Third Window Films Discussion Thread

[Ghostdini]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

it's a great short too!

Yeah not much use for us on Friend 2. We just can't afford to do such things as it's a large fee for something which won't go into cinemas, won't make it into supermarkets, won't sell to TV, Netflix, etc and I can't imagine it shifting more than 1,000 or so blurays over its lifetime so there's just no way...

It's a sorry state, but there's some great indie films popping up that are still in need of a wider release outside of career (top work getting Bleak Night and Pluto out here!). Titles like Mother is a *****, The Weight, Rough Play...

Hopefully the asking price for them would be much smaller, and films like The Weight are so unique and with his new film in production I think it could be a great time to pounce. From what Thom from BIFF told me about it, he's helping produce it - it's going to be a crazy film, more so than The Weight.

Plus Dong-gun Jang will be in it!

[Flack999]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

while I appreciate that BD is the best quality to watch a film at home and that this is a bluray forum, we can't lose perspective in the fact that the blu-ray market of feature films makes up a minuscule portion of what is out there, so it's essentially just disregarding all films that don't make it onto blu-ray, which are pretty much all non-major films as companies who release non-major films cannot usually afford to put films out on bluray.

Maybe it's because I live in Japan where most cinemas still have 35mm projectors and therefore we can see many films which never made it to digital (unlike the UK which has rubbished nearly all of them) plus where VHS can still be rented in all rental shops as that movie may have never been released any other way, or maybe it's because i'm a lover of old music which unfortunately never made it out of its originally pressed vinyl format, but only following a technical format would make people forget the past and the lifespan of the present would get shorter and shorter (maybe it's way the lifespan of remaking films is now so short, like Spiderman and Superman getting remade in such a short time-frame).
I used to work at a video shop in the States where the owner bought near every single independent and foreign film for 30 years non-stop and never ever threw any thing away, and it was literally one of the only places in the world that so many films could be seen, so i really came to appreciate the value in such things, but we really must remember that how great BD or whatever upcoming format will come out, that this forum is about FILMS on BD, and without FILMS then there won't really be a point for this forum, so I hope we can keep some perspective here, just for the sake of us all loving cinema and wanting to see films we may never not get a chance to see otherwise

Very well said

A few years ago I cut down on buying new dvds and just spent money on BluRays.
Films that werent released on Blu (which was most of them, really) I just put on a wish-list called "buy when available on blu".
Now, a few years later that list has grown huge and having seen none of these films released on blu and some asian films actually running out of print on Dvd (several HK and taiwan discs are pretty much impossible to find now) I started to focus more on the film and less on the medium again.
My collection was starting to seriously lack in quality after stopping to purchase dvds.
So I am big on buying Dvds again - if you don't, you just miss out on way too many amazing films.

Sure I love BluRay and it makes collecting films so much more fun.. but in the end what I love is a movie and if thats only on Dvd, then a Dvd is just fine.

All those Dvds that I bought the past few months also include ThirdWindow releases of course and it feels great having them on my shelf and really owning a special film made available by a great company

[darry]

To be honest, I don't know why anyone would ask for something like Friend 2 to be released by third window. The more obscure the better, Adam.

[Ghostdini]

Originally Posted by darry

To be honest, I don't know why anyone would ask for something like Friend 2 to be released by third window. The more obscure the better, Adam.

It's the sequel to one of the biggest Korean films of all time. Of which is already on the UK market, VIA Thirdwindow I may add, with an inbuilt audience.

Obscure doesn't mean good. It does mean risk though and seeing as bigger films from established talent are selling 200 copies, it doesn't sound like a sound business venture to be pushing obscure films only on a dwindling market place does it?

If Tsukamoto can't move units or get onto Netflix, what makes you believe an unknown will?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

while I appreciate that BD is the best quality to watch a film at home and that this is a bluray forum, we can't lose perspective in the fact that the blu-ray market of feature films makes up a minuscule portion of what is out there, so it's essentially just disregarding all films that don't make it onto blu-ray, which are pretty much all non-major films as companies who release non-major films cannot usually afford to put films out on bluray.

