Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah, I’m not that way inclined. I just want efficiency and good looks. I was never remotely interested in opening up computers or adding this or that. When the IMac came along it seemed perfect for my needs. (Mostly image editing and just browsing) I have also been very loyal to MacBooks for work and play.

Apples are beautiful to behold and I know that many people who work in the creative arts swear by them, but I need to be able to pop the hood and tinker inside. Being able to do my own repairs, if needed, is a huge advantage for me and being able to do them myself can save me a LOT of money.

The six year-old Windows laptop I am repairing for my sister required a mere outlay of $99 to fix; that buys a new SSD, doubles the memory, and upgrades the OS. I could not do any of this at such a low cost had her laptop been an Apple. Being able to do such repairs and upgrades extends the life of the computer and saves me (her) money over the long term.

For the dollar spent, I can buy more raw computing power with a custom built pc. I built mine from the motherboard up with every dollar going into only what I wanted. I can also keep my pc current by updating key internal components as the need or desire arises. I prefer brawn to beauty for the money involved.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Apples are beautiful to behold and I know that many people who work in the creative arts swear by them, but I need to be able to pop the hood and tinker inside. Being able to do my own repairs, if needed, is a huge advantage for me and being able to do them myself can save me a LOT of money.

The six year-old Windows laptop I am repairing for my sister required a mere outlay of $99 to fix; that buys a new SSD, doubles the memory, and upgrades the OS. I could not do any of this at such a low cost had her laptop been an Apple. Being able to do such repairs and upgrades extends the life of the computer and saves me (her) money over the long term.

For the dollar spent, I can buy more raw computing power with a custom built pc. I built mine from the motherboard up with every dollar going into only what I wanted. I can also keep my pc current by updating key internal components as the need or desire arises. I prefer brawn to beauty for the money involved.

I dare say if I had experienced problems in the past, I maybe would have went that route. However my Imac and laptops have served me well, so......

[Groot]

I haven’t built a PC since 2007. When it needed upgrades I switched to Apple and wouldn’t change back for anything. Yeah I can’t upgrade them as easy but that’s okay. They last a long ass time.

[Vilya]

It time for me to rant about my ISP again! ahead warning!

I logged into my account last tonight and noticed a sharp increase in my bill, so I called the asshats at Mediacom. This shitacular, sucktastic ISP, without any advance notice, raised my bill 30%! I was not on any promotional rate, either, as I have had their "service" for over 3 years. They did agree to delay the price increase for one whole month after I berated them, but that does almost nothing to lessen my displeasure.

Here again is one of my cornerstone reasons for why I will not permit myself to become dependent upon an ISP for my home video entertainment. They can pull this shit whenever they want. I hate monopolies!

Mediascam is the only broadband provider here. The only other option here is glacier slow DSL with speeds of 12 Mbps- which is sufficient for online browsing, shopping, and email, but not adequate for streaming. DSL service is substantially cheaper, but the company offering it has an even worse reputation than Mediaconartist does.

I am tempted to cancel my internet service and use my phone as a mobile hotspot and connect everything to it, but that, too, would mean much slower service and very restrictive data caps. I could also leech off of all of the unsecured wireless networks in my neighborhood. I am amazed by the number of unsecured networks my devices detect.

The long and short of it is that ISPs can, and will, screw you over any chance they can, especially when they are the only provider in a market. My rant is now concluded and thanks for tolerating the venting of my righteous anger.

[dublinbluray108]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It time for me to rant about my ISP again! ahead warning!

I logged into my account last tonight and noticed a sharp increase in my bill, so I called the asshats at Mediacom. This shitacular, sucktastic ISP, without any advance notice, raised my bill 30%! I was not on any promotional rate, either, as I have had their "service" for over 3 years. They did agree to delay the price increase for one whole month after I berated them, but that does almost nothing to lessen my displeasure.

Here again is one of my cornerstone reasons for why I will not permit myself to become dependent upon an ISP for my home video entertainment. They can pull this shit whenever they want. I hate monopolies!

Mediascam is the only broadband provider here. The only other option here is glacier slow DSL with speeds of 12 Mbps- which is sufficient for online browsing, shopping, and email, but not adequate for streaming. DSL service is substantially cheaper, but the company offering it has an even worse reputation than Mediaconartist does.

