Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

$699 for what amounts to nothing more than a proprietary hard drive was ridiculous, IMO.

True, but at the time it was about the only way to get UHD content (I paid less than $500). Netflix started with UHD House of Cards in the spring/summer of 2014. UHD BD was not released till March 2016. I can’t believe folks did not pickup on this to rag me several post back even tho I left some bread trails for them. Anyway, I refused to buy the Samsung UHD BD player because of NR that could not be turned off and no discrete On Off IR codes so I waited on Oppo and Sony.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Streaming service providers routinely recommend an internet service that can deliver download speeds that are about 56% higher, or more, than the maximum streaming bitrates they provide. Streaming service bitrate x 1.56= minimum recommended internet speed.

Recently checked a VUDU HDX stream via a Windows 10 Pro 64 computer and the bit rate would peak at 24Mbps but the average is much lower. If the content of the program stream is 16Mbps then the mux of that stream could be a fair amount higher because of FEC and other overhead data.

If folks want to bone up on FEC then click here and take your pick .

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

True, but at the time it was about the only way to get UHD content (I paid less than $500). Netflix started with UHD House of Cards in the spring/summer of 2014. UHD BD was not released till March 2016. I can’t believe folks did not pickup on this to rag me several post back even tho I left some bread trails for them. Anyway, I refused to buy the Samsung UHD BD player because of NR that could not be turned off and no discrete On Off IR codes so I waited on Oppo and Sony.

Early adoption carries a high price; I know this all too well.

I once paid $850 for a 4 head Hi-Fi VCR in 1987 when Hi-Fi sound was all the rage; that's $1,885.61 in today's dollars.

I paid $1,100 in 1997 for a Pioneer portable DVD player (PDV-LC10) with a then amazing 7" screen. That's $1,727.14 in today's dollars. I still own this player and it still works the last time I checked- a very small consolation for the massive amount of money spent.

There are more examples of shrewd buying decisions that I could share, but recalling more would be too depressing. I have paid the tax many, many times.


A real beauty, no? Check out those stereo speakers!

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Like I said, there are a lot of variables that go into Streaming now. Let's see if The Donster can give us some of the Bitrates he is seeing. I was talking to my ISP because I was getting Buffering trying to Stream 4K from Vudu with their new Beta App, the old App works fine for HDX. The feeling is that 4K Streaming Providers are running into Bandwidth problems, because demand is growing for 4K Content.

I’ll be honest, I’ve no idea how to check my bitrates on my devices? Sadly, outside of my son’s set up in his room all I’ve got hooked up is my KS 8000 in the front room for now. So not sure how much information I can provide? Anyway, for shits and giggles I ran a connection speed though Netflix. On 2.4 ghz I’m pulling in around 33 Mbps and on 5 ghz it is 56.21 Mbps.

I’ll most likely leave it on the 5 ghz. Since that’s how I had it set up in our old house. Prime and VUDU only show that an HHDR/UHD are playing on my 4K stuff, HD/HDX on the rest. Outside of the nerd stats I don’t know what to look for on YouTube. More than happy to look for more info if anyone wants to give me some bread crumbs.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

I’ll be honest, I’ve no idea how to check my bitrates on my devices? Sadly, outside of my son’s set up in his room all I’ve got hooked up is my KS 8000 in the front room for now. So not sure how much information I can provide? Anyway, for shits and giggles I ran a connection speed though Netflix. On 2.4 ghz I’m pulling in around 33 Mbps and on 5 ghz it is 56.21 Mbps.

I’ll most likely leave it on the 5 ghz. Since that’s how I had it set up in our old house. Prime and VUDU only show that an HHDR/UHD are playing on my 4K stuff, HD/HDX on the rest. Outside of the nerd stats I don’t know what to look for on YouTube. More than happy to look for more info if anyone wants to give me some bread crumbs.

My internet connection speeds are still 80 Mbps down and 10 Mbps up, but now my ping is high at 46 ms. My ISP just can't get everything right all at the same time. I cancelled Netflix, again, so I can not test my internet connection thru it. I keep adding, and dropping, Netflix as I bore of it so fast. When season 3 of Stranger Things finally starts, I will add it still again. I'm so fickle.

Your new avatar is interesting; what is it from?

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

I’ll be honest, I’ve no idea how to check my bitrates on my devices? Sadly, outside of my son’s set up in his room all I’ve got hooked up is my KS 8000 in the front room for now. So not sure how much information I can provide? Anyway, for shits and giggles I ran a connection speed though Netflix. On 2.4 ghz I’m pulling in around 33 Mbps and on 5 ghz it is 56.21 Mbps.

