Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You just gave the conspiracy theorists an inch; they will take the whole mile.

Maybe but if they have a point, they have a point. The people who think 9/11 was an inside job are clearly nuts but that doesn't mean that governments don't do evil shit.

Originally Posted by Vilya

TV has always censored content to varying degrees, during both its initial run and in syndication. Nothing new there.

Sure, TV has cropped and edited movies for content and duration and commercial breaks and whatnot for as long as movies have been shown on TV. What would be new is if sanitized versions of movies or TV shows were to become the only versions of those movies or TV shows available to the public.

Will that ever happen? No, I don't think it will.

Could it happen? Absolutely. If Disney really wants to excise Song of the South from their library they could do that given enough time. A version of the future in which fewer and fewer and fewer people are able to watch Song of the South is really not that hard to envision.

My gut says that won't happen but it definitely could.

Originally Posted by Vilya

It may not be entirely crazy, but it has a room reserved at the asylum just the same.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Maybe but if they have a point, they have a point. The people who think 9/11 was an inside job are clearly nuts but that doesn't mean that governments don't do evil shit.



Sure, TV has cropped and edited movies for content and duration and commercial breaks and whatnot for as long as movies have been shown on TV. What would be new is if sanitized versions of movies or TV shows were to become the only versions of those movies or TV shows available to the public.

Will that ever happen? No, I don't think it will.

Could it happen? Absolutely. If Disney really wants to excise Song of the South from their library they could do that given enough time. A version of the future in which fewer and fewer and fewer people are able to watch Song of the South is really not that hard to envision.

My gut says that won't happen but it definitely could.

This is a very different tune to your answers when I pushed this idea a while back. I basically said everything would be PG or PG-13 also and that horror movies wouldn’t survive such a transition, how could they? Is this just selective hearing on your part?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Thanks again Wendell for the Gift Card, and I'm getting Premium UHD.

Quite welcome. No, the Test Patterns show what you are getting. I have explained this several times, just look at the data in the upper right corner.

If you do not know how to access the Netflix info (some call it debug) for your TV then ask in the TV section and maybe someone can help you. Remember, a show has to be playing for this to work. This not very good but you should get the idea:

Quick Tech Tip | How To Remove Netflix Info Text (Top Left Corner) - YouTube

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by octagon

Maybe but if they have a point, they have a point. The people who think 9/11 was an inside job are clearly nuts but that doesn't mean that governments don't do evil shit.



Sure, TV has cropped and edited movies for content and duration and commercial breaks and whatnot for as long as movies have been shown on TV. What would be new is if sanitized versions of movies or TV shows were to become the only versions of those movies or TV shows available to the public.

Will that ever happen? No, I don't think it will.

Could it happen? Absolutely. If Disney really wants to excise Song of the South from their library they could do that given enough time. A version of the future in which fewer and fewer and fewer people are able to watch Song of the South is really not that hard to envision.

My gut says that won't happen but it definitely could.

[Show spoiler]

People are certainly capable of evil and governments are human institutions, but stating that because some evil has been done means that any evil can, or will, be done remains a stretch.

I have a physical copy of Song Of The South; many other people do as well. I also own the unaltered Star Wars trilogy as well as titles that some find offensive like Caligula, Salo, A Clockwork Orange, Urotsukidoji: The Birth Of The Overfiend to name just a few. By having these all on physical media, I do not have to worry about the remote possibility of titles such as these being sanitized or excised altogether. The content on my discs are frozen in amber.

We have the greatest and most convenient access to information that there has ever been. If a person wants to know the truth about most anything, all they need to do is look for it AND be willing to accept what they find.

The problem, though is that there is a huge amount of misinformation out there as well, much of it deliberate and much of it just willful ignorance. In the absence of critical thinking skills, some people can not distinguish between facts and fiction. It is oh so easy to find tailor made echo chambers where our beliefs, even our fears, are steadily and constantly reinforced.

