Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

We all love our Movies, or else we would not be on this Site talking about them. I love Old Movies, and still have a Collection of Discs. In order to sell your Discs at a Dollar you need a Buyer, and right now they are not even worth that much. I know what you mean about collecting and buying Movies, I would have a gage if I was going to watch a Movie a couple of times I would buy it. I still go by that, but now it's Digital. As for buying in quantity I was referring to Steedeel. Bottom Line is Physical or Digital we love our Movies, and it shouldn't matter on how we View or Collect them!

There is a market for used discs because there are, in fact, buyers for them. If there were no buyers, as you preposterously claim, then the used disc market would cease to exist. I am confident from perusing the used marketplace that I could easily average a dollar, and likely more, per title. That may not be much, but it is far more than the nothing that a used digital code will fetch. Your opinion about this facet of the home entertainment market is so clearly wrong that it barely warrants any consideration except for the absurdity contained in your contention.

I buy 20+ titles on disc per month; does that qualify as buying in quantity? There are many of us avid buyers to be found on this very website alone; my appetite for discs is no where near as voracious as that of many of our forum members. People buy movies on disc; the industry supplies movies on disc; Obviously, people want movies on disc. Supply meets demand.

How we view and collect our movies does matter; we each have our own criteria, naturally. I have stated my criteria and you have done the same. The only thing that ultimately matters is that we are happy with our choices.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The question for me is how can I call myself a film fan and not have any popcorn on hand AND over the weekend no less?

I’m currently asking myself that, but in my case it is bourbon. I’m going to have to slum it and drink rum tonight

[Vilya]

Forum member ChadGregory posted a link to this CNET article about the "deleted movies" controversy. It sheds some new light on the matter. It appears that the customer in question changed his iTunes region from Australia to Canada and the problems ensued from that change. The article explains it in more detail:

https://www.cnet.com/news/no-apple-d...ally-happened/

ChadGregory's original post:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=106

[Mobe1969]

I don't understand why digital DOWNLOADS aren't a thing, other than some stuff, and nothing 4k. I can't stand streaming and am constantly disappointed with it, both the 60hz rubbish, where frame rates are xxxxed up, to quality degredation, to no control on anything like audio etc. I hate it. I finished watching a uhd on my 4k projector today, and as my cat was sleeping on my lap I decided to have a look on my Apple TV 4k something on Netflix or Amazon prime. I started on prime, with a,4k hdr title, that was only on blu Ray. And first up the compression and resolution started as an abomination with the Amazon logo, then got A bit better, then about 5 minutes in the resolution dropped and I gave up. And went and ordered the Blu Ray. Then I changed to Netflix. And it was a the series, and it was jerky like 60 hz source so I needed to change the Apple TV to 60hz. I did, but didn't like the pic quality and gave up. Then I tried watching a movie. I got sick of the quality as well, but the movie was interesting. So I actually stopped and ordered it on Blu Ray.

If I had actual downloads, where I could download full iso quality titles, with Atmos, with h4k hdr, with an actual frame rate MATCHING THE SOURCE, I'd be in on it.

But no. We have steaming, which is just an abomination to a videophile. Xxxx streaming.

[alchav21]

Tell us your set up and Bandwidth.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Tell us your set up and Bandwidth.

Irrelevant. Everyone should be able to enjoy top quality HT, not just people with fibre and great connections. Too many hoops.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Forum member ChadGregory posted a link to this CNET article about the "deleted movies" controversy. It sheds some new light on the matter. It appears that the customer in question changed his iTunes region from Australia to Canada and the problems ensued from that change. The article explains it in more detail:

https://www.cnet.com/news/no-apple-d...ally-happened/

ChadGregory's original post:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=106

The ‘not bothered’ attitude speaks volumes regardless. It’s only a matter of time.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

If I had actual downloads, where I could download full iso quality titles, with Atmos, with h4k hdr, with an actual frame rate MATCHING THE SOURCE, I'd be in on it.

In the US there is Kaleidescape that can do this, info here. Be prepared for sticker shock for hardware and software.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

I don't understand why digital DOWNLOADS aren't a thing, other than some stuff, and nothing 4k.

In the US Sony did provide a 4K rental and own movie service via the FMP-X1 and FMP-X10 media players. I owned the FMP-X10 for a few years but sold it when I procured the Oppo UDP-203 and Sony UBP-X800 UHD Blu-ray players. Sony shut down the servers last December for the FMP devices. Most users of the FMP complained about the very long times required to download a single movie.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Irrelevant. Everyone should be able to enjoy top quality HT, not just people with fibre and great connections. Too many hoops.

Do tell Steedeel

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The ‘not bothered’ attitude speaks volumes regardless. It’s only a matter of time.

Not bothered? The internet lost its shit over something that didn't even happen.

[zarquon]

Originally Posted by octagon

Not bothered? The internet lost its shit over something that didn't even happen.

Well, it didn't happen in the way that was originally assumed, and the reality is less outrageous, but the guy did still lose those movies, for no other reason than moving from one country to another. That wouldn't happen with a physical disc.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Forum member ChadGregory posted a link to this CNET article about the "deleted movies" controversy. It sheds some new light on the matter. It appears that the customer in question changed his iTunes region from Australia to Canada and the problems ensued from that change. The article explains it in more detail:

https://www.cnet.com/news/no-apple-d...ally-happened/

ChadGregory's original post:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=106

I knew there had to be more to this story, but sensationalists already ran with it. I doubt this follow-up gets any tractions as its not good clickbait material

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

I don't understand why digital DOWNLOADS aren't a thing, other than some stuff, and nothing 4k. I can't stand streaming and am constantly disappointed with it, both the 60hz rubbish, where frame rates are xxxxed up, to quality degredation, to no control on anything like audio etc. I hate it. I finished watching a uhd on my 4k projector today, and as my cat was sleeping on my lap I decided to have a look on my Apple TV 4k something on Netflix or Amazon prime. I started on prime, with a,4k hdr title, that was only on blu Ray. And first up the compression and resolution started as an abomination with the Amazon logo, then got A bit better, then about 5 minutes in the resolution dropped and I gave up. And went and ordered the Blu Ray. Then I changed to Netflix. And it was a the series, and it was jerky like 60 hz source so I needed to change the Apple TV to 60hz. I did, but didn't like the pic quality and gave up. Then I tried watching a movie. I got sick of the quality as well, but the movie was interesting. So I actually stopped and ordered it on Blu Ray.