Maybe it's because I live in Japan where most cinemas still have 35mm projectors and therefore we can see many films which never made it to digital (unlike the UK which has rubbished nearly all of them) plus where VHS can still be rented in all rental shops as that movie may have never been released any other way, or maybe it's because i'm a lover of old music which unfortunately never made it out of its originally pressed vinyl format, but only following a technical format would make people forget the past and the lifespan of the present would get shorter and shorter (maybe it's way the lifespan of remaking films is now so short, like Spiderman and Superman getting remade in such a short time-frame).
I used to work at a video shop in the States where the owner bought near every single independent and foreign film for 30 years non-stop and never ever threw any thing away, and it was literally one of the only places in the world that so many films could be seen, so i really came to appreciate the value in such things, but we really must remember that how great BD or whatever upcoming format will come out, that this forum is about FILMS on BD, and without FILMS then there won't really be a point for this forum, so I hope we can keep some perspective here, just for the sake of us all loving cinema and wanting to see films we may never not get a chance to see otherwise

Hi, just bought and watched grateful dead and I was very impressed with the film/overall product. I share the concerns of everyone else in relation to less and less releases on Bluray in the future. I suppose the next best thing would be a Netflix style service exclusively consisting of Asian cinema. Do you ever see companies working together to make this a possibility? Maybe in full HD where possible.

[darry]

Originally Posted by Ghostdini

Obscure doesn't mean good. It does mean risk though and seeing as bigger films from established talent are selling 200 copies, it doesn't sound like a sound business venture to be pushing obscure films only on a dwindling market place does it?

One of the biggest Korean movies of all time doesn't mean shit in countries outside of Korea, especially Anglo countries, because there's no difference from their perspective. Most of the population can't even audibly distinguish between Korean, Chinese Mandarin and Cantonese, and Japanese. The whole genre is obscure in these markets, it doesn't matter how good the film is. If we're talking about the profitability of a company releasing Asian DVD/Blu-rays I don't see what option there is outside of taking a punt on obscure titles because getting the supposedly 'big' films isn't necessarily going to be a windfall and, as Adam has repeatedly pointed out, are expensive to purchase.

You mentioned The Weight and Rough Play. Are they any good?

[Ghostdini]

Originally Posted by darry

One of the biggest Korean movies of all time doesn't mean shit in countries outside of Korea, especially Anglo countries, because there's no difference from their perspective. Most of the population can't even audibly distinguish between Korean, Chinese Mandarin and Cantonese, and Japanese. The whole genre is obscure in these markets, it doesn't matter how good the film is. If we're talking about the profitability of a company releasing Asian DVD/Blu-rays I don't see what option there is outside of taking a punt on obscure titles because getting the supposedly 'big' films isn't necessarily going to be a windfall and, as Adam has repeatedly pointed out, are expensive to purchase.

You mentioned The Weight and Rough Play. Are they any good?

If we look at their back catalogue, Third Window have been dealing almost exclusively with popular talent. Sion Sono, Tetsuya Nakashima, Miike, Tsukamoto - because it's the smart move and stands a better chance of regaining the money quicker than, say, Pluto will. Because nobody has heard of Shin Su-won and Pluto outside of the Festival circuit. Or fans of World cinema that pay attention to said festivals.

I'm happy that New Directors from Japan is out, and it was a wise decision to cap the pressing at 1,000. I think that's the wise move going forward on most releases to be honest, but again it depends on the price tag and contract at point of acquisition. Su-jin Lee’s film, Han Gong-Ju, will be a good indicator of interest in the more obscure side of Korean cinema in April, did well on the festival circuit but she’s a relative unknown – even in Korea.

Picking up a title by the likes of Lee Jung-beom, Jang Joon-hwan, Na Hong-jin or Lee Chang-dong may be more costly, but it's because they come with brand recognition and a fan base. I mean, most people know of films like A Man From Nowhere, The Chaser and Poetry because they were globally successful and you could find A Man From Nowhere and The Chaser in supermarkets because a bigger label took the punt, which can now be cashed-in by other labels - as Monster Pictures did with The Yellow Sea.
But I agree, it’s always a risk with world cinema. Especially in a market place a poor as the one in the UK. When a film like Snowpiecer hasn’t seen the light of day here, you know something is seriously wrong.

The Weight is truly unique, it’s a niche film to say the least but if you’re a fan of the darker side of cinema then you’ll have a finer appreciation of it. It deals with some pretty ‘weighty’ topics . Rough Play is much glossier, and from a script by Ki-duk Kim you’ll know what to expect. It gets lost in its own seriousness at times and is filled with unlikeable characters. It’s a scathing attack on the Korean film industry through Kim’s eyes when all’s said and done. Great performance from pop idol Lee Joon also.