I’ll most likely leave it on the 5 ghz. Since that’s how I had it set up in our old house. Prime and VUDU only show that an HHDR/UHD are playing on my 4K stuff, HD/HDX on the rest. Outside of the nerd stats I don’t know what to look for on YouTube. More than happy to look for more info if anyone wants to give me some bread crumbs.

Thanks The Donster, too many people hang their hats on these Bitrates, when it should just be the Quality of what we are viewing and listening too. I feel like you do, the Streaming Quality is only going to get better. Everyone is jumping on the Streaming Band Wagon, and now even the Gamers. Here is a Link to the DSLReports main page, where Streaming and Fiber are the main topics:

https://www.dslreports.com/

Google is getting back into the game, with their Super PON Fiber. Like I said, that rude awakening is coming fast. Most people just don't realize Bandwidth and Streaming go hand in hand. I was talking to my ISP, they have been doing some upgrades getting ready for more Bandwidth on our Fiber Network, and ties to the Fiber Backbone. They said that 4K Streaming Providers are running into problems with Bandwidth. So like anything else the weak ones will fade away, and only the ones that can deliver High Quality Content will survive. Those Streaming Providers that try to cut corners and use Poor Codec and Low Bitrates will fail!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Thanks The Donster, too many people hang their hats on these Bitrates, when it should just be the Quality of what we are viewing and listening too. I feel like you do, the Streaming Quality is only going to get better. Everyone is jumping on the Streaming Band Wagon, and now even the Gamers. Here is a Link to the DSLReports main page, where Streaming and Fiber are the main topics:

https://www.dslreports.com/

Google is getting back into the game, with their Super PON Fiber. Like I said, that rude awakening is coming fast. Most people just don't realize Bandwidth and Streaming go hand in hand. I was talking to my ISP, they have been doing some upgrades getting ready for more Bandwidth on our Fiber Network, and ties to the Fiber Backbone. They said that 4K Streaming Providers are running into problems with Bandwidth. So like anything else the weak ones will fade away, and only the ones that can deliver High Quality Content will survive. Those Streaming Providers that try to cut corners and use Poor Codec and Low Bitrates will fail!

You are right about one thing, that rude awakening.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

I’ll be honest, I’ve no idea how to check my bitrates on my devices? Sadly, outside of my son’s set up in his room all I’ve got hooked up is my KS 8000 in the front room for now. So not sure how much information I can provide? Anyway, for shits and giggles I ran a connection speed though Netflix. On 2.4 ghz I’m pulling in around 33 Mbps and on 5 ghz it is 56.21 Mbps.

I’ll most likely leave it on the 5 ghz. Since that’s how I had it set up in our old house. Prime and VUDU only show that an HHDR/UHD are playing on my 4K stuff, HD/HDX on the rest. Outside of the nerd stats I don’t know what to look for on YouTube. More than happy to look for more info if anyone wants to give me some bread crumbs.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I can't find any article that shows Netflix streaming above 16 Mbps. Are your results simply an internet connection speed result, wireless or wired, or an actual streamed content bitrate?

Even this Jan. 2018 article, the latest I found, says Netflix is just 16 Mbps. I cancelled my Netflix, so I can not do any testing myself. A quick glance at the Roku forums says the same thing: 16Mbps.

https://www.howtogeek.com/338983/how...s-netflix-use/

On a side note, your new avatar is interesting. What's it from?

Highlighted the part you missed Vilya. I went into the settings -> get help -> check your network -> enter. Then it goes into 3 servers and internet connection to give the results.

On the other point you made, I’m able to go into the 123 (information) on my remote and it is showing 15.26 Mbps, but I pulled in closer to 17 a few nights ago.

All this doesn’t concern me as long as I’m seeing/hearing the results though. Which is why I’ll continue to support both.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Bitrates matter. It is why even professional DP's say so. Quality and bitrates are directly related. It is used to compare all content sources for the simple reason that they are that relevant.

I do not believe that any streaming content provider will intentionally lower the quality of their service. It makes no sense for them to do so.

Continue sticking your head in the sand.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Highlighted the part you missed Vilya. I went into the settings -> get help -> check your network -> enter. Then it goes into 3 servers and internet connection to give the results.

