Power cords? suggestions?

[westom]

Originally Posted by rded

If you are so enlightened and learned, please come up with a quantum calculation that may have been the causative factor of this:

Assuming you are not being insulting, first, that receptacle looks like a type not designed for many reconnections. Too many connections can cause loose contacts, sparking, and that type of burning.

Two types of wall receptacles exist. Those intended for intermittent connection (ie the living room). And other intended for numerous reconnections (ie kitchen). Obviously, kitchen receptacles cost much more to avoid connection failures.

[Johk]

Originally Posted by ryan4blu

yup, i ordered my cable and its on the way now. thanks to those who actually stuck to my original topic and helped answer some questions. oh also thanks for the links as well

im done with this thread until my cable shows up. i didnt start it to get so much technical jargen thrown around.

see ya

What did you get?

I just finished a new DIY cord to complete my install.

[rded]

Originally Posted by westom

Assuming you are not being insulting, first, that receptacle looks like a type not designed for many reconnections. Too many connections can cause loose contacts, sparking, and that type of burning.

Two types of wall receptacles exist. Those intended for intermittent connection (ie the living room). And other intended for numerous reconnections (ie kitchen). Obviously, kitchen receptacles cost much more to avoid connection failures.

Have I insulted he who is so dense? Does it not disturb the very fabric of your being that someone addresses you on such levels that stimulates not your interest but dimishes your ego?
Unless the obvious has escaped you; let me make it known that you are the Epitomy of insult and condescendence to many a member of this forum and for which there is no excuse!

What have YOU learned from history? Does the science of jet propulsion pose a possible solution to such a conundrum?

Based on the photo submitted above: One, only 1 connection from a power conditioner(that you so despise and abhor) was all but necessary to overload the receptacle. Could it be that I failed to overlook the sum off all my components amperage or is it the mere fact that such a receptacle was simply insufficient to handle such loads. Did the tripping of the circuit breaker during the incident even worth a mention? Did I seek out an electrician after the incident? YES!

The whole premise of the discussion before you boorishly stated your pointless and unwated opinion, was questioning the necessity of running a dedicated 20 amp circuit for one's home theater. In my case the the answer is a resounding YES!

Your mode of introjection by stating in littany- pointless and reverberating statements like the murder of astronauts and calling to mind the manner in which people act so foolishly due to fear and myth brought upon by what you call is "hearsay"(pesudo science), was never warranted, out of context and has no bearing on the subject matter to begin with! Do not talk down to people, lest you want to be treated in a similar fashion.

[ryan4blu]

Originally Posted by Johk

What did you get?

I just finished a new DIY cord to complete my install.

this one http://www.needledoctor.com/Tara-Lab...2&category=224

[DougMac]

Originally Posted by westom

3) Another serious mistake not made if one learns the lessons of history. Why were seven Challenger astronauts murdered?

The answer is in this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Rev...3569223&sr=8-1

[westom]

Originally Posted by rded

Have I insulted he who is so dense? Does it not disturb the very fabric of your being that someone addresses you on such levels that stimulates not your interest but dimishes your ego?

So your intent was to be insulting - not logical. Meanwhile, in all that venom, what are you saying caused the blackened plug and receptacle?

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by rded

Westom:

If you are so enlightened and learned, please come up with a quantum calculation that may have been the causative factor of this:

Kindly tie-in rocket science "know how" into the solution.

I will answer this based on what i see and my 30 years in the field; you all know (or most of you) I'm a Master Electrician. just based on what i see, there was a loose connection in the hot conductor connection of either device. if it originated in the originated in the cord set then it was probably a loose screw where the conductor engages the blade locking screw which holds it in place. if it was in the receptacle from what i'm gathering it started either in the loose prong section that where the male plug engages the receptacle (if that was loose, stretched with no tension that would cause high resistance & arcing) or on the back side of the receptacle it may have been wired using the ill advised push-in connection for the wire. as i look at the screws (dark brass showing for the phase/hot conductor) i can't see where the wire bit down into the tab as it would if it were "side wired" so i'll gather it was back wired with the push in tabs. on the cord set end i can also see a brown discolored spot on the body of the plug end. that is usually idicative of heat from inside the plug body at the point of attachment from cord conductor to plug body. if that is the case, i would bet the fault started in there. given it's in the center most part of the assembly it would be able to dissapate heat better, however as you look at the front most part of where the prong exits the plug body there a is a good deal of heat damage to the non-conductive body. the metal could withstand the heat but the plastic body could not. this transfered over into the receptacle, melting it's plastic backerlite face and into the internals of the hot conductor prong within the receptacle body. of course if it started in the receptacle, then simply reverse everything in the way it happened.