[Mansinthe]

on the "+" side for fans of asian cinema. if you are region free there are still plenty of ways to see these movies on bluray
if you are able to add fansubs via htpc or a good bluray player there are even more movies you could import.

really obscure cinema is nice but we have to keep in mind that adam needs to make money as well lets hope the Kitanos will be good sellers !


i watched Story of Yonosuke yesterday and absolutly loved the movie. had it in my shelf for months now

[huntauk]

Originally Posted by Ghostdini

Especially in a market place a poor as the one in the UK. When a film like Snowpiecer hasn’t seen the light of day here, you know something is seriously wrong.

I'd disagree that the film market is poor in the UK. Just any film outside a major studio marketed English language film with mainstream appeal gets overlooked. 50 Shades of Grey, Transformers ect are examples really poor films are lapped up by good marketing. People seem to want to put themselves through the torture of paying for and watching crap then kidding themselves, "Yeah it's not that bad a film". The Snowpiercer fiasco is just depressing, but probably down in half to the amount Weinstein is charging to sub-licence and no company sees the risk viable.

[Mansinthe]

just think about all the WkW movies that have no bluray release outsite of asia.
The Different Grandmaster cuts that most people dont even know about.
Snowpiercer (glad i went for the CJ release)

or anime movies like Evangelion 3.33.

But the UK has a good mix of things if you still buy DVDs. I just got recently a few Tartan DVDs etc.. movies that have been around for at least 10 years now and still have no Bluray release annaunced

[Ghostdini]

Originally Posted by huntauk

I'd disagree that the film market is poor in the UK. Just any film outside a major studio marketed English language film with mainstream appeal gets overlooked. 50 Shades of Grey, Transformers ect are examples really poor films are lapped up by good marketing. People seem to want to put themselves through the torture of paying for and watching crap then kidding themselves, "Yeah it's not that bad a film". The Snowpiercer fiasco is just depressing, but probably down in half to the amount Weinstein is charging to sub-licence and no company sees the risk viable.

50 Shades and Transformers already had huge fan bases prior to production, hence why they were made. There was no risk involved at all in either of those films, same with the Marvel system. It's all part of the problem really.

I think the backlash the TWC faced when they announced the cuts to the film has left an ugly aftertaste in their mouths; so are happy to just sit on it rather than push it out wider. Luckily I have a multi-region player, so I'm really not impacted by the lack of films available in the UK - it just sucks when trying to suggest films to other people who are looking to dip their toes into Asian cinema. Hah.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by darry

One of the biggest Korean movies of all time doesn't mean shit in countries outside of Korea, especially Anglo countries, because there's no difference from their perspective.

I do remember some huge Korean hits such as Shiri or Tube being released on DVD in France back in 2007. You can't really say they sold a lot of them...
And that was at the top of the Asian market in France, where the DVD market was saturated with lots and lots of Asian movies getting released though Asian Star, Wild Side and Metropolitan.

So yes, you're right, the biggest Korean movies of all time doesn't mean a lot outside of Korea.

Actually, about the same goes for a lot of movies : the biggest Chinese movie of all time, or the biggest Japanese.
Hell, even Shrek 2 and The Dark Knight didn't make very special Box Office scores in France !

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

just think about all the WkW movies that have no bluray release outsite of asia.
The Different Grandmaster cuts that most people dont even know about.
Snowpiercer (glad i went for the CJ release)

or anime movies like Evangelion 3.33.

Except Days of Being Wild (though a BD exists in France), 2046 (though a BD exists in Korea) and Eros, all WKW have "easily" accessible BDs outside of Asia (USA, UK, France). Of course, the original cut of Ashes of Time doesn't, but that's because of WKW himself.

Grandmaster is very special because some of the cuts have been done by WKW himself. The only way to see most of them would be for him to agree for some labels to get multiple cuts of the movie (à la Brazil / Mr Arkadin / etc).
But overall, I believe there are only 3 versions, all of them known.

As for Evangelion 3.33, there are many releases outside Asia. However, there is no release for North America and UK. The problem is thus inverted.

[Mansinthe]

thats the case with a lot of movies all over europe. (+ UK).. i could mention a bunch of the most well known asian movies among my friends that are interesstet at least a bit in "movies" but im pretty sure they would hardly know any of them.

Alot of the stuff tartan released in the UK has been released in Germany as well. But i do not remember them selling good or in a lot of places.
Not to mention alot of them are censored on top of that or have only dub-titles.

Its really a shame that movies lile "The Chaser" doesnt have a eng friendly Bluray release (anymore).

that would be like letting Akira go OOP.


