Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[octagon]

I'm pretty optimistic about physical as well. At absolute worst, I could see an upward pricing trend a few to several years out but even that is pure conjecture.

A few years ago catalog releases were either going to disappear entirely or would relegated to the so-called 'Twilight Time' model of higher priced limited editions and none of that has come to pass.

The catalog market seems to be chugging along quite nicely.

And as long as the catalog market is happy, I'm happy.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know when my Bandwidth falls below 50Mbps my Streaming Degrades.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

If you don’t have streaming problems then how do you know when your speed drops below 50Mbps?

My plan is 25Mbps down and 3Mbps up. Below is a graph from SpeedOfMe. The Cyan trace is download, the Yellow trace is upload speeds. The dips in speed are prime time, when it is up is during the day. The Netflix app speed checks pretty much agrees with the chart. I have checked my speed during prime time using my ISP’s speed test and it shows 23-25Mbps. This clearly shows a problem between the ISP and the internet backbone not between me and the ISP. Or the problem could be a combination of many things (my ISP, CDN’s, peering, etc.) related to the internet.

Well I started off with 15Mbps 5 years ago, then they doubled it and now I'm around 75Mbps. So on the way up I noticed how my Streaming Quality got better, but also when they do maintenance and upgrades and the Speed drops I notice the change. I have an Independant ISP, and I talk to the Main Tech/Owner Scott all the time. I was having problems with the new 4K Vudu App, it was telling me my Bandwidth was not sufficient. When I talked with Scott I told him the only thing I saw was my upload was only half of my download. He said it shouldn't matter, but he would bump it up. It turned out to be the Vudu App and they fixed it. He said the Streaming Providers were getting bombarded and probably didn't have enough capacity. He did talk about peering and CDN's, and he said we were connected to the Backbone through Century Link, and was looking to get more capacity. Yes all this matters on Streaming access, and getting to those Servers.

[Mobe1969]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well I started off with 15Mbps 5 years ago, then they doubled it and now I'm around 75Mbps. So on the way up I noticed how my Streaming Quality got better, but also when they do maintenance and upgrades and the Speed drops I notice the change. I have an Independant ISP, and I talk to the Main Tech/Owner Scott all the time. I was having problems with the new 4K Vudu App, it was telling me my Bandwidth was not sufficient. When I talked with Scott I told him the only thing I saw was my upload was only half of my download. He said it shouldn't matter, but he would bump it up. It turned out to be the Vudu App and they fixed it. He said the Streaming Providers were getting bombarded and probably didn't have enough capacity. He did talk about peering and CDN's, and he said we were connected to the Backbone through Century Link, and was looking to get more capacity. Yes all this matters on Streaming access, and getting to those Servers.

Yeah, I'm more inclined to think the p[oor quality I usually get is more the fault of the Australian hosts for the streaming providers. When I have an issue I do a speed test, and I'm getting above what netflix say for 4k and I'm seeing sub 720p results sometimes. I honestly don't understand technically how they can ever expect to have fat enough pipes all around the planet from them outbound to support people watching random stuff. I'd bet when the quality drops for me it is either them struggling or other infrastructure between me and them that can't handle it. Which is another reason the itunes download (or the smart device download for offline) is a way better idea. It makes me mad that they DON'T allow it for home theater gear, just rubbish small screen viewing. It is insanity.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

It makes me mad that they DON'T allow it for home theater gear, just rubbish small screen viewing. It is insanity.

Years ago when UltraViolet (UV) started in the US they said that interoperability and downloading was coming and would be a feature on hardware products. Here we are many years later with no dedicated hardware supporting UV downloads.

I have downloaded some titles (VUDU) to a PC just to see what it was like. When you start a download it gives you no option as to where to save the title to. It puts your download on the C:\ drive and tries its best to hide the folders from view. If you moved the folders then the files would not play. In order to play the files you must use their app. Looking at the file sizes it appears the downloads is the same, highly compressed, files used for streaming.

[avs commenter]

With Movies Anywhere, you can download a movie to your phone or tablet and watch it later without wifi. I don't know how long it stays on there for though.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

With Movies Anywhere, you can download a movie to your phone or tablet and watch it later without wifi.

UV has had that feature for sometime now but no dedicated hardware ever made it to market with the implied higher quality downloads. The UV site has changed completely so can not provide links.

[Vilya]

I have an anecdote to share that proves nothing on a larger scale, but that I still found to be interesting.