Originally Posted by westom

Assuming you are not being insulting, first, that receptacle looks like a type not designed for many reconnections. Too many connections can cause loose contacts, sparking, and that type of burning.

Two types of wall receptacles exist. Those intended for intermittent connection (ie the living room). And other intended for numerous reconnections (ie kitchen). Obviously, kitchen receptacles cost much more to avoid connection failures.

ok, receptacles are designed with a couple of basic purposes that dicate their cost. their volt & amp ratings and the internal prong pressure rating and the amount and type of metal needed to create them; they fall into various NEMA classes as a result of this. the receptacle shown is a standard NEMA 5-15R type receptacle. it is the type of receptacle you would generally find in most of your receptacles in your house. the NEC requires 20a circuits and 20a rated receptacles be installed for appliance circuits i.e. kitchen counters, diningrooms & restrooms; with restrooms being required to be the GFCI type or be GFCI protected via upstream means. this is not because your appliances draw or require 20a, it's because the built of the 20a receptacles offer more body and can withstand more heat with the high current appliances like your coffee maker, your toaster, your microwave & toaster oven and would be less affected than their 15a counterparts. there was mention about "numerous re-connections and the answer given for it was not the completely true but not completely false. receptacles designed to meet a given slot pressure rating for high tensile strength are NEM designated "Hospital Grade" that is because it was determined needed so that paitents or others would not easily or accidently remove the life safety equipment from their receptacles and standard receptacles could not supply the "grip" needed to really engage these plugs. also in a medical facility the receptacles must be tested semi-annually with a special pressure tessting device which plugs into the outlet and measures the spring tension needed to pull it out from the receptacle, once the receptacle went below the given levels for "pull out" it was legally required to be changed out to a new 125v 20a hospital grade receptacle. these receptacles are easily identified with a "green" dot on their face. similar to the triangle on the face of an isolated ground type receptacle, which is a whole different animal! hospital grade outlets are not required by the NEC to be installed in homes/residential installations, mind you they can be but that is the choice of the owner.

Originally Posted by westom

So your intent was to be insulting - not logical. Meanwhile, in all that venom, what are you saying caused the blackened plug and receptacle?

I hope i answered that in the first response. i would like to add that more than likely, the damage was not the result of high current draw, but more likely the result of high heat caused by a high resistance connection and these types of faults will not trip circuit breakers (in most instances) they will simply sit there and cook until they fail breaking the circuit and causing a loss of all of partial flow of electricity or they will continue heating until they begin to damage the wall (sheetrock) or some other combustable material close to them. they could also damage the conductors attached to the receptacle as well as the receptacle connected to the plug/cord set.

oh yeah, it was also mentioned about the capacities of the 15 & 20 amp breakers/circuits that information was not true, kinda! let me clear this up. a 15a 120v circuit can provide 15a or 1800w & a 20a 120v circuit can provide 20a or 2400w, just not continuosly unless the devices are rated for continuos loading which is defined by the NEC as a load that operates fully at it's rating for longer than 3 hours continously. to avoid that we design circuits to not encroach higher than 80% of the device & overcurrent rating. so now that 15a circuit is designed to hold 1,440w continously and the 20a circuit is designed to hold 1,920w continously. these ratings are true for makers of equipment. 15a rated gear will have one type of plug design and 20a rated gear will have a different plug design. the hot & ground for the 15 & 20 are the same, but, the neutral on the 20 is turned sideways to prevent it from being pluged into a 15a receptacle that would not be able to safely provide it's current needs. yes, the 15a circuit can hold 15a and the 20a circuit can hold 20a just not "continously" the other reason for the continuous rating is not to fatigue the OCPD (Over Current Protective Device) the fuse or circuit breaker as they are not rated for continuous loading either and we don't want to cause false tripping or damage the breaker so it can't trip when it needs to.

