The Jacques Tati Collection

[kuro_sawa]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

I've compared several of the screen shots and I can't decide however I lean towards the old Criterion Blu. (Curious for the new US Criterion disc will it be identical?)

I guess I would have to see them in motion. On some of the screen shots the CC looks more detailed or my eyes are playing games on me. I was expecting the new transfer to blow away the old CC Blu with more detail but it isn't (not yet at least)

So this new UK transfer and the New Criterion is taken from the larger format film scan correct? That is why I was hoping for huge upgrade in detail.

I keep going back and forth and I prefer the old CC Blu so far esp when it comes to some of the colors. I always felt the film was highly stylized and hypnotic at times.

It might simply come down to how big your screen is as to whether or not the 4k restoration will blow you away but I'm hoping for an improvement regardless. Excited for mon Oncle as well.

[Dubstar]

even though it's one person's opinion:

from blu-ray.com's review of the new edition:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Playt...108756/#Review

"I have mixed feelings about the new 4K restoration of Jacques Tati's PlayTime. I like the improved fluidity and clarity it brings, but I am not convinced that the new color scheme is entirely appropriate"

I have to say just gathering from the screen captures - the image and specifically the colors finally look exactly like what I saw on the 70mm print - the prior bluray releases just didn't impress me or wow'd me like said film print. I wonder if Dr. Svet Atanasov ever saw this in 70mm, his opinion/statement might be different.

interestingly - the prior UK BFI disc has the complete feature commentary from Philip Kemp - one reason why completist's might want to not sell it off.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Funktion

I'll reserve my judgement until I see the set for myself, but regarding SC vs Criterion colours, I have to say the colours on the Criterion BD of Playtime were clearly wrong during most of the film, with the blue colour cranked up to ridiculous levels, so I'm not sure the look of the previous Criterion BD is the one you should use as reference.
Criterion's "tweaks" can sometimes change too much what was the original look of the film. Take Scanners, a film I watched numerous times theatrically (including at the Fantasporto film festival, where it earned one of its earliest awards): the film never looked like the recent Criterion BD. And I don't mean that as a compliment.

A couple of comments here.

1. I have indeed seen the film theatrically and while my memory is not as good as that of certain 'experts' who claim to remember how a film looked 30-40 years ago, one thing that I have always been aware of is the cold atmosphere of the first half of the film -- I refer specifically to the footage from inside the massive building. The metallic silver and cold blues are key ingredients there. The film now has a completely different color balance.

2. The first Criterion release of PlayTime also comes from a restoration. I need to double check, but if I recall correctly it was done before the Expo (2004). The transfer for the first release comes from the 35mm reduction internegative which was made from the restored 65mm interpostive. More importantly, the color grading was done at VDM in Paris (Nice Shoes/New York is also referenced in the leaflet, but I am unsure what work was done there). This is also mentioned in the leaflet provided with the first Criterion release. So, I am unsure how you concluded that the the colors of the first release were "clearly wrong".

3. There is zero chance that such massive discrepancies in terms of color balance can be retained for the first release and the second release (4K restoration) is now restoring things back to their original state. More importantly, there are very specific details about the new color grading that are illogical, to say the least, such as the 'green' traffic lights, which essentially look white now. (I have given one specific example in the review).

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

I keep going back and forth and I prefer the old CC Blu so far esp when it comes to some of the colors. I always felt the film was highly stylized and hypnotic at times.

Yes. And part of that style you refer to comes from the cold colors that are so prominent on the initial release.

Pro-B

[Funktion]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

A couple of comments here.

1. I have indeed seen the film theatrically and while my memory is not as good as that of certain 'experts' who claim to remember how a film looked 30-40 years ago, one thing that I have always been aware of is the cold atmosphere of the first half of the film -- I refer specifically to the footage from inside the massive building. The metallic silver and cold blues are key ingredients there. The film now has a completely different color balance.

2. The first Criterion release of PlayTime also comes from a restoration. I need to double check, but if I recall correctly it was done before the Expo (2004). The transfer for the first release comes from the 35mm reduction internegative which was made from the restored 65mm interpostive. More importantly, Criterion had absolutely nothing to do with the color grading of the telecine -- it was all done in France, at VDM. This is also mentioned in the leaflet provided with the first Criterion release. So, I am unsure how you concluded that the the colors of the first release were "clearly wrong".

3. There is zero chance that such massive discrepancies in terms of color balance can be retained for the first release and the second release (4K restoration) is now restoring things back to their original state. More importantly, there are very specific details about the new color grading that are illogical, to say the least, such as the 'green' traffic lights, which essentially look white now. (I have given one specific example in the review).

