Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Some screen shots showing how data is being used by VUDU playing Oblivion in HDX. As one can see there is very little data sent from the client to the server (upload). The beige graph windows are 1 minute wide. Note how there are chunks of time where no data is transferred. The VUDU app plays inside WWAHost.

[Show spoiler]

This clearly shows that streaming content is almost entirely a matter of download bandwidth and not of upload. Thusly, latency concerns are essentially inconsequential as there is extremely little two-way communication going on here. All of which an antiquated wireless network can easily handle and that a modern one can do without ever breaking a sweat.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

All of which an antiquated wireless network can easily handle and that a modern one can do without ever breaking a sweat.

Tried to find a setting on my router to limit it to Wireless G (54 Mbps) but I could not find any. But yes, an old G should do one stream without any problem.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I love tech but this is a hard, brutal, relentless world with little glimmers of delight.

And yet it affords us all countless hours to watch high-definition films and then go on the interwebs to argue about whether we should be watching our high-definition films via little plastic discs or over a world-wide computer network.

Hard, brutal worlds don't get much more relentless than that.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

And yet it affords us all countless hours to watch high-definition films and then go on the interwebs to argue about whether we should be watching our high-definition films via little plastic discs or over a world-wide computer network.

Hard, brutal worlds don't get much more relentless than that.

Movies are the escape, always have been for me.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Movies are the escape, always have been for me.

Sure but if you can spend hours watching movies and hours talking about movies and even more hours talking about how those movies are delivered them maybe that hard, brutal world isn't quite as relentless as you're making it out to be.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Sure but if you can spend hours watching movies and hours talking about movies and even more hours talking about how those movies are delivered them maybe that hard, brutal world isn't quite as relentless as you're making it out to be.

Well, considering you don’t know me, that’s some statement right there.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

He says from his armchair with footrest!

Would that be motorized or manual footrest?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Would that be motorized or manual footrest?

Motorized.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Would that be motorized or manual footrest?

Actually, I ring a sterling silver bell and have a servant activate the footrest while also placing a velvet pillow under my footsies.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Actually, I ring a sterling silver bell and have a servant activate the footrest while also placing a velvet pillow under my footsies.

I was thinking maid?

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I was age 44 when I retired; that was 12 years ago. "Old" is more a state of mind, besides. My body definitely has some mileage on it, but my heart and mind are ever youthfull.

That’s honestly a healthy attitude to have in life. It sounds like you’ve been smart with the decisions in life since the “retirement” You definitely know what works for you and that’s what most people have so much trouble with. Stay healthy in your attitude. It’s what keeps us young.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

This clearly shows that streaming content is almost entirely a matter of download bandwidth and not of upload. Thusly, latency concerns are essentially inconsequential as there is extremely little two-way communication going on here. All of which an antiquated wireless network can easily handle and that a modern one can do without ever breaking a sweat.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Tried to find a setting on my router to limit it to Wireless G (54 Mbps) but I could not find any. But yes, an old G should do one stream without any problem.

Some real nice graph charts, but then why are some of you guys still having problems. Vilya says his Streaming is okay, but others have different views. I watched Fast & Furious: Tokyo Drift in 4K UHD on Vudu last night and it came in real nice no problems. So you say the people having Streaming problems are Server related, and not anything to do with their Internet access or whether Wireless or not?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Some real nice graph charts, but then why are some of you guys still having problems. Vilya says his Streaming is okay, but others have different views. I watched Fast & Furious: Tokyo Drift in 4K UHD on Vudu last night and it came in real nice no problems. So you say the people having Streaming problems are Server related, and not anything to do with their Internet access or whether Wireless or not?

I only have recurring problems with ONE provider: Amazon Prime. Netflix, when I have it, and Youtube provide mostly decent and stable experiences. I keep meaning to try a rental from Voodoo, but I keep forgetting to do it; I kinda have a lot to watch already.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

So you say the people having Streaming problems are Server related, and not anything to do with their Internet access or whether Wireless or not?

A descent wireless system will not impede a streaming service. In fact a good AC wireless will have much greater bandwidth than most all ISP’s.