in this "hobby" of HT we, at times use hospital grade receptacles because they will infact hold the plugs in better because of the tension grip rating of the internal blades, though, most of us never knew why; now you do!
for my HT use, i use a dedicated 20a 125v circuit with #12awg wire connected to a 20a circuit breaker and for a receptacle i use a 20a 125v Hospital Grade IG w/TVSS incoporated, (Isolated Ground) (Transient Voltage Surge Suppression circuitry)or a Leviton #8380-IG. the single, number on advantage of using a dedicated circuit is that power is only consumed by the things you want and now and not shared with other things that might not give you full capacity and cause tripping of the breaker. no worries about blenders, microwaves or other things that reak havoc on the power when in use.

given the way this and the other thread were going, i refused to post given the nature of them but when i saw the picture of the plug and receptacle, i couldn't hold back. I hope i cleared up some things for everyone. stay safe electricaly everyone!

[ZIPPO]

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by ZIPPO

solarrdadd's posts are much more informative , & pleasant to read . vary to the point with no beating around the bush .

My 2 cts.

[westom]

Essentially, you have posted what I had posted in brevity.

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

i would like to add that more than likely, the damage was not the result of high current draw, but more likely the result of high heat caused by a high resistance connection and these types of faults will not trip circuit breakers (in most instances) they will simply sit there and cook until they fail breaking the circuit and causing a loss of all of partial flow of electricity or they will continue heating until they begin to damage the wall (sheetrock) or some other combustable material close to them. they could also damage the conductors attached to the receptacle as well as the receptacle connected to the plug/cord set.

That blackening can be due to high current and lower (but excessive) resistance. Or low current through higher resistance. Or a third category - arcing. In all cases, energy (and burning) is a function of current.

Same current would also be in the other 'neutral' wire. But the neutral connection did not dissipate energy while conducting that same current. Same current says the hot prong had excessive resistance - the neutral did not. Why did the 'hot' have excessive resistance whereas the neutral did not?

One way blackening could occur is if the plug was not fully seated. But then blackening would not be at the base of that yellow plug. The plug apparently was fully seated. Resistance (or an arcing gap) was between that prong and the internal receptacle contact.

Properly noted is a problem common with 'back stab' connections. (An electrical connection that should never exist on circuits that power computers.) Again, not relevant here. Burning is in the wrong location.

Regardless of NEMA 15R, some receptacles (not just hospital type) have receptacle contacts that are superior. Exceed NEMA requirements - rated for more reconnects. And typically sold in the same Lowes or Home Depot for more money. This receptacle demonstrates what happens when a minimal contact is insufficient (ie contact pressure on the plug prong is weak).

His tirade implied a dedicated 20 amp circuit or line conditioner would avert or create this problem. He does not say with clarity. That blackening is consistent with excessive energy dissipated as defined by the famous "I squared R" relationship. A combination of higher current and higher resistance. Both must exist to create that damage. Same current also flowing through the neutral connection caused no damage. Only the hot wire contact was defective on that 15 amp receptacle.

So, how would a dedicated circuit or line conditioner changed that picture - as his outburst implied?

[ryan4blu]

WOW!! all i asked was a simply question guys wasnt looking for a engineer answer or technical answer

this thread went way off and its being taken too far now. it was about power cords and some recommendations for them, not therories or mumbo jumbo talk. im allset if you want to end this pathetic discussion now. i ordered my cable and its on the way. didnt know it would turn into this

eveyone have a beer and relax and enjoy a nice blu ray movie, have some popcorn and thank goodness for good health. oh and awesome home theaters as well

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by ryan4blu

WOW!! all i asked was a simply question guys wasnt looking for a engineer answer or technical answer

this thread went way off and its being taken too far now. it was about power cords and some recommendations for them, not therories or mumbo jumbo talk. im allset if you want to end this pathetic discussion now. i ordered my cable and its on the way. didnt know it would turn into this

eveyone have a beer and relax and enjoy a nice blu ray movie, have some popcorn and thank goodness for good health. oh and awesome home theaters as well

I don't drink but I'm anticipating your write-up on the experience with your new cord.

Have a great weekend, Ryan!