Vigilance is required and the vigilant will see that the truth prevails, or, at the minimum, that it survives.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

People are certainly capable of evil and governments are human institutions, but stating that because some evil has been done means that any evil can, or will, be done remains a stretch.

I have a physical copy of Song Of The South; many other people do as well. I also own the unaltered Star Wars trilogy as well as titles that some find offensive like Caligula, Salo, A Clockwork Orange, Urotsukidoji: The Birth Of The Overfiend to name a just a few. By having these all on physical media, I do not have to worry about the remote possibility of titles such as these being sanitized or excised altogether. The content on my discs are frozen in amber.

We have the greatest and most convenient access to information that there has ever been. If a person wants to know the truth about most anything, all they need to do is look for it AND be willing to accept what they find.

The problem, though is that there is a huge amount of misinformation out there as well, much of it deliberate and much of it just willful ignorance. In the absence of critical thinking skills, some people can not distinguish between facts and fiction. It is oh so easy to find tailor made echo chambers where our beliefs, even our fears, are steadily and constantly reinforced.

Vigilance is required and the vigilant will see that the truth prevails.

I came across resistance last time I brought this up and I believe Flyry posted a foil hat gif and said I was getting more absurd by the week. Well come on, Flyry. Let’s see what you think of Octagon saying this. Let’s be fair. Does he have a tin foil hat problem?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I came across resistance last time I brought this up and I believe Flyry posted a foil hat gif and said I was getting more absurd by the week. Well come on, Flyry. Let’s see what you think of Octagon saying this. Let’s be fair. Does he have a tin foil hat problem?

Why are you quoting me while referencing Octagon and when addressing flyry?

I believe Octagon is saying that this one issue is remotely possible and you are reading it as him saying that it is probable. Acknowledging a remote possibility is nowhere near the same thing as making a prediction that something is likely to occur.

Lots of things could happen; that doesn't mean that they are likely to happen.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Why are you quoting me while referencing Octagon and when addressing flyry?

I believe Octagon is saying that this one issue is remotely possible and you are reading it as him saying that it is probable. Acknowledging a remote possibility is nowhere near the same thing as making a prediction that something is likely to occur.

Lots of things could happen; that doesn't mean that they are likely to happen.

Because him and you are amongst the biggest (in my opinion) piss takers in this thread, that’s why. Also you were talking about censorship.

[Steedeel]

Ok, ignore that. I will put the question to you. Does Octagon need a tin foil hat?

Isn’t saying something is a possibility just fence sitting? I’m calling it, it will happen. Disney, Apple, Facebook? Yep, I see that happening and by all accounts, it already is with Apple’s planned streaming service.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Because him and you are amongst the biggest (in my opinion) piss takers in this thread, that’s why. Also you were talking about censorship.

If calling us this name comforts you, so be it. We can take it. These tactics are, however, the refuge of those who find themselves in an indefensible position of their own making. You cling to predictions that you can not factually support and become agitated and defensive when this inability is pointed out.

Readers Digest offered, maybe still does, condensed books. Yet, I can still read my uncensored copy of the controversial novel The Story Of "O" by Pauline Reage (real name Anne Desclos) as I can with all of the books that Reader Digest actually condensed. I doubt they would even come near that novel.

If the Hallmark channel wants to present a happier account of Caesar Caligula by editing the (in)famous movie about him, that does not cause the unedited version to vanish nor does it herald this fate for all films in general. It is the difference in dealing in absolutes versus evaluating probabilities.

Remote possibility versus likely outcome; it is a concept that enables bookies to establish odds on near anything upon which you may care to place a bet. It is the difference between dealing in absolutes, seemingly your preference, and evaluating probabilities based upon the likelihood of them occurring.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If calling us this name comforts you, so be it. We can take it. These tactics are, however, the refuge of those who find themselves in an indefensible position of their own making. You cling to predictions that you can not factually support and become agitated and defensive when this inability is pointed out.

Readers Digest offered, maybe still does, condensed books. Yet, I can still read my uncensored copy of the controversial novel The Story Of "O" by Pauline Reage (real name Anne Desclos) as I can with all of the books that Reader Digest condensed.

