Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Terminated

I agree...

Also people need to realize that Disney took a look at what Lucas's ideas were and someone (worth their salt.) at Disney hit the panic button and said (hell no that won't go!)

No, that's not what happened, at all. Abrams and Kasdan reworked what Lucas initially planned, they didn't throw the entire thing out. Abrams wanted to give the original trilogy cast a "proper send off", so they re-wrote the story to give them more presence. Meanwhile, one of the screenwriters of the spin-off films says they are using Lucas' ideas for ALL of the upcoming films -- that doesn't mean they are 100% true to the original ideas, but it also means they didn't "hit the panic button" and chuck them, either.

This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion.

[R3P0]

Lucas didnt have bad ideas the guy just couldn't convey them to picture worth a damn that was the issue. You have to give him credit he did advance the movie industry forward with everything he did. It may not have all been good, but at least he tried new things dialogue aside.

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by R3P0

Lucas didnt have bad ideas the guy just couldn't convey them to picture worth a damn that was the issue. You have to give him credit he did advance the movie industry forward with everything he did. It may not have all been good, but at least he tried new things dialogue aside.

^This.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by R3P0

Lucas didnt have bad ideas the guy just couldn't convey them to picture worth a damn that was the issue. You have to give him credit he did advance the movie industry forward with everything he did. It may not have all been good, but at least he tried new things dialogue aside.

Exactly.

I've been very critical of Lucas over the years between all of the changes to the OT and the (IMO) lackluster prequels. But he is a very good visionary and "idea" man. His ideas just tend to work best when there are other individuals with the proper talent working to help bring them to life. When he is working mostly on his own, unchallenged, surrounded by a bunch of "yes men," that's typically when his ideas don't reach their full potential and in some cases fall flat.

I read that Cinemablend article, and even I rose an eyebrow when going through it. While I figured that some things may differ from Lucas's orignal outline, I doubt that they were just throwing the whole thing out. IMO that would be stupid. They are going to take the ideas that are good, change/remove the ones that aren't (or that could be better), and build from there. There's definately some major hyperbole going on there.

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by R3P0

Lucas didnt have bad ideas the guy just couldn't convey them to picture worth a damn that was the issue. You have to give him credit he did advance the movie industry forward with everything he did. It may not have all been good, but at least he tried new things dialogue aside.

I think the sad thing is, Lucas himself knows his shortcomings, and he admits that his greatest strength is less in working with people and more in the editing room. He learned that from the stress he endured in the first Star Wars movie. I think he got a little too excited and zealous in the prequels. If he solicited and accepted more creative criticism (in writing or otherwise), his movies could have been better yet.

Which is why I say I'm glad they reworked the scripts/story for Ep. 7. I have confidence they're trying to make it the best it can be.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Terminated

^This.

Frankly, he needed re-writes...the OT had invaluable contributions from writers like Hyuck and Katz, and Lawrence Kasdan. He did reach out to Carrie Fisher to punch up the script for The Phantom Menace, but it is unknown how much of her contributions were retained. Also not known how much of Hale's work was in Episode II, but enough that he shared a screenwriting credit. Mr. Lucas said he had an outline for the prequels, and he had about 10% of his story in Menace and 10% in Clones and used those films to "play in his sandbox" but when he got to Episode III, he realized he had "ran out of time" and could only get 60% of the remaining 80% in the movie. That, for me, was the most surprising aspect to all this...things set up in Episode I and II have no payoff in Episode III because he hadn't just bit the bullet and wrote them all in advance so they could be properly structured.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Frankly, he needed re-writes...the OT had invaluable contributions from writers like Hyuck and Katz, and Lawrence Kasdan. He did reach out to Carrie Fisher to punch up the script for The Phantom Menace, but it is unknown how much of her contributions were retained. Also not known how much of Hale's work was in Episode II, but enough that he shared a screenwriting credit. Mr. Lucas said he had an outline for the prequels, and he had about 10% of his story in Menace and 10% in Clones and used those films to "play in his sandbox" but when he got to Episode III, he realized he had "ran out of time" and could only get 60% of the remaining 80% in the movie. That, for me, was the most surprising aspect to all this...things set up in Episode I and II have no payoff in Episode III because he hadn't just bit the bullet and wrote them all in advance so they could be properly structured.

Sifo Dyus??? Virgin Birth??? Whatever happend to that weird one eyed peach colored yoda rip off on the jedi council???

