Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

https://reel-librarians.com/2017/02/...in-rollerball/

Possible future (with movies only on central servers):

That movie has been summarized (not politically correct content removed)
by the Computer.

Kirk Bayne

Yep, I have already covered this but no one seemed that bothered. Once they have that level of control, they can do what they like really. Anything remotely risky will be removed,, especially with A.I coming into play. Safe and bland will be the order of the day. We are living more and more in Nanny states now imo. eventually the art in film will be removed altogether. Dumb blockbusters for dumb audiences imo.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I watch some of the special features, deleted and alternate scenes in particular, the trailers, and anything that delves more into the story itself such as supplemental documentaries, but I have not listened to the feature length audio commentaries. I will sometimes watch interviews with the creative talent and I do enjoy the silly little gag reels when they are offered. I do not watch the technical special features that often, how the movie was filmed, etc., unless there was something amazingly challenging about making the movie.

I enjoy some of the special features too, but there are many films I have where I've just not got around to seeing them. For movies I really love (which are numerous admittedly), I usually make a point of watching deleted scenes and alternate endings, including any accompanying documentaries.

Feature length audio commentaries I enjoy as well, but this really depends who is doing it. If it's from a director or producer, this can give you a great insight into the scenes and general making of the film. However, when it comes to commentaries from actors/actresses, I've sometimes switched off partway through because there were long periods of silence in between one or two short remarks which didn't really offer anything of interest.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

https://reel-librarians.com/2017/02/...in-rollerball/

Possible future (with movies only on central servers):

That movie has been summarized (not politically correct content removed)
by the Computer.

Kirk Bayne

First, we had the Book of Revelations. Now we have the Book of Rollerball and all it forebodes.

Somehow, I don't think I will lose any sleep over it.

[Forestt]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

https://reel-librarians.com/2017/02/...in-rollerball/

Possible future (with movies only on central servers):

That movie has been summarized (not politically correct content removed)
by the Computer.

Kirk Bayne

I doubt it. The internet is too strong and vocal to prevent that from happening.

I have no doubt we can be manipulated by movies (or other media) in a way but what is being said in that article is just not possible with the internet. I also think most people hate political correct stuff, especially in films/series or books and games.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

As usual, you have it backwards. Vilya and myself mostly refer to the maximum bit rates from streaming providers.

Tell you what, I will procure a Netflix gift card and give you the redeeming code so you can see first hand the streaming info they provide. After the gift card expires you can continue to be a sub or cancel. It is real easy to do this on their site. So, what do you say?

Well I broke down and got Netflix for 30 days, and I was afraid I might want to keep it longer. I use to belong to Netflix many years ago when they first started renting DVD's, they were in Los Gatos, CA. I watched Like Father with Kristen Bell and Kelsey Grammer, good Movie. I also want to watch the last Series of Shameless. Anyway my test results are below, the HD came in real nice with no problems.

Servers: 1-2-3
Speed: 12.15Mbps
ISP Speed: 75/50Mbps

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yep, I have already covered this but no one seemed that bothered. Once they have that level of control, they can do what they like really. Anything remotely risky will be removed,, especially with A.I coming into play. Safe and bland will be the order of the day. We are living more and more in Nanny states now imo. eventually the art in film will be removed altogether. Dumb blockbusters for dumb audiences imo.

George Orwell found a believer in you, eh?

Life is not all Shakespeare and Chaucer; you need some Stephen King and Louis L'amour, too.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well I broke down and got Netflix for 30 days, and I was afraid I might want to keep it longer.

Good for you! A gift card has been ordered that should cover 1 month of their 4K service. I will send you the redeem code via Blu-ray.COM PM once it is received. I hope you signed up for their 4K service. Make sure you go to your profile, select Playback Settings and check the High radio button. You will need to do this for each profile if you have more than one.

From an earlier post: search for Test Pattern (UHD) and the El Fuente series of clips (some in UHD). They will show several video and audio parameters including the bit rate. Make sure to start from the beginning if you want to see how long it takes to reach the max bit rate.

My Sony BDP-S6700 BD player and UBP-X800 UHD BD player will display Play Time, Resolution and Bit Rate if you press the Info button while playing content from Netflix. I suspect your Sony TV will do the same.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

George Orwell found a believer in you, eh?