The fact that some folks get really good results for streaming video has little to do with the vast majority. August data from Netflix shows Comcast in 1st. place with a speed of 4.26 Mbps during prime time. Verizon - FiOS plans start at 100 Mbps yet they are at 4.13 Mbps for Netflix during prime time. For streaming video you have to know the performance between you and the origination point of the data being served. The fact that your speed test between you and your ISP may be 100 Mbps means very little in regards to streaming or downloading from a distance server.

Not long ago a Kaleidescape owner told me it took him about 8 hours to download a single 2 hour movie. After he moved to another state he said it took him about 2 hours to download a similar 2 hour movie. His ISP provider and plan were the same, the difference was he was much closer to the Kaleidescape server.

You have to think of the internet being like the interstate highway system. During rush hour you poke along at other times you can cruise along at max speed.

[The_Donster]

I think my only frustration with both digital and physical is the constant unplugging of components. Be it my router, tv or BD player. I had to do this last night with the router. Once everything booted up the new John Mullaney special looked gorgeous in 4K. I still need to see if YouTube will turn on in my son’s BD player.

This is how I worked out something wasn’t working because I can test the IP4 and IP6. So I unplugged his player and will check to see if everything is working correctly. I’m definitely regretting not keeping that router Groot recommended. I’m most likely going to get it or another one instead of renting from the cable company. Of course I’m still looking for my computer

[dublinbluray108]

My future with physical media is very strong to this day. From the last few weeks alone; I have bought a used copy of The Tudors: The Complete Series on Blu-ray. It only cost me €15 to buy it in store. I also bought a new copy of Norm of the North from an Irish discount store called Dealz for only €1.50. I had ordered the first volume of Joe 90 from Network's website in the UK.

The physical media market is a real goldmine for people acquiring this stuff on a regular basis. Even when used or new; tons of material is out there to be sold on reusable disc media which cannot be compared or comprehended via any downloadable medium.

On the other hand; my future with streaming & downloading TV shows & movies on my laptop is not getting brighter by the day. I had recently purchased a used copy of The Wolverine on Blu-ray which gave me the extended version included with extras & theatrical version of the movie. The DC with it had opted again to watch it on Google Play Movies. This is the same provider, in which a few months ago, still has my failed copy of The Greatest Showman giving me the BSOD. My DC of The Wolverine is giving me that same problem.

My own mother is still big into buying physical media into her 50's. She bought two seasons of Peter Rabbit & a movie about Jesus of Nazareth on DVD recently in Dublin. So it still remains that both of us are big purchasers of physical media in our house.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

A descent wireless system will not impede a streaming service. In fact a good AC wireless will have much greater bandwidth than most all ISP’s.

The fact that some folks get really good results for streaming video has little to do with the vast majority. August data from Netflix shows Comcast in 1st. place with a speed of 4.26 Mbps during prime time. Verizon - FiOS plans start at 100 Mbps yet they are at 4.13 Mbps for Netflix during prime time. For streaming video you have to know the performance between you and the origination point of the data being served. The fact that your speed test between you and your ISP may be 100 Mbps means very little in regards to streaming or downloading from a distance server.

Not long ago a Kaleidescape owner told me it took him about 8 hours to download a single 2 hour movie. After he moved to another state he said it took him about 2 hours to download a similar 2 hour movie. His ISP provider and plan were the same, the difference was he was much closer to the Kaleidescape server.

You have to think of the internet being like the interstate highway system. During rush hour you poke along at other times you can cruise along at max speed.

You don't have to tell me about the Internet, I set a lot of it up. Working in the Silicon Valley during the Dot Com Boom. Netflix talks about those low Bitrates that can only accommodate SD, but I guess that is all most people watch. As for Bandwidth Wireless is more than enough for low Speeds, but for the higher Quality and Bitrates Wireless can't match the Consistent Bitrate of Wired, and then we are not even talking about Latency. I have always said, there is not much you can do apart from moving for better Internet Providers. So you just have to work with what you have, and set up your home with the best connection possible. The Fattest Pipe from that Streaming Server to your UHD TV is what we all want for the best PQ and Sound!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You don't have to tell me about the Internet, I set a lot of it up. Working in the Silicon Valley during the Dot Com Boom. Netflix talks about those low Bitrates that can only accommodate SD, but I guess that is all most people watch. As for Bandwidth Wireless is more than enough for low Speeds, but for the higher Quality and Bitrates Wireless can't match the Consistent Bitrate of Wired, and then we are not even talking about Latency. I have always said, there is not much you can do apart from moving for better Internet Providers. So you just have to work with what you have, and set up your home with the best connection possible. The Fattest Pipe from that Streaming Server to your UHD TV is what we all want for the best PQ and Sound!