[westom]

Originally Posted by ryan4blu

WOW!! all i asked was a simply question guys wasnt looking for a engineer answer or technical answer

You asked a question that can only be answered in technical terms. Or did you want recommendations to be scammed? Even a simplistic answer is too complex?

Which is why everyone making recommendations provide no numbers. Too many posts are only wild speculation.

1) If a citation has validity, then it discusses connector and wire impedance, characteristic impedance, frequency response, and other parameters involving insulation. None are provided because the recommendations are based only in feelings. A classic example of junk science. Those wires are recommended only on myth – no numbers.
...
Monster Cable was founded on the same myths that now promote those 'miracle' power cords. That same objective is also why Monster Cable sells plug-in protectors. So many 'know' rather than learn. Which means massive profits by promoting a scam. Monster’s [earliest] scams were ‘miracle’ wires. Promoted by citations (similar to those here) that had no tech numbers.

If you smell something burning, is it popcorn ... or those wires?

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by westom

You asked a question that can only be answered in technical terms. Or did you want recommendations to be scammed? Even a simplistic answer is too complex?

Which is why everyone making recommendations provide no numbers. Too many posts are only wild speculation.

1) If a citation has validity, then it discusses connector and wire impedance, characteristic impedance, frequency response, and other parameters involving insulation. None are provided because the recommendations are based only in feelings. A classic example of junk science. Those wires are recommended only on myth – no numbers.
...
Monster Cable was founded on the same myths that now promote those 'miracle' power cords. That same objective is also why Monster Cable sells plug-in protectors. So many 'know' rather than learn. Which means massive profits by promoting a scam. Monster’s [earliest] scams were ‘miracle’ wires. Promoted by citations (similar to those here) that had no tech numbers.

If you smell something burning, is it popcorn ... or those wires?

But some people are just looking for opinions, or names of companies who provide a certain product. They don't want or need a thesis on the background and theories as to why it will or will not work.

Are LCD's or plasmas better? Do I care how the phosphors are energized in my plasma TV in order to give me a picture? Will I ever know who shot JFK with the "magic bullet?" Is God and Satan real or just made up by man many years ago as a bed-time story?

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by louhamilton

But some people are just looking for opinions, or names of companies who provide a certain product. They don't want or need a thesis on the background and theories as to why it will or will not work.

Are LCD's or plasmas better? Do I care how the phosphors are energized in my plasma TV in order to give me a picture? Will I ever know who shot JFK with the "magic bullet?" Is God and Satan real or just made up by man many years ago as a bed-time story?

Goodnight lou !

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

Goodnight lou !

Goodnight, Brent.

BTW, I am at 6.66 posts per day. Pretty freaking considering I just mentioned God and Satan in my last post.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by louhamilton

Goodnight, Brent.

BTW, I am at 6.66 posts per day. Pretty freaking considering I just mentioned God and Satan in my last post.

Right on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[westom]

Originally Posted by louhamilton

But some people are just looking for opinions, or names of companies who provide a certain product.

The first paragraph said everything to those who only know what they are told to believe. Those other paragraphs were for the others who know only the most partriotic Americans only know something when they also know why.

Major difference between those who wait to be told and those who actually know. The beauty of that earliest post. Both types got the complete answer. One soundbyte paragraph (also called the executive summary) for those who must be told how to think. And reality - reasons why in following paragraphs - for those who only know something when they also know why.


For those who only need opinions. Power cords that cost less than $100 provide the wrong type of electricity. It is an opinion - the perfect answer. It tells us exactly how to think. Numbers? I don't need no stick'n numbers.

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by westom

The first paragraph said everything to those who only know what they are told to believe. Those other paragraphs were for the others who know only the most partriotic Americans only know something when they also know why.

Major difference between those who wait to be told and those who actually know. The beauty of that earliest post. Both types got the complete answer. One soundbyte paragraph (also called the executive summary) for those who must be told how to think. And reality - reasons why in following paragraphs - for those who only know something when they also know why.


For those who only need opinions. Power cords that cost less than $100 provide the wrong type of electricity. It is an opinion - the perfect answer. It tells us exactly how to think. Numbers? I don't need no stick'n numbers.

See... Humor... Brought a smile to my face.

BTW, I think they would be called Lemmings.


Thanks and have a good night.

[guitarist155]

I'm too tired for this... maybe tomorrow.