If the Hallmark channel wants to present a happier account of Caesar Caligula by editing the (in)famous move about him, that does not cause the unedited version to vanish nor does it herald this fate for all films in general.

Remote possibility versus likely outcome; it is a concept that enables bookies to establish odds on near anything upon which you may care to place a bet.

Yes but past generations didn’t have Film and Tv’s ‘trial by social media’. I have insisted all along, supporting Digital films is an enabler for this bull.

And who the heck can ‘prove’ a future prediction. I can only do that when it happens. Which it will.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

This is a very different tune to your answers when I pushed this idea a while back. I basically said everything would be PG or PG-13 also and that horror movies wouldn’t survive such a transition, how could they? Is this just selective hearing on your part?

No, it's selective hearing on your part.

I don't think these things are going to happen. I don't think future societies will only be able to watch older movies in which CGI has been used to airbrush out cigarettes or offensive language has been removed or replaced.

I don't think corporations have any real interest in being culture cops or arbiters of what we may or may not see or hear or read.

R Rated movies and horror movies aren't going anywhere because people like them. People like to make them and people like to watch them.

A future in which Apple or Amazon offer only PG versions of Halloween or Die Hard just ain't gonna happen.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have a physical copy of Song Of The South; many other people do as well. I also own the unaltered Star Wars trilogy as well as titles that some find offensive like Caligula, Salo, A Clockwork Orange, Urotsukidoji: The Birth Of The Overfiend to name a just a few. By having these all on physical media, I do not have to worry about the remote possibility of titles such as these being sanitized or excised altogether. The content on my discs are frozen in amber.

Absent replenishment of some sort there will be fewer and fewer copies of Song of the South out in the wild and fewer and fewer people will be able to watch it.

Try finding a copy of an original Hardy Boys book that hasn't been edited to remove racial content. They're increasingly rare and most people - including avid fans of the characters who grew up with the 50s/60s editions - don't even know they exist or how much the books were changed to account for evolving sensibilities.

Does this mean entire movies will be deemed Culturally Insensitive and interred in some vault never to be seen again? No, probably not.

But the idea that movies in their original form are frozen in amber and will forever be available - pure and untouched - to future generations is not a given.

Do I think it likely that movies in their original form will be available to future generations? Yeah, I do. For the most part content owners are responsible stewards of their respective libraries and preservation is taken seriously by both the private and public sectors.

But it's not a lock.

The idea that kids down the road might never see Han shoot first doesn't keep me up nights but I can't say with any certainty that they will be able to see Han shoot first.

I hope they will. But...

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes but past generations didn’t have Film and Tv’s ‘trial by social media’. I have insisted all along, supporting Digital films is an enabler for this bull.

Past generations still had social centers of their own where word of mouth could, and did, spread like wildfire, yet the arts have survived as they will with social media.

Social media is not inherently evil, any more than any platform is; social media has accomplished great good as well. Fundraising after tragedies, large and small, is just one such example where social media benefits people.

Someone wanting to watch a movie via a digital vehicle such as streaming does not mean they are also complacent gullible ignoramuses who accept anything they are given. Many of the digital advocates who post in this thread have more than demonstrated both their intellect and their indomitable wills. You must not assume that digital consumers are somehow cognitively inferior due to their choice of access to the cinematic arts.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

No, it's selective hearing on your part.

I don't think these things are going to happen. I don't think future societies will only be able to watch older movies in which CGI has been used to airbrush out cigarettes or offensive language has been removed or replaced.

I don't think corporations have any real interest in being culture cops or arbiters of what we may or may not see or hear or read.

R Rated movies and horror movies aren't going anywhere because people like them. People like to make them and people like to watch them.

A future in which Apple or Amazon offer only PG versions of Halloween or Die Hard just ain't gonna happen.



Absent replenishment of some sort there will be fewer and fewer copies of Song of the South out in the wild and fewer and fewer people will be able to watch it.