Life is not all Shakespeare and Chaucer; you need some Stephen King and Louis L'amour, too.

Oh, I have plenty Stephen King, believe me.

[alchav21]

After watching Shameless last night I took readings, and the Speed had gone up.

Servers: 1-2-3
Net Speed: 24.11Mbps
ISP Speed: 75/50Mbps

So this latest Bitrate shows it's a lot more than 16Mbps, and I still say it goes up according to your Bandwidth and Content being shown.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

After watching Shameless last night I took readings, and the Speed had gone up.

Servers: 1-2-3
Net Speed: 24.11Mbps
ISP Speed: 75/50Mbps

So this latest Bitrate shows it's a lot more than 16Mbps, and I still say it goes up according to your Bandwidth and Content being shown.

The "Net Speed" is just the speed of the connection between you and Netflix. Netflix does not stream at a bitrate over 16 Mbps. I KNEW you would misunderstand these results.

When troubleshooting issues with my ISP, they have me run speed tests at their own speed test website as opposed to those that are generally available because they want to know the connection speed between me and my ISP's servers, not the speed between me and someone else's servers. This is why ISPs, Netflix, Vudu, and others have their very own speed test websites or apps: it is for determining the connection speed between you and them specifically.

You should know all of this with your background, but clearly you do not. You are not able to differentiate a speed test between a customer and a content provider versus that of a speed test between a customer and their ISP. You do not know what adaptive streaming does, either. Just because adaptive streaming adjusts according to the bandwidth your ISP provides in no way means that it utilizes ALL of the ISP's bandwidth. It will only adjust up to the maximum bitrate of the streaming content provider: 16 Mbps for Netflix and even less for others.

I could more than double my internet speed if I was willing to pay for it; doing so would not increase the bitrate I receive from any streaming content provider. A 16 Mbps bitrate is the MOST that any of the major streaming content providers offer.

If Netflix offered bitrates in the range of 24+ Mbps, then they would also have to recommend a faster connection than just 25 Mbps to view their streamed content. Why isn't that obvious to you? Netflix only recommends 25 Mbps for their 4K streams. Multiple sources state that Netflix streams at most at 16 Mbps, nothing higher.

"The max I could ever get Netflix to pull down was 16000 kbps (right at 7 GB per hour), which is the max they publish in the “high” setting."

The author (and news editor for the website itself) of this article made the above statement:

https://www.howtogeek.com/338983/how...s-netflix-use/

From Netflix itself:

"Below are the internet download speed recommendations per stream for playing TV shows and movies through Netflix:

25 Megabits per second - Recommended for Ultra HD quality."

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

After watching Shameless last night I took readings, and the Speed had gone up.

Oh man , dude, during prime time, start Shameless again, on your remote press Info and the Netflix overlay should appear in the upper left corner of your screen. It will show elapsed time, resolution and bit rate for the content being watched.

Did you look at the Test Pattern yet? It will look like this:

[Show spoiler]

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Oh man , dude, during prime time, start Shameless again, on your remote press Info and the Netflix overlay should appear in the upper left corner of your screen. It will show elapsed time, resolution and bit rate for the content being watched.

Did you look at the Test Pattern yet? It will look like this:

[Show spoiler]

The exact same test pattern used by the author of the article I cited; the author that states he never got a bitrate above 16 Mbps.

You might need to point out that the bitrate received is the first value listed in the upper right hand corner of that test pattern so as not to confuse it with the frames per second result.

I am afraid you may have handed a caliper to the blind here.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I am afraid you may have handed a caliper to the blind here.

It must be my writing style , I do seem to have a difficult time in getting folks to follow the steps necessary to collect data.

If folks really want to see info like that of the following screen shot then click here.

[Show spoiler]

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

It must be my writing style , I do seem to have a difficult time in getting folks to follow the steps necessary to collect data.

If folks really want to see info like that of the following screen shot then click here.

[Show spoiler]

What you wrote is clear enough, but when reading something it helps if a person does so without looking for what they want to see. Collecting data requires both comprehension of what is being collected and objectivity towards those findings.

Providing certain parties with even more detailed information will only cause them more confusion. You don't take a 400 level college course when you haven't mastered the 100 level course.