Those low bit rates from Netflix are not SD, they are HD! That’s the point!. 720p hovering in the area of 1.5-2Mbps and 1080p hovering at 2.7-4Mbps imo.

Netflix are rumoured to be trying to get down to Kbps for mobile HD. Maybe that’s what you are meaning?

Also, you have changed your tune. I thought Digital was the beacon of light for the masses? Are you now agreeing with me that it’s convenience and very little else and the quality will always rest with my beloved discs?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You don't have to tell me about the Internet, I set a lot of it up. Working in the Silicon Valley during the Dot Com Boom. Netflix talks about those low Bitrates that can only accommodate SD, but I guess that is all most people watch. As for Bandwidth Wireless is more than enough for low Speeds, but for the higher Quality and Bitrates Wireless can't match the Consistent Bitrate of Wired, and then we are not even talking about Latency. I have always said, there is not much you can do apart from moving for better Internet Providers. So you just have to work with what you have, and set up your home with the best connection possible. The Fattest Pipe from that Streaming Server to your UHD TV is what we all want for the best PQ and Sound!

Wireless networks can, and do, deliver the exact same quality and consistent bitrates that a wired network provides. An 802.11ac router can deliver speeds of 1,300 Mbps on the 5Ghz band and that exceeds what your outdated and unshielded Cat5e wired network delivers. Streaming providers only hit 16Mbps with their 4K streams and even an ancient 802.11g router can handle that anemic demand. Any modern wireless network can reliably stream anything in identical quality to that of your wired network.

Streaming is almost entirely a one-way communication with the server and latency is essentially irrelevant here. Proof of this was provided, yet again, just a few posts ago; did you even read it AND can you ever understand it? Latency matters with gaming and that, too, is easily managed over a wireless network.

If I, or anyone else, had issues with streaming, or gaming, that were due to interference over a wireless network we would either identify and eliminate that source of interference or we would switch to a wired network using shielded Cat6a cable or better. Your unshielded Cat5e wiring is also subject to interference and that is why all Cat6 cables and beyond are now shielded. We are smart enough to set-up a network that delivers everything desired and we manage fine without your incorrect and outdated advice. None of us would accept a wireless network that did not deliver excellent results- why can't you even comprehend this much?

This has all been explained to you over and over again by several of us with numerous citations, but you really do know next to nothing about the internet. You may know how to string wire around and match the connecting ends to the correct receptacles, but you more than demonstrate on an all too regular basis that you understand very little of what any of it means. Any modern network can deliver paltry 16 Mbps streams, and that is the most that streaming services provide, and these same networks also have plenty of bandwidth to allow for multiple users streaming simultaneously. When you receive that whopping 16Mbps stream, over either network type, then you are getting all that they offer, period. 16 Mbps streams do not look better because they were delivered over a wired network as opposed to a wireless one; they are identical.

Streaming IS accomplished in full equivalent quality over wireless networks.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Those low bit rates from Netflix are not SD, they are HD! That’s the point!. 720p hovering in the area of 1.5-2Mbps and 1080p hovering at 2.7-4Mbps imo.

Netflix are rumoured to be trying to get down to Kbps for mobile HD. Maybe that’s what you are meaning?

Also, you have changed your tune. I thought Digital was the beacon of light for the masses? Are you now agreeing with me that it’s convenience and very little else and the quality will always rest with my beloved discs?

He can't even learn anything about a subject where he laughably considers himself to be an expert, yet alone change his opinion. He determines what everyone is doing by people watching at his local Walmart.