Pro-B

I won't enter a discussion with you, because I'm certainly not an "expert" like you mentioned, and neither am I a professional reviewer. Plus, reading past topics where people voiced opinions different to yours, I know where this will lead. I know how this has started.
My comments were not attacking your review, if that's what you were thinking, so no need for the rudeness.

But I too have to point a couple of things:
-first, I didn't watch the original theatrical showing of Playtime; I never claimed to;
-second, my comments regarding the "clearly wrong" aspect of the transfer is that there are portions so blue, skin tones just don't look right; the BFI BD was a bit better on that front, and supposedly it came from the same restoration as the Criterion BD, didn't it? Is it the first time that Criterion, working with the same materials, ends up with different results, because it "tweaks" contrast levels (among other things)?
-I never stated the new SC BD is correct, and true to the original materials, I've never seen it; what I did say was that I will reserve judgement until I see this new release by myself, and that I don't think the Criterion BD was the reference that people should base their comparisons by, since it too appears to have been "tweaked" a bit; my previous edition of choice to view this title was the BFI BD, by the way;
-furthermore, what I did see, theatrically, both on the original run and numerous times afterwards (the last of which little over a year ago) was Scanners, and the film never looked like on the recent Criterion BD. It may have been at the wish of the director, but the recent Criterion BD doesn't reflect what the film looked like theatrically, and I don't need neither to be an "expert", nor have the memory of an elephant, to know that.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Funktion

I won't enter a discussion with you, because I'm certainly not an "expert" like you mentioned, and neither am I a professional reviewer. Plus, reading past topics where people voiced opinions different to yours, I know where this will lead. I know how this has started.
My comments were not attacking your review, if that's what you were thinking, so no need for the rudeness.

But I too have to point a couple of things:
-first, I didn't watch the original theatrical showing of Playtime; I never claimed to;
-second, my comments regarding the "clearly wrong" aspect of the transfer is that there are portions so blue, skin tones just don't look right; the BFI BD was a bit better on that front, and supposedly it came from the same restoration as the Criterion BD, didn't it? Is it the first time that Criterion, working with the same materials, ends up with different results, because it "tweaks" contrast levels (among other things)?
-I never stated the new SC BD is correct, and true to the original materials, I've never seen it; what I did say was that I will reserve judgement until I see this new release by myself, and that I don't think the Criterion BD was the reference that people should base their comparisons by, since it too appears to have been "tweaked" a bit; my previous edition of choice to view this title was the BFI BD, by the way;
-furthermore, what I did see, theatrically, both on the original run and numerous times afterwards (the last of which little over a year ago) was Scanners, and the film never looked like on the recent Criterion BD. It may have been at the wish of the director, but the recent Criterion BD doesn't reflect what the film looked like theatrically, and I don't need neither to be an "expert", nor have the memory of an elephant, to know that.

I think you need to reread all of the comments that have been posted so far because you have clearly misinterpreted the tone and message of my post.

I grouped different replies -- including one to Dubstar -- so it is very surprising that you would think that my post was rude. Your post, however, clearly has the wrong tone. And I was never under the impression that you were attacking the review.

As far as Criterion 'tweaking' the transfer is concerned, I would need some evidence to agree with you that this was in fact done in the U.S. My understanding is that the telecine for the old restoration was indeed color graded in France. I don't know what work was done in the U.S., and I made this very clear. What I wanted to highlight to you is that the difference between the two presentations of the film is now massive, to the point that the film now has a very different tonal identity.

In any event, I hope you pick the release that best suits your taste/expectations.

Pro-B

[Funktion]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

In any event, I hope you pick the release that best suites your taste/expectations.

Pro-B

I'll probably pick up both (I already owned both the US and UK BDs of Playtime).

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by Funktion

I won't enter a discussion with you, because I'm certainly not an "expert" like you mentioned, and neither am I a professional reviewer. Plus, reading past topics where people voiced opinions different to yours, I know where this will lead. I know how this has started.
My comments were not attacking your review, if that's what you were thinking, so no need for the rudeness.

But I too have to point a couple of things:
-first, I didn't watch the original theatrical showing of Playtime; I never claimed to;
-second, my comments regarding the "clearly wrong" aspect of the transfer is that there are portions so blue, skin tones just don't look right; the BFI BD was a bit better on that front, and supposedly it came from the same restoration as the Criterion BD, didn't it? Is it the first time that Criterion, working with the same materials, ends up with different results, because it "tweaks" contrast levels (among other things)?
-I never stated the new SC BD is correct, and true to the original materials, I've never seen it; what I did say was that I will reserve judgement until I see this new release by myself, and that I don't think the Criterion BD was the reference that people should base their comparisons by, since it too appears to have been "tweaked" a bit; my previous edition of choice to view this title was the BFI BD, by the way;
-furthermore, what I did see, theatrically, both on the original run and numerous times afterwards (the last of which little over a year ago) was Scanners, and the film never looked like on the recent Criterion BD. It may have been at the wish of the director, but the recent Criterion BD doesn't reflect what the film looked like theatrically, and I don't need neither to be an "expert", nor have the memory of an elephant, to know that.

