Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Just look at gaming for an example of how it could go.

Sure, let's look at gaming. Mobile gaming now accounts for a little more than half of worldwide gaming revenue but it's done so without cannibalizing either PC or console revenues. Over the past ten years not only have PC gaming and console gaming not declined, they've both posted modest growth.

The game industry has basically doubled in size over the past decade or so and none of that growth was at the expense of existing platforms.

It's pretty remarkable, really.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Sure, let's look at gaming. Mobile gaming now accounts for a little more than half of worldwide gaming revenue but it's done so without cannibalizing either PC or console revenues. Over the past ten years not only have PC gaming and console gaming not declined, they've both posted modest growth.

The game industry has basically doubled in size over the past decade or so and none of that growth was at the expense of existing platforms.

It's pretty remarkable, really.

Mobile is the strongest growth and that’s BEFORE gaming phones and the quite recent ability to run AAA game’s at good framerstes. Fortnite and PUBG are going to be game changers and already there has been rapid growth over the last year. The writing is on the wall.

Mobile gaming has made a impact on console gaming. Many companies have jumped ship and now the risk of a flop in the console market (from a big budget title) has grave consequences. The free to play model is even creeping into the console model. Next gen will see gamers able to play on any device at (very likely) inferior resolution. nowhere is safe from the degrading quality effect. Film, games, music etc. Yeah, isn’t digital wonderful! You can game on your phone now with touchscreen direction pads!

And I think to myself........what a wonderful world!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

And I think to myself........what a wonderful world!

I can agree with this much. It is a wonderful world.

I recognize you were being sarcastic, but I am not. More entertainment choices are welcome as far as I am concerned. None of my current entertainment favorites are in danger of disappearing. There is nothing to worry about here, just more to potentially enjoy.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Mobile is the strongest growth and that’s BEFORE gaming phones and the quite recent ability to run AAA game’s at good framerstes. Fortnite and PUBG are going to be game changers and already there has been rapid growth over the last year. The writing is on the wall.

Mobile gaming has made a impact on console gaming. Many companies have jumped ship and now the risk of a flop in the console market (from a big budget title) has grave consequences. The free to play model is even creeping into the console model. Next gen will see gamers able to play on any device at (very likely) inferior resolution. nowhere is safe from the degrading quality effect. Film, games, music etc. Yeah, isn’t digital wonderful! You can game on your phone now with touchscreen direction pads!

And I think to myself........what a wonderful world!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Vilya

There is nothing to worry about here, just more to potentially enjoy.

I couldn't agree more. This is a really incredible time.

We've got Star Trek style tablets, Dick Tracy wrist watches, huge flat panel displays, terabytes of data that we can slip into our pockets and it's all getting smaller (or bigger) and faster and better every time we blink.

All that's missing is jet packs and hovercars.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by octagon

I couldn't agree more. This is a really incredible time.

We've got Star Trek style tablets, Dick Tracy wrist watches, huge flat panel displays, terabytes of data that we can slip into our pockets and it's all getting smaller (or bigger) and faster and better every time we blink.

All that's missing is jet packs and hovercars.

https://zapata.com/air-products/flyboardair

Yes, it’s real.

[stonesfan129]

I will go to digital entirely when I can download the stuff as a non-DRM file (like you can with music) and the quality matches or gets where it's indistinguishable from the disc. I think music is at that point. Movies are not quite there yet.

[Steedeel]

Depends if you want 4k or not. Dont be suprised if Netflix and Amazon, Itunes etc.. Phase out 4k in the coming years. As caps and NN hit, a 1080p HDR image is waaaaay less bitrate than a 4K HDR image and i can see HDR being used as a buzzword to (imo) hide the fact 4k will be shelved. 4k disc in this (very likely) scenario will be essential. I suspect streaming will settle into 1080p HDR within a few short years.