On the other point you made, I’m able to go into the 123 (information) on my remote and it is showing 15.26 Mbps, but I pulled in closer to 17 a few nights ago.

All this doesn’t concern me as long as I’m seeing/hearing the results though. Which is why I’ll continue to support both.

Yeah, I am having trouble kickstarting my brain today. I was playing video games until 4 AM like a damn fool and now my mind is in a fog. More caffeine will fix it. I deleted, and replaced, that post that is now enshrined in your quote.

How about that new avatar? What's it from?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Continue sticking your head in the sand.

I prefer my head to be in the sand than where yours seems to be permanently lodged.

I do not rely upon streaming, so I am not affected by what level of service they offer.

I do not believe that a single one of your dreadful predictions will come true. Not one. Even if they do, I have a substantial collection already that only continues to grow that insulates me from these bleak visions of yours. More importantly, my (mostly) rational mind tells me that your nucking futs as far as your predictions are concerned.

Again, I ask you, do you see anything positive about the future? All of your forecasts to date are dark, dire, and depressing. I just don't think like that and I certainly won't live like that.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Your new avatar is interesting; what is it from?

Thanks. It is stylized picture of me drinking my first beer here in Childress Texas a few months back. Some app on Facebook did it off of my actual picture and I liked it. So I made it my avatar.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Thanks. It is stylized picture of me drinking my first beer here in Childress Texas a few months back. Some app on Facebook did it off of my actual picture and I liked it. So I made it my avatar.

That is just super A big

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Thanks The Donster, too many people hang their hats on these Bitrates, when it should just be the Quality of what we are viewing and listening too. I feel like you do, the Streaming Quality is only going to get better. Everyone is jumping on the Streaming Band Wagon, and now even the Gamers. Here is a Link to the DSLReports main page, where Streaming and Fiber are the main topics:

https://www.dslreports.com/

Google is getting back into the game, with their Super PON Fiber. Like I said, that rude awakening is coming fast. Most people just don't realize Bandwidth and Streaming go hand in hand. I was talking to my ISP, they have been doing some upgrades getting ready for more Bandwidth on our Fiber Network, and ties to the Fiber Backbone. They said that 4K Streaming Providers are running into problems with Bandwidth. So like anything else the weak ones will fade away, and only the ones that can deliver High Quality Content will survive. Those Streaming Providers that try to cut corners and use Poor Codec and Low Bitrates will fail!

Bitrates matter. It is why even professional DP's say so. Quality and bitrates are directly related. It is used to compare all content sources for the simple reason that they are that relevant.

You, yourself, have talked about the importance of bitrates extensively. Until now, anyways. As you can find no evidence to support your beliefs about Sony Ultra's bitrates, these bitrates are now conveniently unimportant.

I do not believe that any streaming content provider will intentionally lower the quality of their service. It makes no sense for them to do so. I think we agree on that much.

[Vilya]

I stumbled across this curiosity:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=562

A digital code, by itself, gets its own steelbook! Tangible packaging for a non-tangible item- makes perfect sense. Only humans would design collectible packaging for non-physical items.

I'm not bothered by it, but it makes me and smh at the same time.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I stumbled across this curiosity:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=562

A digital code, by itself, gets its own steelbook! Tangible packaging for a non-tangible item- makes perfect sense. Only humans would design collectible packaging for non-physical items.

I'm not bothered by it, but it makes me and smh at the same time.

Don't laugh Vilya, Digital is coming......Like I said, the Rude Awakening!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Don't laugh Vilya, Digital is coming......Like I said, the Rude Awakening!

Like I said, it will be. For anyone thinking they can have HQ.

[flyry]

It was simply a free comicon giveaway.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Don't laugh Vilya, Digital is coming......Like I said, the Rude Awakening!

Ummm.... digital streaming is already here. And if it was half as wonderful as you seem to think, what would be rude about it?

Where we differ is that you think digital streaming is all there will be at some vague point in the future. I, along with many others, instead say that both physical media and digital streaming will continue to coexist. The former for the quality minded and the latter for the convenience minded.

According to our resident doomsayer, the rude awakening will be yours when digital streaming reverses itself into ever lower quality. Yep, according to him (and him alone), all of that increased bandwidth coming from your ISP will avail you not a thing as he predicts that streaming is headed for a quality nosedive. You and him will be streaming in 480p, but with HDR, on your smartphones.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

It was simply a free comicon giveaway.

Nope; there's something sinister afoot here. Has to be. All new developments mean the end of something near and dear.