Yesterday, I was browsing one of those large antique flea market consignment shops in a city in a neighboring state and I discovered that many of the sellers had used movies for sale on vhs, dvd, and a small selection of blu-rays. While the prices varied among the different sellers, most of the dvds could be had for $3, the blus for $5, and the vhs tapes were priced at $2 or 3 for $5. One of the sellers priced their vhs tapes at $5 each.

I purchased a novelty Snoopy glass for $2.60, being the big spender that I am, and while doing so I asked the store manager how well the used movies were selling. He said they sold really well. I asked him if that was true of the vhs tapes and he replied that they were very popular, too.

I was surprised that people had any interest in these old vhs tapes, especially as the ones I saw there were of titles that you could readily find on the much superior disc formats. At this one store anyway, even vhs tapes are alive and well. Physical media appears to be more resilient than even I suspected if this one store's experience is any indicator.

On the other hand, if people are still buying vhs tapes it could be said that some people truly don't care about quality- at all. I don't get the interest in vhs tapes, but to each their own.

[Leslie Dame]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have an anecdote to share that proves nothing on a larger scale, but that I still found to be interesting.

Yesterday, I was browsing one of those large antique flea market consignment shops in a city in a neighboring state and I discovered that many of the sellers had used movies for sale on vhs, dvd, and a small selection of blu-rays. While the prices varied among the different sellers, most of the dvds could be had for $3, the blus for $5, and the vhs tapes were priced at $2 or 3 for $5. One of the sellers priced their vhs tapes at $5 each.

I purchased a novelty Snoopy glass for $2.60, being the big spender that I am, and while doing so I asked the store manager how well the used movies were selling. He said they sold really well. I asked him if that was true of the vhs tapes and he replied that they were very popular, too.

I was surprised that people had any interest in these old vhs tapes, especially as the ones I saw there were of titles that you could readily find on the much superior disc formats. At this one store anyway, even vhs tapes are alive and well. Physical media appears to be more resilient than even I suspected if this one store's experience is any indicator.

On the other hand, if people are still buying vhs tapes it could be said that some people truly don't care about quality- at all. I don't get the interest in vhs tapes, but to each their own.

Maybe for nostalgic reasons? I sometimes watch a couple of vhs-ripped movies on youtube on a Saturday night. Kind of like I did back in the days of video rentals. Quality is awful, but I'm still somewhat enjoying the 'flashback' experience.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by octagon

While walking along in desert sand, you suddenly look down and see a tortoise crawling toward you. You reach down and flip it over onto its back. The tortoise lies there, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs, trying to turn itself over, but it cannot do so without your help. You are not helping.

Why?

What do you mean I'm not helping?

REPLICANT CONFIRMED -- queue X-Files theme song.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I was surprised that people had any interest in these old vhs tapes, especially as the ones I saw there were of titles that you could readily find on the much superior disc formats. At this one store anyway, even vhs tapes are alive and well. Physical media appears to be more resilient than even I suspected if this one store's experience is any indicator.

Have a look at eBay for D Theater here. Most of these titles have made it to BD so not sure why they would sell for several dollars. I bet my copy of True Lies D-VHS D-Theater would fetch several dollars.

[dublinbluray108]

I can become guilty of going off topic when I talked about the cover art for BvS in my last post. I could have actually said from my last post that some of the other live action WB/DC Movies from over the years when re-released on Blu-ray will all have standardized art work in the future. Suicide Squad re-released in 4K Blu-ray was the first movie to get this new artwork. It has a green & black banner written across the middle on the front cover.

As I am big into comic book movies since I was a kid; I was a little surprised that this style of artwork will get similar treatment from WB/DC for nearly every one of their older movies. I initially thought with Suicide Squad getting the new artwork; it would just apply to the DC Extended Universe only. But now every one of their movies out of their catalogue is getting a new look with this artwork. The extras out of these newer releases so far are not getting added with new bonus material either when compared to their previous Blu-ray releases where the extras on them by and large remain the same as before.

I could ask the question why would WB/DC would release these movies again on Blu-ray with art work that nearly looks similar across every release? Would the older Blu-ray releases of them become out of print in future so that newer customers will not be left out when the newer stock comes out in the same format? I don't mind the actual intention behind the artwork at all as does look nice. I am confused as to what is the point of it all when WB/DC are promoting these new releases to the public.