[handcraftedbits]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I will go to digital entirely when I can download the stuff as a non-DRM file (like you can with music) and the quality matches or gets where it's indistinguishable from the disc. I think music is at that point. Movies are not quite there yet.

Yep, that's the only way I'd consider purchasing a title from a "digital-only" service. I'm not sure movie studios will go for it though, my understanding of the music situation is not so much that label heads woke up one day and decided that DRM was bad but rather that iTunes practically owned the market and they got the old "my way or the highway" treatment. The market for streaming video (and music even) is much larger than any one player at this point, so I don't see studios feeling like they have no choice but to follow the whims of the market leader this time around.

I highly encourage folks with the means to buy a large NAS and rip their physical collections. With Plex you can basically build your own streaming service that only serves up the highest quality video and audio (assuming you don't re-compress), and of course it's all DRM-free . It's expensive and time-consuming, but well worth it.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Depends if you want 4k or not. Dont be suprised if Netflix and Amazon, Itunes etc.. Phase out 4k in the coming years. As caps and NN hit, a 1080p HDR image is waaaaay less bitrate than a 4K HDR image and i can see HDR being used as a buzzword to (imo) hide the fact 4k will be shelved. 4k disc in this (very likely) scenario will be essential. I suspect streaming will settle into 1080p HDR within a few short years.

You're completely gone now. You just sound delusional.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Depends if you want 4k or not. Dont be suprised if Netflix and Amazon, Itunes etc.. Phase out 4k in the coming years. As caps and NN hit, a 1080p HDR image is waaaaay less bitrate than a 4K HDR image and i can see HDR being used as a buzzword to (imo) hide the fact 4k will be shelved. 4k disc in this (very likely) scenario will be essential. I suspect streaming will settle into 1080p HDR within a few short years.

As more and more people buy 4k televisions, more people will want to take advantage of their 4k televisions. This is a good reason for 4k streaming to stay. I doubt anyone buys a 4k television that does not want to feed it 4k content. 4k televisions in the household are becoming more common. Everytime I see a customer walk out with a television bought from Best Buy and Fry's, it's a 4k set since a year ago.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PCFan

As more and more people buy 4k televisions, more people will want to take advantage of their 4k televisions. This is a good reason for 4k streaming to stay. 4k televisions in the household are becoming more common. Everytime I see a customer walk out with a television from Best Buy, it's a 4k set since a year ago.

He changes his stance every 2 weeks. 1080 HDR is a combination I had never even heard of or seen mentioned together until I did a bit of googling.

JULY 4TH

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Umm, I correctly predicted the demise of UV and the Disney service replacing it, I correctly predicted the rise of streaming at the EXPENSE of Digital HD, I correctly predicted that streaming is just the new cable etc.

Speaking of that, I read Netflix is going to charge more for HDR 4K. It’s not being reported as a price hike but according to some trials in Italy, people on the standard pack will lose the option to stream to two devices, effectively forcing a family to move to the $13.99 option to get more than one stream. Worse still, it is strongly rumoured that the most expensive tier ($16.99) will be the ONLY package that allows four streams at the same time. The days of cheap streaming are over, by 2020 I predict the top package will be $20. Of course the cheapest package will be the SD only single stream, anyone see where this is going? Like, you know, what Steed has been telling you lot for years. Digital is about convenience and NOTHING else. SD will be the order of the day.

JULY 20TH

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Those will be advanced codecs that Netflix use though, no? It won’t be long before 4K uses only half the bit rate it does now. Don’t get me wrong, I’m Die hard disc, but Netflix has impressed me with the picture it produces from such low bit rates.

Also, now that Netflix will probably charge the max subscription for 4K HDR, they will need to deliver to pay for all that new content.

Having said all that, 4K will be the absolute cap for quality, even way into the future.