I am tempted to cancel my internet service and use my phone as a mobile hotspot and connect everything to it, but that, too, would mean much slower service and very restrictive data caps. I could also leech off of all of the unsecured wireless networks in my neighborhood. I am amazed by the number of unsecured networks my devices detect.

The long and short of it is that ISPs can, and will, screw you over any chance they can, especially when they are the only provider in a market. My rant is now concluded and thanks for tolerating the venting of my righteous anger.

I hear your pain; Vilya.

My ISP Eir Mobile only restored my internet connection early on Sunday morning. It was out to a widespread DNS outage from one of their servers.

The outage affected people over all parts of Ireland who were using both Eir Fibre & Eir Mobile services for 12 hours from Saturday afternoon to overnight on Sunday. I never rang customer service over the phone at all as I would have wasted valuable time as they did not bother answering people's queries about the outage that day. People on the other hand had to endure phone calls lasting several minutes or several hours trying to get some advice about why it was not working. Most of those calls were not successful because you would have been abruptly cut off without any explanation from Eir.

Their customer service reputation is incredibly bad with having one of the worst customer service records in Ireland. Their last internet outage was about 3 weeks ago in late September. I don't know what happened there. But the same thing happened again about Eir answering people's calls as in they did not bother their own a*** doing it as they don't care about the quality of the service being rolled out to their customers.

I had a small amount of websites working while this outage happened on Saturday. Blu-ray.com was one of those sites working outside of Ireland.

I read one reply from one person to another one affected by the outage that if they wanted to play music or video during the outage; the advice was to play or resurrect your CD/DVD collection. I suppose in that regard people trying to say that resurrecting your physical media collection was a good thing in this instance other then general browsing on the internet.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I hate monopolies!

2nd that.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Several days ago I asked folks to test their Netflix speeds during prime time using the Netflix app. Here are the results from folks here and AVS that measured real world speeds using actual Netflix severs.

Summary: First speed number is what the user reports using various speed test. The second number is the speed reported by Netflix and using their servers. All speeds are in Mbps.

???, 119 via Fios
210, 33.5
300, 22
230, 19.13 via TV, 92.12 via Blu-ray player

I wish there were more samples but it should be obvious that having a big number between you and your provider does not mean very much in the way of streaming speeds in the real world.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

I read one reply from one person to another one affected by the outage that if they wanted to play music or video during the outage; the advice was to play or resurrect your CD/DVD collection. I suppose in that regard people trying to say that resurrecting your physical media collection was a good thing in this instance other then general browsing on the internet.

No need to "resurrect" anything here. My physical media collection is alive and it thrives. My discs have proven their reliability from the dawn of the compact disc up to and including today's 4K UHD discs.

I personally will NEVER become dependent upon an unscrupulous ISP to watch movies or TV shows. I will not become beholden to a digital content provider, either. The two of them together only compound the likelihood of getting the shaft.

Not only can I rant, I iz defiant!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Several days ago I asked folks to test their Netflix speeds during prime time using the Netflix app. Here are the results from folks here and AVS that measured real world speeds using actual Netflix severs.

Summary: First speed number is what the user reports using various speed test. The second number is the speed reported by Netflix and using their servers. All speeds are in Mbps.

???, 119 via Fios
210, 33.5
300, 22
230, 19.13 via TV, 92.12 via Blu-ray player

I wish there were more samples but it should be obvious that having a big number between you and your provider does not mean very much in the way of streaming speeds in the real world.

Your ISP can offer the autobahn, but it does little good if the content providers choose to drive a Yugo on it.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Apples are beautiful to behold and I know that many people who work in the creative arts swear by them, but I need to be able to pop the hood and tinker inside. Being able to do my own repairs, if needed, is a huge advantage for me and being able to do them myself can save me a LOT of money.

The six year-old Windows laptop I am repairing for my sister required a mere outlay of $99 to fix; that buys a new SSD, doubles the memory, and upgrades the OS. I could not do any of this at such a low cost had her laptop been an Apple. Being able to do such repairs and upgrades extends the life of the computer and saves me (her) money over the long term.

For the dollar spent, I can buy more raw computing power with a custom built pc. I built mine from the motherboard up with every dollar going into only what I wanted. I can also keep my pc current by updating key internal components as the need or desire arises. I prefer brawn to beauty for the money involved.