If I had actual downloads, where I could download full iso quality titles, with Atmos, with h4k hdr, with an actual frame rate MATCHING THE SOURCE, I'd be in on it.

But no. We have steaming, which is just an abomination to a videophile. Xxxx streaming.

It comes down to the economics of it. If you want to download a movie at iso level we are talking 50 to 100 gb of storage per movie. You also have to download the movie which means you dont get instant gratification even with good internet thats an hour or more of waiting before the downloads complete. If they arent allowing streaming then you now need to back that movie up to a second or third harddrive and deal with probably really annoying drm the studios insist on having. Since the files are so big perhaps only a couple percent of the people who use digital could use your service do to data caps and bandwidth speeds also.

The end result is to get a iso quality digital movie you need consumers to pay like 100 to 300$ per movie (when you include the equipment internet service and your actual cost to buy the film etc) while physical will cost them way less.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

I decided to have a look on my Apple TV 4k something on Netflix or Amazon prime. I started on prime, with a,4k hdr title, that was only on blu Ray. And first up the compression and resolution started as an abomination with the Amazon logo, then got A bit better, then about 5 minutes in the resolution dropped and I gave up. And went and ordered the Blu Ray. Then I changed to Netflix. And it was a the series, and it was jerky like 60 hz source so I needed to change the Apple TV to 60hz. I did, but didn't like the pic quality and gave up. Then I tried watching a movie. I got sick of the quality as well, but the movie was interesting. So I actually stopped and ordered it on Blu Ray.

If I had actual downloads, where I could download full iso quality titles, with Atmos, with h4k hdr, with an actual frame rate MATCHING THE SOURCE, I'd be in on it.

But no. We have steaming, which is just an abomination to a videophile. Xxxx streaming.

Originally Posted by alchav21

Tell us your set up and Bandwidth.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Irrelevant. Everyone should be able to enjoy top quality HT, not just people with fibre and great connections. Too many hoops.

It's very relevant for Quality Streaming, it got so bad he had to resort to ordering the Discs. We know he was using an Apple TV4K, is it Wireless or Wired at what Bandwidth? Yes you're right everyone should enjoy their HT, but if it includes Streaming set up and Bandwidth are very important. With the new Codec and Adaptive Streaming the Bitrate is adjusted to your Bandwidth, and that could expose weaknesses in your Network.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It's very relevant for Quality Streaming, it got so bad he had to resort to ordering the Discs. We know he was using an Apple TV4K, is it Wireless or Wired at what Bandwidth? Yes you're right everyone should enjoy their HT, but if it includes Streaming set up and Bandwidth are very important. With the new Codec and Adaptive Streaming the Bitrate is adjusted to your Bandwidth, and that could expose weaknesses in your Network.

Non of which you have to worry about with disc. I mean, to me it seems you have to jump through hoops all the time.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Do tell Steedeel

Internet outages, intermittent problems (very common but never acknowledged on here) other family members using bandwidth, having to suffer low resolution if there are any drop outs or other issues, having to tolerate inferior audio and picture quality, relying on poor interfaces, possible data cap issues, restrictions on how much 4K content one can consume, aspect ratio inconsistencies, possibility of content being altered or removed, removal of controversial content on subscription services if a fuss is made on social media, the fact you are abusing your expensive AV setup feeding it crap, etc..



Oh and banding, horrific pixelation on large areas of colour (sometimes) and poor background detail compared to 4K disc and Blu-ray.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It's very relevant for Quality Streaming, it got so bad he had to resort to ordering the Discs. We know he was using an Apple TV4K, is it Wireless or Wired at what Bandwidth? Yes you're right everyone should enjoy their HT, but if it includes Streaming set up and Bandwidth are very important. With the new Codec and Adaptive Streaming the Bitrate is adjusted to your Bandwidth, and that could expose weaknesses in your Network.

Adaptive streaming? Been around for decades hasn’t it? Also, it’s a,ready been explained to you, they want to cut the bit rates not increase them. That’s the target of all subscription services imo. So new codecs mean shaving more bits off not improving the quality.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by veritas

It comes down to the economics of it. If you want to download a movie at iso level we are talking 50 to 100 gb of storage per movie. You also have to download the movie which means you dont get instant gratification even with good internet thats an hour or more of waiting before the downloads complete. If they arent allowing streaming then you now need to back that movie up to a second or third harddrive and deal with probably really annoying drm the studios insist on having. Since the files are so big perhaps only a couple percent of the people who use digital could use your service do to data caps and bandwidth speeds also.

The end result is to get a iso quality digital movie you need consumers to pay like 100 to 300$ per movie (when you include the equipment internet service and your actual cost to buy the film etc) while physical will cost them way less.

Just buy the bloody disc, that’s what I would say. Why look for a problem that doesn’t exist. That’s how I feel anyway.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Not bothered? The internet lost its shit over something that didn't even happen.

It’s happened before, also with music. Well documented.