I am tempted to reactive my Netflix account just to see if I can follow your instructions and to see what results I get. It would help if I had any interest in their current offerings.

[Show spoiler]I am joking; your instructions are easy to understand.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

What you wrote is clear enough, but when reading something it helps if a person does so without looking for what they want to see.

I looked up his TV to see what his remote looks like. It does not have a Info button so I would guess the Display button will bring up the desired info. Its possible the Help button or one of the cursor buttons would do this.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I looked up his TV to see what his remote looks like. It does not have a Info button so I would guess the Display button will bring up the desired info. Its possible the Help button or one of the cursor buttons would do this.

My tv remote does not have an info or display button, either. Must be classified intel. Even so, there must be an easy way to access that test pattern.

Apparently if you just do a Netflix search for "test patterns", like you would search for any show, you will reach a selection of test patterns for shows offered at different resolutions. In this instance, it seems that the content tested is picked for you. Not ideal, but sufficient to show the bitrates received by resolution level.

https://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?t=101249

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I looked up his TV to see what his remote looks like. It does not have a Info button so I would guess the Display button will bring up the desired info. Its possible the Help button or one of the cursor buttons would do this.

Thanks again Wendell for the Gift Card, and I'm getting Premium UHD. I think you guys unleashed a Monster, but I will keep testing and see if I can get those actual Bitrates. I'm sure they are at the max, because the PQ comes in real nice with no Degradation. I'll have to check the UHD 4K. I think those Test Patterns give set maximum Bitrates, and doesn't give the Bitrate of the actual content.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I think those Test Patterns give set maximum Bitrates, and doesn't give the Bitrate of the actual content.

A test pattern that doesn't yield actual test results would be a pointless test. Of course it shows the actual bitrate received for the content being tested; it would be a worthless exercise otherwise. Technical websites would not cite these test patterns in their published articles on the subject if they did not give real results.

Why run a test if the results have already been pre-determined? That makes NO sense.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Vilya

First, we had the Book of Revelations. Now we have the Book of Rollerball and all it forebodes.

Somehow, I don't think I will lose any sleep over it.

I'm not losing any sleep over it either but...

Originally Posted by Forestt

I doubt it. The internet is too strong and vocal to prevent that from happening.

I have no doubt we can be manipulated by movies (or other media) in a way but what is being said in that article is just not possible with the internet. I also think most people hate political correct stuff, especially in films/series or books and games.

...I'm not dismissing concerns like this out of hand either.

I don't envision some dystopian future in which our evil corporate overlords pore over films and television shows excising objectionable or subversive content -but- it's not that hard to imagine a future in which well-intentioned or financially motivated entities offer 'sanitized' versions of films and televisions shows that excise various offensive content.

We already have that with broadcast tv. Different networks will edit out words they think their audiences will find offensive. Try watching something as benign as Frasier reruns on the Hallmark Channel. Some of the edits are very stuffy.

Will that ever morph into a future where edited versions and the edited versions alone will be the only way to watch films or tv shows?

I doubt it but it's not entirely crazy.

Originally Posted by Vilya

George Orwell found a believer in you, eh

If you don't believe Orwell you haven't been awake for the last several years

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by octagon

I'm not losing any sleep over it either but...



...I'm not dismissing concerns like this out of hand either.

I don't envision some dystopian future in which our evil corporate overlords pore over films and television shows excising objectionable or subversive content -but- it's not that hard to imagine a future in which well-intentioned or financially motivated entities offer 'sanitized' versions of films and televisions shows that excise various offensive content.

We already have that with broadcast tv. Different networks will edit out words they think their audiences will find offensive. Try watching something as benign as Frasier reruns on the Hallmark Channel. Some of the edits are very stuffy.

Will that ever morph into a future where edited versions and the edited versions alone will be the only way to watch films or tv shows?

I doubt it but it's not entirely crazy.



If you don't believe Orwell you haven't been awake for the last several years

You just gave the conspiracy theorists an inch; they will take the whole mile.

TV has always censored content to varying degrees, during both its initial run and in syndication. Nothing new there.

It may not be entirely crazy, but it has a room reserved at the asylum just the same.