Try finding a copy of an original Hardy Boys book that hasn't been edited to remove racial content. They're increasingly rare and most people - including avid fans of the characters who grew up with the 50s/60s editions - don't even know they exist or how much the books were changed to account for evolving sensibilities.

Does this mean entire movies will be deemed Culturally Insensitive and interred in some vault never to be seen again? No, probably not.

But the idea that movies in their original form are frozen in amber and will forever be available - pure and untouched - to future generations is not a given.

Do I think it likely that movies in their original form will be available to future generations? Yeah, I do. For the most part content owners are responsible stewards of their respective libraries and preservation is taken seriously by both the private and public sectors.

But it's not a lock.

The idea that kids down the road might never see Han shoot first doesn't keep me up nights but I can't say with any certainty that they will be able to see Han shoot first.

I hope they will. But...

Ain’t gonna happen? Didn’t you say it’s s possibility just then? Sanitised version and only the sanitised version? Ring a bell?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Ain’t gonna happen? Didn’t you say it’s s possibility just then? Sanitised version and only the sanitised version? Ring a bell?

That does ring a bell. So does 'Will that ever happen? No, I don't think it will'.

Is it possible Amazon and Apple will offer PG and only PG versions of Halloween or Die Hard? Sure. Is it possible the Chicago White Sox will win the World Series next year? Absolutely.

But none of those things are going to happen.

Here's the thing: we both see a slippery slope here.

But where I see a shallow incline along which a series of relatively benign actions can lead to undesirable outcomes you see a fire pole covered in pig fat.

I think mine is more reasonable but who knows.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by octagon

No, it's selective hearing on your part.

I don't think these things are going to happen. I don't think future societies will only be able to watch older movies in which CGI has been used to airbrush out cigarettes or offensive language has been removed or replaced.

I don't think corporations have any real interest in being culture cops or arbiters of what we may or may not see or hear or read.

R Rated movies and horror movies aren't going anywhere because people like them. People like to make them and people like to watch them.

A future in which Apple or Amazon offer only PG versions of Halloween or Die Hard just ain't gonna happen.






Absent replenishment of some sort there will be fewer and fewer copies of Song of the South out in the wild and fewer and fewer people will be able to watch it.

Try finding a copy of an original Hardy Boys book that hasn't been edited to remove racial content. They're increasingly rare and most people - including avid fans of the characters who grew up with the 50s/60s editions - don't even know they exist or how much the books were changed to account for evolving sensibilities.

Does this mean entire movies will be deemed Culturally Insensitive and interred in some vault never to be seen again? No, probably not.

But the idea that movies in their original form are frozen in amber and will forever be available - pure and untouched - to future generations is not a given.

Do I think it likely that movies in their original form will be available to future generations? Yeah, I do. For the most part content owners are responsible stewards of their respective libraries and preservation is taken seriously by both the private and public sectors.

But it's not a lock.

The idea that kids down the road might never see Han shoot first doesn't keep me up nights but I can't say with any certainty that they will be able to see Han shoot first.

I hope they will. But...

I am not well informed about The Hardy Boys novels, but I bet any determined person could find the original editions- if they knew of their existence, naturally. It was my determination that enabled me to acquire Song Of The South.

There has been an oft revived effort to squash The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn in some less enlightened circles, but these novels have endured despite them. Similar efforts were made regarding D.W. Griffith's The Birth of A Nation; it, too, is readily available. These two novels and this one film alone have survived more than a century of attempts to edit them or to even destroy them.

Each individual that owns an original uncensored copy of a novel or a film is helping to preserve that novel or film, wittingly or not. There are so many of us doing this that I have no perceptible murmurs of the slightest worry that either are in danger of being modified to suit any prevailing temporal agenda of the day.

Star Wars is debated with near religious fervor; every detail scrutinized and argued over. I am confident that the original firing order of Han Solo's encounter with Greedo will be well preserved.

I think the odds strongly favor the preservation of the arts, also.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

That does ring a bell. So does 'Will that ever happen? No, I don't think it will'.