[Himmel]

You know i read that Lucas said that he was getting ready to do a new trilogy,and just then when Disney opted to buy in he decided to let them do it cause it would have been another 10yr block just to make the trilogy, and he didn't have it in him to do it.

Couldn't Disney have said
"Look we will work with you on this and you can still direct it and we can help you complete this trilogy in 5yrs instead of 10yrs."

I wonder why they didn't opt for that idea?

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by Terminated

You know i read that Lucas said that he was getting ready to do a new trilogy,and just then when Disney opted to buy in he decided to let them do it cause it would have been another 10yr block just to make the trilogy, and he didn't have it in him to do it.

Couldn't Disney have said "Look we will work with you on this and you can still direct it and we can help you complete this trilogy in 5yrs instead of 10yrs.
I wonder why they didn't opt for that idea?

Could have learned something from Peter Jackson and made the new trilogy back-to-back and have them released within a three-year period. Never mind the fact that a single director working on that would probably be strung out and lost a ton of weight by the time it's over.

Nah, having multiple directors working it one after the other will probably work to the series' benefit somehow.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Strange

I think the sad thing is, Lucas himself knows his shortcomings, and he admits that his greatest strength is less in working with people and more in the editing room. He learned that from the stress he endured in the first Star Wars movie. I think he got a little too excited and zealous in the prequels. If he solicited and accepted more creative criticism (in writing or otherwise), his movies could have been better yet.

Which is why I say I'm glad they reworked the scripts/story for Ep. 7. I have confidence they're trying to make it the best it can be.

He does and his greatest achievement by far is not the Star Wars Trilogy but THX and ILM. Look at what those 2 things alone have done for the industry. The guy designed and created and crafted so many ways to do effects its not funny. He had to manufacture ways to do the effects for the original movie which is how ILM was born. He may not be the worlds best director, but movies today would not be what they are if not for his vision.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Frankly, he needed re-writes...the OT had invaluable contributions from writers like Hyuck and Katz, and Lawrence Kasdan. He did reach out to Carrie Fisher to punch up the script for The Phantom Menace, but it is unknown how much of her contributions were retained. Also not known how much of Hale's work was in Episode II, but enough that he shared a screenwriting credit. Mr. Lucas said he had an outline for the prequels, and he had about 10% of his story in Menace and 10% in Clones and used those films to "play in his sandbox" but when he got to Episode III, he realized he had "ran out of time" and could only get 60% of the remaining 80% in the movie. That, for me, was the most surprising aspect to all this...things set up in Episode I and II have no payoff in Episode III because he hadn't just bit the bullet and wrote them all in advance so they could be properly structured.

Yeah, I read that as well and that always struck me as odd.

And it really shows in the end result. To me it seems pretty obvious that he had the path of the characters that appear in both the PT and OT roughly mapped out (Obi Wan, Yoda, Palpatine, Anakin/Vader...), but when it came to the new characers and the new things that he set up (i.e Syfo Dias), he just didn't have much of a plan and was making it up as he went.

Had it been planned out better, we probably would have, for example, seen Count Dooku in Episode I before he retired as a Jedi, making his turn to the Dark Side in Episode II more dramatic. Instead we just briefly here about him at the start of Ep II, and then he doesn't show up until almost half way through the movie, pretty much already evil.

There is a lot of potential in the ideas of the PT, but overall they were executed SO poorly!

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by R3P0

He does and his greatest achievement by far is not the Star Wars Trilogy but THX and ILM. Look at what those 2 things alone have done for the industry. The guy designed and created and crafted so many ways to do effects its not funny. He had to manufacture ways to do the effects for the original movie which is how ILM was born. He may not be the worlds best director, but movies today would not be what they are if not for his vision.

Oh yeah, I would never argue against the man's technical achievements. I grew up admiring all the marvels of ILM's special effects, from Star Wars to the innovative CGI effects in The Abyss and T2, the model work in all the old Trek films, and more.

Seeing the THX logo on DVDs always felt special, because you knew that the movie was mastered to the best possible specifications. I even remember the few unique logo sequences, like the liquid-metal one for T2, or a Volcanic one for the Volcano LaserDisc. Seems like I rarely see it anymore on Blu-Rays.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Terminated

You know i read that Lucas said that he was getting ready to do a new trilogy,and just then when Disney opted to buy in he decided to let them do it cause it would have been another 10yr block just to make the trilogy, and he didn't have it in him to do it.