But it was really nice during my Holidays in Singapore to go see that most tickets for the second kenshin movie have sold out days before its release. Luckily me and my GF still got tickets and saw it in a 4k Cinema.
I dont see that happening in germany (ever)

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by Ghostdini

If we look at their back catalogue, Third Window have been dealing almost exclusively with popular talent. Sion Sono, Tetsuya Nakashima, Miike, Tsukamoto - because it's the smart move and stands a better chance of regaining the money quicker than, say, Pluto will. Because nobody has heard of Shin Su-won and Pluto outside of the Festival circuit. Or fans of World cinema that pay attention to said festivals.

I'm happy that New Directors from Japan is out, and it was a wise decision to cap the pressing at 1,000. I think that's the wise move going forward on most releases to be honest, but again it depends on the price tag and contract at point of acquisition. Su-jin Lee’s film, Han Gong-Ju, will be a good indicator of interest in the more obscure side of Korean cinema in April, did well on the festival circuit but she’s a relative unknown – even in Korea.

Picking up a title by the likes of Lee Jung-beom, Jang Joon-hwan, Na Hong-jin or Lee Chang-dong may be more costly, but it's because they come with brand recognition and a fan base. I mean, most people know of films like A Man From Nowhere, The Chaser and Poetry because they were globally successful and you could find A Man From Nowhere and The Chaser in supermarkets because a bigger label took the punt, which can now be cashed-in by other labels - as Monster Pictures did with The Yellow Sea.
But I agree, it’s always a risk with world cinema. Especially in a market place a poor as the one in the UK. When a film like Snowpiecer hasn’t seen the light of day here, you know something is seriously wrong.

The Weight is truly unique, it’s a niche film to say the least but if you’re a fan of the darker side of cinema then you’ll have a finer appreciation of it. It deals with some pretty ‘weighty’ topics . Rough Play is much glossier, and from a script by Ki-duk Kim you’ll know what to expect. It gets lost in its own seriousness at times and is filled with unlikeable characters. It’s a scathing attack on the Korean film industry through Kim’s eyes when all’s said and done. Great performance from pop idol Lee Joon also.

Actually, to be fair many of those directors you have mentioned we were the first to release their titles in the West and at the time they were not bankable names and their film rights were incredibly cheap. For Sion Sono we paid almost nothing for Love Exposure and titles like Himizu and Cold Fish we were the first to release them so didn't pay very much. In fact we were actually the first in the world, and that includes Japan, to release Cold Fish on home video...

Same goes for Tetsuya Nakashima. We were the first to release both Memories of Matsuko and Confessions in the West and therefore picked them up before their prices rose. In fact, our sleeve designs for Confessions, Himizu and Love Exposure were used by nearly all other territories for their releases, with Confessions used in all Western releases (Spain, Italy, Germany, etc) and Himizu and Love Exposure not just used in Western territories, but even the Japanese video releases!!

Nowadays we cannot afford to release the latest films from directors like Sion Sono and Tetsuya Nakashima, but when we first started releasing them we picked them up for very cheap as they were not as well known in the West and therefore we were actually the ones who took risks on them before other distribution companies came in and escalated the prices to a point where we could no longer compete...

In fact it can be much harder with the bigger titles, as usually these are titles not just with higher price tags, but with releases in other territories with english subtitles, so many people on here will go to sites like Yesasia and buy the Korean or Hong Kong releases before we have the chance to release overseas, and it's not easy to convince a sales agent that this is the case...

The titles which do best for us are usually unknown ones as despite their unknown title which assumes there's a larger risk, the prices on them can usually be that 10 can be bought for the price of a Miike film or a big Korean blockbuster like FRIEND 2. Titles like SHADY and GREATFUL DEAD are perfect examples of quality films that have no other releases in the world, plus cost next to nothing to acquire so the risk is infinitely less. Most of our biggest sellers have been titles or thought of as hard-sell genres such as 'Fine, Totally Fine', 'Funuke: Show Some Love You Losers', 'Turtles are Surprisingly Fast Swimmers', 'Adrift in Tokyo', 'Fish Story', 'Sawako Decides', yet titles like LESSON OF EVIL which you'd imagine would have all the necessary box-office potential don't make money as they're much more expensive to license and have already found their audience due to releases overseas...

[jonboy24]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

Actually, to be fair many of those directors you have mentioned we were the first to release their titles in the West and at the time they were not bankable names and their film rights were incredibly cheap. For Sion Sono we paid almost nothing for Love Exposure and titles like Himizu and Cold Fish we were the first to release them so didn't pay very much. In fact we were actually the first in the world, and that includes Japan, to release Cold Fish on home video...

