Disney+'s - Loki (Season 2)

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by Joeker

So Kramer is really the big bad of the MCU?

LOL! Sorry, I meant Nathaniel Richards.

[Rodney-2187]

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Joeker

So Kramer is really the big bad of the MCU?

If Julia Louis-Dreyfus can be Madame Hydra....

[John1701D]

Originally Posted by Rodney-2187

I don't think it's all about choice. The TVA shows up to eliminate whatever is different if that difference is enough to create an alternate time that will eventually lead to another iteration of Nathaniel Richards. This all leads to the real world debates of multiple universes and free will. That's why I think Loki is extremely well written. Loki is skeptical of the TVA from the very beginning and mentions free will more than once.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the bottom line here causing the confusion is the whole "there's only one timeline" thing. There's clearly other timelines going on uninterrupted UNLESS and until a variation occurs that would lead to another Nathaniel Richards, then the tva steps in.

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by John1701D

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the bottom line here causing the confusion is the whole "there's only one timeline" thing. There's clearly other timelines going on uninterrupted UNLESS and until a variation occurs that would lead to another Nathaniel Richards, then the tva steps in.

[John1701D]

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by John1701D

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the bottom line here causing the confusion is the whole "there's only one timeline" thing. There's clearly other timelines going on uninterrupted UNLESS and until a variation occurs that would lead to another Nathaniel Richards, then the tva steps in.

I think if you have multiple universes and time travel, what are we really saying?

Is there more than one timeline now? Was there more than one timeline in the past? If something ever existed then does it essentially always exist if we can travel through realities.

Is time a circle? Is the multiverse war Sylvie just started the same multiverse war that has already occurred?

[John1701D]

Originally Posted by Rodney-2187

I think if you have multiple universes and time travel, what are we really saying?

Is there more than one timeline now? Was there more than one timeline in the past? If something ever existed then does it essentially always exist if we can travel through realities.

Is time a circle? Is the multiverse war Sylvie just started the same multiverse war that has already occurred?

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by Rodney-2187

I think if you have multiple universes and time travel, what are we really saying?

Is there more than one timeline now? Was there more than one timeline in the past? If something ever existed then does it essentially always exist if we can travel through realities.

Is time a circle? Is the multiverse war Sylvie just started the same multiverse war that has already occurred?

Yes which is why he mentioned reincarnation.

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by John1701D

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

This thread is becoming a real panda-monium!

[danman227460]

Take classic Loki. Is he actually Loki up until Thanos killed him where Loki dies but Classic Loki lives on in hiding in a branched timeline. Or is he still in the sacred timeline? Since he was in hiding and not disrupting the sacred timeline, he was left alone. It was only when he went out of hiding, it caused issues with the timeline as he was never suppose to exist anymore.

Originally Posted by John1701D

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the bottom line here causing the confusion is the whole "there's only one timeline" thing. There's clearly other timelines going on uninterrupted UNLESS and until a variation occurs that would lead to another Nathaniel Richards, then the tva steps in.

[Stationary Explorer]

I've had a headache since "Endgame" and it's only getting worse! I WAS TOLD THERE WOULD BE NO MATH.

How about something simple for a change, like Spidey stopping some bank robbers or apprehending an arsonist? Oh, but the arsonist is actually a Peter Parker variant from Earth-917 and in that universe Kang has an eye patch and walks with a limp and....

AGHGHGHHGHHGGHGH!!! *jumps out window*

[Dynamo of Eternia]

I have to be honest while all of the Disney+ shows so far and the Black Widow movie had their moments, so far MCU Phase 4 has largely been very "meh" in my opinion.

Out of the Disney+ shows, I probably enjoyed WandaVision the most. And that's mostly because I'm a sucker for old sitcoms, and I like the way the show evolved into different sitcoms from over the decades and even did their own spin on sitcom tropes like children mysteriously aging by several years between seasons.

I also LOVED that they brought in Evan Peters as Quicksilver. That blew my mind when he first showed up!

But as the season progressed, it's not that it ended "badly," but it still kind of fizzled out a bit for me. I was also disappointed when it was revealed that Even Peters character apparently wasn't actually "the" Quicksilver from the X-Men movies, but was just some other character entirely that was put in that "role."



With both Falcon and The Winter Soldier and now Loki, neither of these shows had stories that actually required 6 one-hour-long episodes to tell in an effective manner.

Not that these needed to be high-budget theatrical films, but each of these stories easily could have easily been a 2-hour movie (even if made for Disney+) or just 2 or 3 one-hour episodes instead of 6.

From a writing and story telling perspective, when you look at all the the characters, threads and plot elements that they were able to effectively weave together in Infinity War and Endgame, and not have either of those movies turn into a complete mess (IMO Infinity War was the better of the two films, but nitpicks aside, Endgame is still damn impressive all things considered), there's no reason why these comparatively simpler stories with fewer characters and plot threads "need" this total running time to get the point across.