And today

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Depends if you want 4k or not. Dont be suprised if Netflix and Amazon, Itunes etc.. Phase out 4k in the coming years. As caps and NN hit, a 1080p HDR image is waaaaay less bitrate than a 4K HDR image and i can see HDR being used as a buzzword to (imo) hide the fact 4k will be shelved. 4k disc in this (very likely) scenario will be essential. I suspect streaming will settle into 1080p HDR within a few short years.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

He changes his stance every 2 weeks. 1080 HDR is a combination I had never even heard of or seen mentioned together until I did a bit of googling.

JULY 4TH


JULY 20TH




And today





Steedeel really is the Trump of this subforum

Things are constantly shifting in the entertainment world. I bet discussions have already began about 1080p HDR. It makes perfect sense when 4K is going to eat into data allowances. You only need around 10Mbps for 1080p HDR. It isn’t much more than a standard full HD stream.

I said that 4K is the absolute limit, I didn’t say it wouldn’t go below that.

Also, I am impressed with their 4K feed, but that is irrelevant to what I said.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PCFan

As more and more people buy 4k televisions, more people will want to take advantage of their 4k televisions. This is a good reason for 4k streaming to stay. I doubt anyone buys a 4k television that does not want to feed it 4k content. 4k televisions in the household are becoming more common. Everytime I see a customer walk out with a television bought from Best Buy and Fry's, it's a 4k set since a year ago.

People buy 4K tv because they have no choice. 90 percent of people are perfectly happy to watch upscaled 1080p on it. Heck, 90 percent of people probably watched SD on their 1080p sets a few short years ago. How many people did we use to hear about who were watching DVD on their full HD set? I bet it’s in the tens of millions at the very least. I doubt most would even notice if they were watching SD on cable.

HDR on a 4K set at 1080p will be more than enough to convince people they are watching good quality image. Even then, when watching a film, some will be zooming in to lose the bars!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

You're completely gone now. You just sound delusional.

Let’s see then. Don’t forget we are going to have fast lanes pretty soon. Whoever gets left behind isn’t going to be able to stream 4K for starters.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by flyry

1080 HDR is a combination I had never even heard of or seen mentioned together until I did a bit of googling.

Just follow the dollar signs, if there is a dollar to be made then someone will make product available. When ATSC 3.0 comes online it will render that expensive 4K TV's builtin tuner useless because ATSC uses 8VSB modulation and ATSC 3 will use COFDM modulation. I'm sure the converter box industry is already getting prepared .

At this point I don't believe the ATSC committee folks have settled on a HDR methodology but I would not be surprised if they included 1080 HDR in the standard. H.265 has been chosen as the video compression standard.

[The_Donster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2gA...ature=youtu.be

Good news everyone. TVs will be even larger in the future

[The_Donster]

In side news. ETex came out and installed cable and internet. They are indeed using Cat 5 cable and it is a bit more streamlined set up. Cable still looks like crap, but tested out Netflix and the picture still makes me want to cry it looks so good. Now I need to get my BD player set up so I can enjoy the best of both worlds

[Vilya]

4K content for our 4K TVs will continue to be offered via disc, digital, and subscription streaming. I can not agree with any prediction that says any of these will cease to exist nor do I like such alarmist claims.

The end of Net Neutrality almost certainly will not benefit the consumer, but people have become so dependent upon their internet service that they will continue to pay for it and many will want the best it can provide. Even though 35% of American adults still lack broadband service, that still means 65% have it. Even I can stream in 4K, when my ISP cooperates, and I do stream 4K youtube shorts. I still plan to create a Vudu account and try out a few 4K rentals.

Long form content, 4K content, both disc and digital, and big screen displays are all safe. You can enjoy them to your heart's content.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Long form content, 4K content, both disc and digital, and big screen displays are all safe. You can enjoy them to your heart's content.

Back in the 80's folks were predicting that front screen projectors would disappear because of the demise of Kloss Video (I had a Model 1A Novabeam at the time). Here we are in 2018 with (true) 4K video projectors and some using laser-phosphor light engines. Is it a niche market product, why yes, has been, is and most likely will continue to be. But there is money to be made so product will be available.