Agree 100%. I have used and supported Mac's in my job and am not a fan. At my last job they gave me an iPhone and it did nothing to change my opinion of Apple. They are way too restrictive with what can be done to their products. Plus you're paying at least $500 more for a shiny Apple logo on the case when compared to similarly capable hardware. To each his (or her) own I guess.

I built my current PC back in 2011, and apart from installing SSD's and a newer graphics card have not had to make any changes. It still runs perfectly and I can play (almost) any game in 2K at max settings. I'm looking at parts for a new build but only because my processor is so old. I will re-purpose my current one into a media server and have no doubt it will run for many more years.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I wish there were more samples but it should be obvious that having a big number between you and your provider does not mean very much in the way of streaming speeds in the real world.

I think Adaptive Streaming plays a big part in Real World Speeds, where the Download Speed adjusts to your Bandwidth. Now you have to survey the people that have Degradation and Poor Streaming Quality, what they all have in common. Like you said, I think it's more than big ISP Numbers.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Your ISP can offer the autobahn, but it does little good if the content providers choose to drive a Yugo on it.

I guess you guys don't like your ISP's, and I'm kind of lucky to have an Independent one. I've had large Monopolies like Time Warner and AT&T, but I have always had better results working problems out with them. Like today the Internet was out for a couple of hours, and we rely heavily on it. So after recycling the Router and checking my Sony Streaming Apps, I concluded the Internet was down hard. I had to use my MS Phone, because my Ooma Land Line was down too. I called Cable Systems Support, and the Tech said there was no major outage. He asked for my Address and saw my Node had a Card error, he cleared it but I was still down. So he said he would check with the Engineers and let me know. Within the half hour I was back up and working.

I know people don't want to think of the Internet as a Utility, but those days are gone. We rely so much on the Internet now, even your Disc buying. People are cutting The Cord and going OTA or OTT. I keep saying there's going to be a rude awakening, and Streaming will take over all you have to do is look around. So you better start looking for that ideal ISP!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I keep saying there's going to be a rude awakening, and Streaming will take over all you have to do is look around. So you better start looking for that ideal ISP!

Not with me, not ever. Internet dependence for home video entertainment is the fate you choose for yourself and you are welcome to it. My ISP can shove their 30% price hike right up their you know what & where twisting as they go.

For everything EXCEPT streaming, I could actually get by with what my phone provides now. Or, like I said, there are plenty of people who leave their wireless networks open to "guests."

If the day ever comes when I can not buy my content on physical media, I will stand to save about $500 per month. I will then indeed need the internet to acquire the content I want, and acquire it I shall, but not in the manner "they" expect.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I keep saying there's going to be a rude awakening, and Streaming will take over all you have to do is look around. So you better start looking for that ideal ISP!

While I don't deny that streaming is growing, if reliable internet takes THAT much effort to come by, obtain, and maintain, then that will do more to make people at least a little more weary of relying on streaming entirely/exclusively.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I think Adaptive Streaming plays a big part in Real World Speeds, where the Download Speed adjusts to your Bandwidth. Now you have to survey the people that have Degradation and Poor Streaming Quality, what they all have in common. Like you said, I think it's more than big ISP Numbers.

Adaptive streaming only utilizes 16 Mbps of that bandwidth, period. The major streaming providers offer 4K streams at no more than 16 Mbps whether you have 25 Mbps download speed with your ISP or whether you have 1 Gbps download speed with your ISP. You have been shown time and time again a chart that give the speeds of each of the major streaming providers, but you continually choose to ignore it and instead believe in this magical notion of adaptive streaming doing far, far more than it actually does.

To this very day, Netflix and others only require 25 Mbps while some, like Sony Ultra, only require 15-20 Mbps, to stream their highly compressed 4K content. Vudu recommends a mere 11 Mbps for their 4K content. These requirements have not changed in over a year because the bitrates they offer remain unchanged as well.

"The max I could ever get Netflix to pull down was 16000 kbps (right at 7 GB per hour), which is the max they publish in the “high” setting."

https://www.howtogeek.com/338983/how...s-netflix-use/

Netflix internet speed recommendations by resolution level:

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306

Sony Ultra recommends internet speed of 15-20 Mbps:

https://www.lifewire.com/sony-4k-ult...eaming-4018634 (article dated Aug. 31, 2018, see last paragraph)

Vudu requires just 11 Mbps to stream 4K:

http://speedtest.vudu.com/

None of the major streaming providers exceed 16 Mbps:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/wher...es-and-content

^And for the hundredth time, rtings.com updates their articles when NEEDED. If that isn't obvious enough for you, note that the ISP speed recommendations for ALL of these services are unchanged as well and vary from just 11 Mbps for Vudu, 15-20 Mbps for Sony Ultra, and 25 Mbps for Netflix- same as it was last year, same as it is NOW.