Instead, these feel like stories that they've purposely stretched out and added a lot of "filler" to so they can drop a new episode each week and keep people signed up for Disney+ to keep watching them.


If they at least did something clever to justify the running time / number of episodes, I could understand it.

By comparison, while the two seasons so far of The Manadlorian can be simply summed up as "Mando needs to deliver The Child to a Jedi," all of the side quests and tangents along the way made sense, and it felt like the running time was "earned" far more so than has been the case with these MCU shows. I'm not saying it was perfect, but in my opinion it was a hell of a lot better.

So that combined with Black Widow, a movie that not only should have been made before Infinity War, but that, regardless of the timing of its release, is IMO one of the most bland theatrical film offerings from the MCU so far (it would be pretty close to the bottom of my ranking of all of the MCU films if I were to put them all in order from best to worst), Phase 4 really has been pretty disappointing.

I like Black Widow a lot in the other movies. I think there was A LOT of potential in giving the character her own movie, but they waisted that potential. In terms of tone and style, it probably should have been more similar to something like "Captain America: The Winter Soldier." I'm not saying it should have been the exact same story. But having it be more similar to that than the very generic, bland action movie this turned out to be would have been a huge improvement.


I hope some of these other movies coming out will be better. As it is, they are leaning more into obscure titular characters. While they did that with the likes of Guardians and Antman, those were still intermixed with more familiar titles, and also ended up largely being pleasant surprises.

I hope these other films also end up being pleasant surprises, but the trailers and teasers are not exciting me so far, and the quality of the Phase 4 content that has been released as of now is not really giving me much hope.

Right now I'm mostly excited for Spider-Man No Way Home (given the all-but-confirmed rumors of what is happening with it) and to a lesser extent the next Doctor Strange movie. But even those I'm going in with a sense of cautious optimism, given that the people overseeing them are also overseeing the rest of this mediocrity that we've gotten this year.

IMO they really need to do something about the quality of the content they are releasing and give the audience something to get pumped about. With fan favorite characters like Iron Man/Tony Stark and Steve Rogers/Captain America being out of the picture, they really NEED some "home runs" early in Phase 4 to grab the attention of fans and keep them interested going forward. So far they haven't even made it to "first base" as far as I am concerned.

[isolar801]

A race of Alligators couldn't fashion that cute yellow helmet LokiGator was wearing....non-dexterous hands without opposable thumbs. They would have never evolved past the swamp age.

[isolar801]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I hope these other films also end up being pleasant surprises, but the trailers and teasers are not exciting me so far, and the quality of the Phase 4 content that has been released as of now is not really giving me much hope.

"Float to the top or sink to the bottom. Everything in the middle is the churn." Amos Burton

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by isolar801

A race of Alligators couldn't fashion that cute yellow helmet LokiGator was wearing....non-dexterous hands without opposable thumbs. They would have never evolved past the swamp age.

I will say, Alligator Loki was one of my favorite things about this show! I loved the scene when he bites the hand of the 'other' Tom Hiddleston Loki (who I wish we had gotten to see more of).

My wife even said that she wants a stuffed toy of Alligator Loki!

[John1701D]

Originally Posted by isolar801

A race of Alligators couldn't fashion that cute yellow helmet LokiGator was wearing....non-dexterous hands without opposable thumbs. They would have never evolved past the swamp age.

You're reaching with this one and you know it. It was never stated to be "a race of alligators".

[John1701D]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

This thread is becoming a real panda-monium!

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by danman227460

Take classic Loki. Is he actually Loki up until Thanos killed him where Loki dies but Classic Loki lives on in hiding in a branched timeline. Or is he still in the sacred timeline? Since he was in hiding and not disrupting the sacred timeline, he was left alone. It was only when he went out of hiding, it caused issues with the timeline as he was never suppose to exist anymore.

Classic Loki IS Loki-Prime....except he doesn't die, he hides whilst a mirage dies instead.

Then he instantly isolates himself.

His timeline and the sacred timeline are indistinguishable because Loki is considered dead on both (seperate timelines, but veeeeery close together), until Classic Loki get's bored, comes out of hiding, turning his branch into one of those massive branches seen on the TVA boards and instantly outing his universe as a variant.

He is pruned.

So in theory if the Loki 2012 variant manages to survive all of this, he should eventually become Richard E Grant, which is marvellous.

Originally Posted by isolar801

A race of Alligators couldn't fashion that cute yellow helmet LokiGator was wearing....non-dexterous hands without opposable thumbs. They would have never evolved past the swamp age.

Infinite Universes, Infinite possibilities.

For all you know Alligator Loki lives in a time where magical crowns appear out of mid air