Just on a point about Apple. I read an article from Forbes yesterday that Apple recently changed something in their TOS that include refunds or replacements of content for iTunes customers if they find missing movies from their personal libraries. There are some restrictions in place that may not allow you to get a refund from Apple if you make a fraudulent counter claim to their customer service team.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#7e772a02ad20

Their previous article about Apple included a big list of other people who lost their iTunes movies from their libraries. It had also included a major point about attaining ownership of digital movies from customers on iTunes using Apple TV. It said when the vast majority of iTunes customers use Apple TV to view their movies; the concept of downloading them onto to an Apple device so they can own it is believed to be mind boggling to them. So in repsonse to this point; what does this article tell me & you about these people who are into watching movies via Apple devices? It seems like streaming their purchased movies is the way to go for the vast majority of them.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have an anecdote to share that proves nothing on a larger scale, but that I still found to be interesting.

Yesterday, I was browsing one of those large antique flea market consignment shops in a city in a neighboring state and I discovered that many of the sellers had used movies for sale on vhs, dvd, and a small selection of blu-rays. While the prices varied among the different sellers, most of the dvds could be had for $3, the blus for $5, and the vhs tapes were priced at $2 or 3 for $5. One of the sellers priced their vhs tapes at $5 each.

I purchased a novelty Snoopy glass for $2.60, being the big spender that I am, and while doing so I asked the store manager how well the used movies were selling. He said they sold really well. I asked him if that was true of the vhs tapes and he replied that they were very popular, too.

I was surprised that people had any interest in these old vhs tapes, especially as the ones I saw there were of titles that you could readily find on the much superior disc formats. At this one store anyway, even vhs tapes are alive and well. Physical media appears to be more resilient than even I suspected if this one store's experience is any indicator.

On the other hand, if people are still buying vhs tapes it could be said that some people truly don't care about quality- at all. I don't get the interest in vhs tapes, but to each their own.

Hipsters trying to be ironic

[alchav21]

[quote=dublinbluray108;15540460]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

It had also included a major point about attaining ownership of digital movies from customers on iTunes using Apple TV. It said when the vast majority of iTunes customers use Apple TV to view their movies; the concept of downloading them onto to an Apple device so they can own it is believed to be mind boggling to them. So in repsonse to this point; what does this article tell me & you about these people who are into watching movies via Apple devices? It seems like streaming their purchased movies is the way to go for the vast majority of them.

Most people just want to watch their Movies, and aren't into collecting. If they want to see it more than once, then a Digital Collection is appealing but as for long term or it disappearing doesn't really enter their minds. Here on this Site, you have various levels of Collectors, and to them Digital should be like Physical and nothing should disappear. To download and back-up your Movies is not practical, and the download files are highly compressed around 5Gigabits, where the Adaptive Streaming Files are much bigger for the higher Bitrates. Bottom Line it's all personal preference Digital or Physical, but with Disc Sales going down and Streaming becoming the Norm. Everyone has to make thier own choice, but I'm sure ISP Bandwidth is going to be at the center. Now they want to bump up the minimums to 25/3Mbps, and I don't think that is enough for Quality Streaming.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Most people just want to watch their Movies, and aren't into collecting. If they want to see it more than once, then a Digital Collection is appealing but as for long term or it disappearing doesn't really enter their minds. Here on this Site, you have various levels of Collectors, and to them Digital should be like Physical and nothing should disappear. To download and back-up your Movies is not practical, and the download files are highly compressed around 5Gigabits, where the Adaptive Streaming Files are much bigger for the higher Bitrates. Bottom Line it's all personal preference Digital or Physical, but with Disc Sales going down and Streaming becoming the Norm. Everyone has to make thier own choice, but I'm sure ISP Bandwidth is going to be at the center. Now they want to bump up the minimums to 25/3Mbps, and I don't think that is enough for Quality Streaming.

You should not try to speak for "most people"; you have no idea what they are into nor what they think. My casual observations have shown that most people collect something, but I would not draw any sweeping conclusions from these observations as my sample size is too small to be significant and the same applies to yours.

Digital and physical collections are not the same and the differences between them have been covered here many times. Most people likely do not think about their purchases disappearing because in the vast majority of purchase categories it would never happen in the manner than it can happen with a digital purchase. As a physical media collector, NONE of my purchases will ever disappear at the whim of the studios- it simply can not happen.

Digital titles have disappeared from people's collections. These occurrences may be rare, but they are also real. The precedent has been established many times over. If digital customers are content with this risk, however small it may, or may not, be, then that is their choice and they are welcome to it. My discs stay where I put them and that is my choice.

Subscription streaming is arguably the norm, not digital purchases, and the expectations of this type of service are entirely different than that of a purchase. Titles routinely come and go with subscription services and their customers are probably well aware of this aspect of their subscription. There is no expectation of ownership as no purchases were involved.