I know I've already pointed this out, but this was not apparent on the 70mm prints - the blue sheen killed it for me when I first watched Criterion's first edition - ("what the hell happened to the colors? - where'd they go??") - the trailer for the French theatrical reissue of the 4K transfer is a clear indication that while there's a lot of "silver and gray" it's no longer "blue" (thank god)

so are we concluding that the new Criterion edition will look nothing like the French/UK box set transfers? Criterion is one up currently with having the sound in 5.1

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

so are we concluding that the new Criterion edition will look nothing like the French/UK box set transfers? Criterion is one up currently with having the sound in 5.1

I would actually be surprised if the Criterion release does not use the 4K restoration as a foundation.

As far as the 5.1 listing is concerned, it could be that it will be a 3.0 mix encoded as 5.1 mix. Criterion have done this in the past to maintain compatibility with legacy receivers. (See Like Someone in Love). When the release arrives, it will be very clear

Pro-B

[Mansinthe]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

I would actually be surprised if the Criterion release does not use the 4K restoration as a foundation.

Pro-B

if they are gonna use the 4k restoration maybe there is a chance they might do the same for other movies? the leopard for example. (if they run out of stock)

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

if they are gonna use the 4k restoration maybe there is a chance they might do the same for other movies? the leopard for example. (if they run out of stock)

shhh - don't mention that title around Pro-B - he ain't impressed with that transfer.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

I would actually be surprised if the Criterion release does not use the 4K restoration as a foundation.

As far as the 5.1 listing is concerned, it could be that it will be a 3.0 mix encoded as 5.1 mix. Criterion have done this in the past to maintain compatibility with legacy receivers. (See Like Someone in Love). When the release arrives, it will be very clear

Pro-B

speaking of 5.1 - originally 5.1 was announced for 'The Last Emperor' but as it turned out - that wasn't the case...

only the Japanese bluray with the correct original 2.35 AR had the 5.1 mix (culled from the 70mm 6-track soundmix)

[Mansinthe]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

shhh - don't mention that title around Pro-B - he ain't impressed with that transfer.

same here. i would like the 4k restoration with the criterion colors

[SolidBlu]

Is this the same with the upcoming TCC release? The number of movies included? I might double dip, thanks

[Philly Q]

Originally Posted by SolidBlu

Is this the same with the upcoming TCC release? The number of movies included? I might double dip, thanks

It's the same in the sense that both the StudioCanal and Criterion sets will include all Tati's films and short films.

I don't know whether both sets include all the alternate cuts of all the films - I've read the specs but can't remember the exact details.

And of course the extras are likely to be different.

[mattyl149]

I should hopefully have this delivered today and am happy to put some pictures up of this set

[Philly Q]

Just got an email that mine's on the way, so it's too late to cancel in favour of the Criterion....

Not that that was likely anyway, I've got so many different versions of the Tati films on DVD and Blu-ray it was always likely that I'd buy both these new sets.

[mattyl149]

Here's pictures of the set:

Front of box:



Side of box showing cases:



Back of box:



Other side of box:



Inside of box:



Front of booklet:



Back of booklet:



Jour De Fete - Front:



Jour De Fete - Back:



Jour De Fete - Inside:



Les Vacances De Monsieur Hulot - Front:



Les Vacances De Monsieur Hulot - Back:



Les Vacances De Monsieur Hulot - Inside:



Mon Oncle - Front:



Mon Oncle - Back:



Mon Oncle - Inside:



Playtime - Front:



Playtime - Back:



Playtime - Inside:



Trafic - Front:



Trafic - Back:



Trafic - Inside:



Parade - Front:



Parade - Back:



Parade - Inside:



The Short Films - Front:



The Short Films - Back:



The Short Films - Inside:

[Philly Q]

Thanks for the pictures! Not the most exciting packaging ever, but I'm glad they're slimline cases, at least.

[adamhopelies]

I feel sorry for this set, coming so soon after the Criterion announcement. It's what's on the disc that counts tho, and at least these films are widely available again.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Agree'd that the packaging isn't very exciting but the fact that it isn't a digibook with the discs inserted in cardboard sleeves or pages means regardless of how "meh" it looks, it's a solid release. The Digibooks may look better and save space but practicality will always trump attractiveness. Of course it would be nice to have both but it doesn't always work out that way.