Same goes for Tetsuya Nakashima. We were the first to release both Memories of Matsuko and Confessions in the West and therefore picked them up before their prices rose. In fact, our sleeve designs for Confessions, Himizu and Love Exposure were used by nearly all other territories for their releases, with Confessions used in all Western releases (Spain, Italy, Germany, etc) and Himizu and Love Exposure not just used in Western territories, but even the Japanese video releases!!

Nowadays we cannot afford to release the latest films from directors like Sion Sono and Tetsuya Nakashima, but when we first started releasing them we picked them up for very cheap as they were not as well known in the West and therefore we were actually the ones who took risks on them before other distribution companies came in and escalated the prices to a point where we could no longer compete...

In fact it can be much harder with the bigger titles, as usually these are titles not just with higher price tags, but with releases in other territories with english subtitles, so many people on here will go to sites like Yesasia and buy the Korean or Hong Kong releases before we have the chance to release overseas, and it's not easy to convince a sales agent that this is the case...

The titles which do best for us are usually unknown ones as despite their unknown title which assumes there's a larger risk, the prices on them can usually be that 10 can be bought for the price of a Miike film or a big Korean blockbuster like FRIEND 2. Titles like SHADY and GREATFUL DEAD are perfect examples of quality films that have no other releases in the world, plus cost next to nothing to acquire so the risk is infinitely less. Most of our biggest sellers have been titles or thought of as hard-sell genres such as 'Fine, Totally Fine', 'Funuke: Show Some Love You Losers', 'Turtles are Surprisingly Fast Swimmers', 'Adrift in Tokyo', 'Fish Story', 'Sawako Decides', yet titles like LESSON OF EVIL which you'd imagine would have all the necessary box-office potential don't make money as they're much more expensive to license and have already found their audience due to releases overseas...

Glad to see the Miki Satoshi films doing well

We need more of his films

[darry]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

In fact it can be much harder with the bigger titles, as usually these are titles not just with higher price tags, but with releases in other territories with english subtitles, so many people on here will go to sites like Yesasia and buy the Korean or Hong Kong releases before we have the chance to release overseas, and it's not easy to convince a sales agent that this is the case...

The titles which do best for us are usually unknown ones as despite their unknown title which assumes there's a larger risk, the prices on them can usually be that 10 can be bought for the price of a Miike film or a big Korean blockbuster like FRIEND 2. Titles like SHADY and GREATFUL DEAD are perfect examples of quality films that have no other releases in the world, plus cost next to nothing to acquire so the risk is infinitely less. Most of our biggest sellers have been titles or thought of as hard-sell genres such as 'Fine, Totally Fine', 'Funuke: Show Some Love You Losers', 'Turtles are Surprisingly Fast Swimmers', 'Adrift in Tokyo', 'Fish Story', 'Sawako Decides', yet titles like LESSON OF EVIL which you'd imagine would have all the necessary box-office potential don't make money as they're much more expensive to license and have already found their audience due to releases overseas...

This is the main point I think. I haven't bought any third window releases that have already been released elsewhere. But for stuff not released I've lapped them up straight away.

[thirdwindowfilms]

We're started a new film production from director Eiji Uchida (Greatful Dead) which is totally independent and funded all by Third Window Films (I sold the majority of a record collection I had been building up for more than half my life) and have quite a great cast, despite the lack of budget, including:

Denden (Cold Fish, Himizu)
Kanji Tsuda (Juon: The Grudge, Guilty of Romance)
Kanji Furutachi (Woodsman & the Rain, Fukuchan of Fukufuku Flats)
Shugo Oshinari (Kabukicho Love Hotel, Yokohama Story)
Chika Uchida (Sad Tea, Penance)
Yoshihiko Hosoda (Detroit Metal City, Lady Shogun and her Men)
Yuumi Goto (Be My Baby, I Catch a Terrible Cat)

We need to secure the last bit of funding so doing a kickstarter project and would appreciate any support, even if just getting the word out online!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-japanese-film

[simaya-san]

Done! Hope this will be successful!

[roguejp]

Adam, is there any chance of adding another rewards option, this one is sold out:
"A copy of the film, as a dual format DVD/BLU-RAY edition (part of a 1,000 limited edition) signed by:
director Eiji Uchida
and actors Kiyohiko Shibukawa, Denden, Kanji Furutachi, Oshinari Shugo, Hosoda Yoshihiko and Yumi Goto. ".

That's the one I want the most (Denden!).

Just asking .

[Ste7en]

Agree 100%. First I've heard and most the BD/DVD pledges have gone