In your last sentence, you appear to be referring to the internet speed recommendations of streaming content providers. Netflix's recommendation of 25+ Mbps is nothing new and it has been their recommendation for years. It has not been "bumped up." Sony Ultra recommends just 15-20 Mbps and their recommendation is also unchanged. These are not new and there are no articles that I can find that indicate that any streaming provider has plans to raise these internet speed recommendations. Netflix and the offer streaming content providers appear to be confident that these internet speeds are adequate for the bitrates that they offer, which have similarly been frozen in amber at 16 Mbps for 4K content. Bitrates are unchanged and therefore the internet speed recommendations are also unchanged.

[PCFan]

I have over 1200 movies in my iTunes library but I still prefer physical. Only reason why I stick to digital is because of my huge iTunes library and I feel too committed to it considering all the money I spent to accumulate such a huge digital collection. The only reason why I started going into digital for movies was because of the cheap codes I could buy online for generally around the price of a digital rental. If it weren't for digital codes, I'm positive I would not have gone digital for movies. There are frequent great deals in movies and TV shows in these digital services but what got me started into digital were the codes. Also I'm hating the iTunes interface more and more and would like to get away from iTunes and digital in general but I have such a huge library in iTunes that it's not an easy decision to make. If I do go back to physical, I will buy a 4k disc player and build a small collection of 4k movies and a few blu-rays, but I don't think I would abandon my iTunes collection, it would be just to supplement my iTunes collection, for those movies I truly want to own and not lose, yet I don't think I'll even do that as it seems to be redundant.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PCFan

I have over 1200 movies in my iTunes library but I still prefer physical. Only reason why I stick to digital is because of my huge iTunes library and I feel too committed to it considering all the money I spent to accumulate such a huge digital collection. The only reason why I started going into digital for movies was because of the cheap codes I could buy online for generally around the price of a digital rental. If it weren't for digital codes, I'm positive I would not have gone digital for movies. There are frequent great deals in movies and TV shows in these digital services but what got me started into digital were the codes. Also I'm hating the iTunes interface more and more and would like to get away from iTunes and digital in general but I have such a huge library in iTunes that it's not an easy decision to make. If I do go back to physical, I will buy a 4k disc player and build a small collection of 4k movies and a few blu-rays, but I don't think I would abandon my iTunes collection, it would be just to supplement my iTunes collection, for those movies I truly want to own and not lose, yet I don't think I'll even do that as it seems to be redundant.

Of all the members on here, you seem the most conflicted.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Of all the members on here, you seem the most conflicted.

I believe I am. If I had no more than 200 digital movies in my iTunes account, the decision would be easier for me. However as my digital collection in iTunes gets larger, I'm getting more and more committed to my digital collection, specifically with iTunes. If Apple could close my iTunes account and refund me for those movies and TV shows I purchased directly through them then it would be easier for me to decide to go back to physical but I'm sure they won't refund me for those direct purchases if I can get them to close my iTunes account.

[Vilya]

I received a random pm today from a forum member that I have never had any interaction with that I can recall and this person wrote to me asking if I would be willing to give them two specific codes from the discs in my collection.

They also offered to buy them for an unspecified sum as a last resort or to make some kind of trade. This is now the second time that a complete stranger has sent me a pm asking me to give them my digital codes.

It really strikes me as odd behavior as I, personally, would never ask a stranger, or anyone else, to just give me their things.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I received a random pm today from a forum member that I have never had any interaction with that I can recall and this person wrote to me asking if I would be willing to give them two specific codes from the discs in my collection.

They also offered to buy them for an unspecified sum as a last resort or to make some kind of trade. This is now the second time that a complete stranger has sent me a pm asking me to give them my digital codes.

It really strikes me as odd behavior as I, personally, would never ask a stranger, or anyone else, to just give me their things.

In my opinion, that’s just human nature for many. Wanting something for nothing all the time. Makes me sick.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PCFan

I believe I am. If I had no more than 200 digital movies in my iTunes account, the decision would be easier for me. However as my digital collection in iTunes gets larger, I'm getting more and more committed to my digital collection, specifically with iTunes. If Apple could close my iTunes account and refund me for those movies and TV shows I purchased directly through them then it would be easier for me to decide to go back to physical but I'm sure they won't refund me for those direct purchases if I can get them to close my iTunes account.

Not sure why you went digital in the first place as you seem to prefer superior A/V quality. You get what you pay for after all.