Is it possible Amazon and Apple will offer PG and only PG versions of Halloween or Die Hard? Sure. Is it possible the Chicago White Sox will win the World Series next year? Absolutely.

But none of those things are going to happen.

Here's the thing: we both see a slippery slope here.

But where I see a shallow incline along which a series of relatively benign actions can lead to undesirable outcomes you see a fire pole covered in pig fat.

I think mine is more reasonable but who knows.

Well, it’s certainly the safe option. However, my stuff needs to be said. It will be well documented in time.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Each individual that owns an original uncensored copy of a novel or a film is helping to preserve that novel or film, wittingly or not. There are so many of us doing this that I have no perceptible murmurs of the slightest worry that either are in danger of being modified to suit any prevailing temporal agenda of the day.

Twenty or thirty years from now will film lovers be able to fire up a copy of All the Right Moves complete with a fully frontally nude Leah Thompson?

Maybe. But maybe not.

Sure, there will still be people who say 'that's not just a high school student's pubic hair, that's art' and there will likely still be people who say it's basically kiddie porn.

And the powers that be could very easily just shrug and decide that's not the hill they want to lose money on.

Will there be the odd unedited DVD floating around? Sure. But fewer and fewer of them in fewer and fewer hands.

Will rips still be available online? Maybe, but maybe not. AI advances are making it easier and easier for content owners to monitor the wild.

And to bring this full circle, in the dystopian future of the original Rollerball information wasn't destroyed ala Fahrenheit 451...it was just really hard to access.

Is it possible that Leah Thompson's pubic hair could one day be lost to posterity?

Yeah, I think it is. That kind of thing does not seem totally crazy to me.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Well, it’s certainly the safe option. However, my stuff needs to be said. It will be well documented in time.

Harold Camping's predictions were even better documented than yours. He predicted the "end of days" for decades picking Sept. 6, 1994 as one such end date and when that date passed uneventfully, he predicted the end would occur on May 21, 2011. When that date passed also uneventfully, he moved his prediction to Oct. 21, 2011.

At least he was specific.

Many of his followers had quit their jobs and had given away all of their earthly assets, no small part of which went to Mr. Camping himself.

Unlike you, though, he finally relented and announced that he would make no more such predictions in May of 2012.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold...mes_prediction

The world could have suffered a global catastrophe on any of those dates, but the probability was rather piss poor.

[Show spoiler]See how I "took a piss" there?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Well, it’s certainly the safe option. However, my stuff needs to be said. It will be well documented in time.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by octagon

Twenty or thirty years from now will film lovers be able to fire up a copy of All the Right Moves complete with a fully frontally nude Leah Thompson?

Maybe. But maybe not.

Sure, there will still be people who say 'that's not just a high school student's pubic hair, that's art' and there will likely still be people who say it's basically kiddie porn.

And the powers that be could very easily just shrug and decide that's not the hill they want to lose money on.

Will there be the odd unedited DVD floating around? Sure. But fewer and fewer of them in fewer and fewer hands.

Will rips still be available online? Maybe, but maybe not. AI advances are making it easier and easier for content owners to monitor the wild.

And to bring this full circle, in the dystopian future of the original Rollerball information wasn't destroyed ala Fahrenheit 451...it was just really hard to access.

Is it possible that Leah Thompson's pubic hair could one day be lost to posterity?

Yeah, I think it is. That kind of thing does not seem totally crazy to me.

I own that movie! I will do my part to preserve it for future generations.

It all comes down to probabilities and the probabilities for these undesirable outcomes are very remote. I can not think of a single controversial film or novel that has been lost during my lifetime as a consequence of censorship (could be due to the limitations of my memory/ knowledge ) and I do not think it is likely to happen during the time remaining to me or even well beyond.

It is that very internet that has enabled me to search for, and to find, the rarest titles in my collection and I do not see that ability ever declining. The internet has made the whole world my corner market.

Maybe not "totally crazy," but amply so. There are real issues that warrant worrying about and this is not even close to being one of them- no blip at all on my radar screen.