Couldn't Disney have said
"Look we will work with you on this and you can still direct it and we can help you complete this trilogy in 5yrs instead of 10yrs."

I wonder why they didn't opt for that idea?

Lucas said he wanted to retire and find a steward for his company, and he went with Iger because he was impressed by how hands off Disney was with Pixar and Marvel. If Lucas WANTED to direct this film, he would have and Disney would not have stood in the way, but Lucas didn't want to direct, he wanted to retire. It was his choice. LucasFilm hired Abrams to direct the film, and as all directors do, he gave his input on the script and story and asked for changes. Everybody gets rewritten, unless you're Oliver Stone or Woody Allen and you write and direct your own work.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Frankly, he needed re-writes...the OT had invaluable contributions from writers like Hyuck and Katz, and Lawrence Kasdan. He did reach out to Carrie Fisher to punch up the script for The Phantom Menace, but it is unknown how much of her contributions were retained. Also not known how much of Hale's work was in Episode II, but enough that he shared a screenwriting credit. Mr. Lucas said he had an outline for the prequels, and he had about 10% of his story in Menace and 10% in Clones and used those films to "play in his sandbox" but when he got to Episode III, he realized he had "ran out of time" and could only get 60% of the remaining 80% in the movie. That, for me, was the most surprising aspect to all this...things set up in Episode I and II have no payoff in Episode III because he hadn't just bit the bullet and wrote them all in advance so they could be properly structured.

And this, in a nutshell, is where the PT went wrong. For years I've felt that, if only he had planned and thought it all through properly in advance, they could be so much better. Anakin's turn to the dark side especially would have benefited from much more planning and time to play out on screen, it's the single biggest thing that bothers me about ROTS.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

And this, in a nutshell, is where the PT went wrong. For years I've felt that, if only he had planned and thought it all through properly in advance, they could be so much better. Anakin's turn to the dark side especially would have benefited from much more planning and time to play out on screen, it's the single biggest thing that bothers me about ROTS.

Anakins conflict was what bothered me, I could never get into the love between the two of them simply because it felt so forced and was so unbelievable. I am sorry but the truth is if he really was conflicted he would have spilled his guts to Yoda or to Obi Wan. A conflicted person seeks wisdom from multiple places before making the decision, it would not have just been the chancellor.

Not to mention he really should have turned in clone wars, and Revenge of the Sith should have been him hunting down the Jedi. What we received as treatment was not what most of us envisioned and I guess that is the issue I have with the movies.

[obiwopkenobi62]

I am very optimistic about The Force Awakens. The way I see it, JJ is a bigger Star Wars fan than a Trek fan and look at the awesome job he did on the two Trek films. I think they're gonna knock it out of the park with The Force Awakens.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by obiwopkenobi62

I am very optimistic about The Force Awakens. The way I see it, JJ is a bigger Star Wars fan than a Trek fan and look at the awesome job he did on the two Trek films. I think they're gonna knock it out of the park with The Force Awakens.

Uh oh thems be fighting words round there parts how dare you admit you like the Trek films!!!!

[obiwopkenobi62]

Originally Posted by R3P0

He does and his greatest achievement by far is not the Star Wars Trilogy but THX and ILM. Look at what those 2 things alone have done for the industry. The guy designed and created and crafted so many ways to do effects its not funny. He had to manufacture ways to do the effects for the original movie which is how ILM was born. He may not be the worlds best director, but movies today would not be what they are if not for his vision.

I couldn't agree more. Everything changed. When they were making Star Wars they had to figure everything out and how to do it. They came up with the "PIXAR" computer which Steve Jobs ended up buying I believe. Think of all the things that would not have been created if it weren't for George Lucas and his people. We may have beefs about his directing and writing but we wouldn't have seen a great many things if it weren't for him.

[obiwopkenobi62]

Originally Posted by R3P0

Uh oh thems be fighting words round there parts how dare you admit you like the Trek films!!!!

LOL. Well I am a Star Wars fan first allways, but you gotta admit that those Trek films rocked. JJ is gonna make Star Wars explode and blow away everything. I just know it. I felt a tremor in the Force.....

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by obiwopkenobi62

LOL. Well I am a Star Wars fan first allways, but you gotta admit that those Trek films rocked. JJ is gonna make Star Wars explode and blow away everything. I just know it. I felt a tremor in the Force.....

There has been an awakening....Have you felt it??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOVFvcNfvE&x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534&feature=player_detailpage