All facts, no magic.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Adaptive streaming only utilizes 16 Mbps of that bandwidth, period. The major streaming providers offer 4K streams at no more than 16 Mbps whether you have 25 Mbps download speed with your ISP or whether you have 1 Gbps download speed with your ISP. You have been shown time and time again a chart that give the speeds of each of the major streaming providers, but you continually choose to ignore it and instead believe in this magical notion of adaptive streaming doing far, far more than it actually does.

To this very day, Netflix and others only require 25 Mbps while some, like Sony Ultra, only require 15-20 Mbps, to stream their highly compressed 4K content. Vudu recommends a mere 11 Mbps for their 4K content. These requirements have not changed in over a year because the bitrates they offer remain unchanged as well.

"The max I could ever get Netflix to pull down was 16000 kbps (right at 7 GB per hour), which is the max they publish in the “high” setting."

https://www.howtogeek.com/338983/how...s-netflix-use/

Netflix internet speed recommendations by resolution level:

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306

Sony Ultra recommends internet speed of 15-20 Mbps:

https://www.lifewire.com/sony-4k-ult...eaming-4018634 (article dated Aug. 31, 2018, see last paragraph))

Vudu requires just 11 Mbps to stream 4K:

http://speedtest.vudu.com/

None of the major streaming providers exceed 16 Mbps:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/wher...es-and-content

^And for the hundredth time, rtings.com updates their articles when NEEDED. If that isn't obvious enough for you, note that the ISP speed recommendations for ALL of these services are unchanged as well and vary from just 11 Mbps for Vudu, 15-20 Mbps for Sony Ultra, and 25 Mbps for Netflix- same as it was last year, same as it is NOW.

All facts, no magic.

Which is barely enough for high quality full HD, let alone 4K.

I revisited Rocky on Blu-ray last night and it dawned on me that no streaming service could give us this type of transfer. A decades old film with a heavy grain structure, handled beautifully with inky blacks and sharp detail that made the film look as good as when I first saw it at the cinema. It looks great projected.
If you give that up for convenience and consider yourself a film fanatic, I feel you really are selling your soul.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Which is barely enough for high quality full HD, let alone 4K.

I revisited Rocky on Blu-ray last night and it dawned on me that no streaming service could give us this type of transfer. A decades old film with a heavy grain structure, handled beautifully with inky blacks and sharp detail that made the film look as good as when I first saw it at the cinema. It looks great projected.
If you give that up for convenience and consider yourself a film fanatic, I feel you really are selling your soul.

That's why I go to church.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Groot

That's why I go to church.

Honestly, the fact someone who loves films would rather watch a 3-4 Mbps stream on their large tv than a high bit rate Blu-ray makes me want to weep for humanity Groot. That’s honestly how I feel.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Honestly, the fact someone who loves films would rather watch a 3-4 Mbps stream on their large tv than a high bit rate Blu-ray makes me want to weep for humanity Groot. That’s honestly how I feel.

It'll be okay. Just keep sitting farther away and it won't bother you so much.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I think Adaptive Streaming plays a big part in Real World Speeds

You, go to the blackboard and write 1000 times, “adaptive streaming is only needed because internet speeds from the CDN to my house are unreliable. Most all other data delivery methods deliver known data rates therefore do not require adaptive data rates.”

Why do you even comment on these subjects when you don’t have a clue what the data rates are from your providers? As of now, ONLY Netflix provides a method of checking internet speeds with test files and a test within their app. They offer a month of no cost trial, why have you not taken advantage of this just to use their testing?

For reference, I did a couple of spot checks of Van Helsing UHD BD last night and the video bit rates would go as high as 80 Mbps and the DTS:X audio was continuous 5 Mbps with some bump up in speeds.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Just started watching the new season of Cable Girls (UHD) via Netflix and the data rate was 15 Mbps. The previous seasons were 16 Mbps. Some members at AVS had mentioned other Netflix UHD shows being 15 Mbps. They said some shows were switching to 2160 at 7 Mbps and maxed at 15 Mbps.