2021 Sony Master Series A90J (55", 65" and 83") [Owners' & Discussion Thread]

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I'm watching the (83") A90J with great interest.

This could be the first TV worth it to replace my 75Z9D.

I'm waiting for Micro-LED with great interest, could be worth replacing my C8.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Couple of updates from D-Nice over at AVS:

"Im currently watching Altered Carbon on my A9G and A90J. Not surprising to me, but DoVi Bright on the A9G equals DoVi Dark on the A90J— fully calibrated of course. Specular highlights are the same between these units in said modes so measured nits do not show improvement with this content in this specific picture mode setup. No desaturated colors on the A9G compared to the A90J (so much for that <enter colorful adjective here> Youtuber’s video comparison )... However, colors are desaturated on the A90J compared to the A9G and requires the Color setting to be bumped to 60 to align with the A9G. I will be measuring color @ 60 tomorrow to see what the numbers look like.

For nit lovers, you can use DoVi Bright with the HDR Tone Mapping setting on Brightness Preferred. You will see a visible improvement in APL and specular highlights brightness. I’ll throughly test that configuration tomorrow to see if colors become desaturated— visually and measured.

DoVi Dark— I get perfect EOTF tracking and grayscale after actually calibrating DoVi Dark on the A90J. Posterization in DoVi Dark on the A90J is identical between my A9G and A90J— almost non existent. Elevated blacks were seen on the Netflix intro a couple of times. However, I think I had the HDMI port on the A90J misconfigured. I will be looking at more content to verify if elevated blacks exist or not.

Settings and calibration reports will be posted tomorrow. Time to rest."

The new brightness tone mapping is interesting. It can be used on both HDR10 and also Dolby Vision, as well as on ALL picture modes. Works similar to the dynamic tone mapping option found on the LG Oled tvs.

This report doesn't like a TV I should be my spending my stimulus check on.

[ray0414]

Another owner at AVS who has multiple oleds in his house and has his 65A90J setup next to his C8 oled. Long story short.... The A90J is a giant upgrade. He's getting close to 1100 nits in real scene measurements using his own settings with Dolby Vision Bright. The more he watches, the more it stands out. Also says color is another big upgrade. Said so far he is thrilled with the upgrade.

Robert, any info yet on pre-ordering the 83? Someone at AVS said they were able to pre-order the 83 in store at best buy today. (edit: he was able to pre-order/reserve it but with no money down because he has in store credit and a price was not yet available).

[ray0414]

BTW, he measured 1060 nits on the opening scene of the Matrix with the Flashlights. Can you say game changer??

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

This report doesn't like a TV I should be my spending my stimulus check on.

He's got it side by side with his C8. Makes his C8 look like a dinosaur. I have a C8 also. A90J whoops up on it.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

I'm waiting for Micro-LED with great interest, could be worth replacing my C8.

I also highly anticipate MicroLED, but it seems we won't be seeing "regular" MicroLED TVs in the next couple of years. A (Sony) MiniLED as a stop-gap would be great, but alas...no such thing (yet?). Meanwhile, the A90J seems like a great set to satisfy my appetite for a new toy.

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Another owner at AVS who has multiple oleds in his house and has his 65A90J setup next to his C8 oled. Long story short.... The A90J is a giant upgrade. He's getting close to 1100 nits in real scene measurements using his own settings with Dolby Vision Bright. The more he watches, the more it stands out. Also says color is another big upgrade. Said so far he is thrilled with the upgrade.

Robert, any info yet on pre-ordering the 83? Someone at AVS said they were able to pre-order the 83 in store at best buy today. (edit: he was able to pre-order/reserve it but with no money down because he has in store credit and a price was not yet available).

We have a "Priority wait list" for those who want to be included in Sony's first allocation of any of the 2021 TVs. No deposit or payment until the TV is ready to ship.

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Another owner at AVS who has multiple oleds in his house and has his 65A90J setup next to his C8 oled. Long story short.... The A90J is a giant upgrade. He's getting close to 1100 nits in real scene measurements using his own settings with Dolby Vision Bright. The more he watches, the more it stands out. Also says color is another big upgrade. Said so far he is thrilled with the upgrade.

Robert, any info yet on pre-ordering the 83? Someone at AVS said they were able to pre-order the 83 in store at best buy today. (edit: he was able to pre-order/reserve it but with no money down because he has in store credit and a price was not yet available).

That's more like it. The new LG panel is one heck of a bright beast, and Sony is keeping colors optimal. I expect amazing reviews by next month. Panasonic is going to have a harder time this year. Sony has decided they want to be the one's to rule them all. Gotta love good competition.

[samlop10]

It seems that 1000+ nits are only possible in non-accurate picture modes. After calibration and picking the most accurate settings, the 55” A90J measures ~750 nits. That’s pretty disappointing imo. You have to sacrifice accuracy if you want a brighter picture. Current LG OLEDs aren’t that much different while still being accurate, and they don’t even have the new panel, nor the metallic heat sink from the A90J. I was pretty excited and was considering purchasing an 83” A90J but after those results I don’t think I’ll get it.

If anything I’d get an LG 83” for cheaper and not too different brightness levels. But I’ll probably wait for next year. We’ll see how the rest of the year turns out.

I’ll wait for more reviews and results from others, but ~750 nits after accurate settings and calibration? Hardly an upgrade compared to previous OLED TVs, not to mention only 2 HDMI 2.1 inputs, whereas LG offers 4 of them.

[NeilZ]

That’s only based on dnice’s reports. I’ve looked into his previous reviews and he gives lower numbers for all tv’s. Not sure what his methodology is, but I’m pretty confident the review sites out there will be rating this higher. Some already rate the previous Sony OLED’s at near 700 nits in accurate modes. I think the A90J will be at least 850+, maybe even 900 in specular highlights from some reviewers. It’s a super bright OLED based on all accounts.

[tama]

Originally Posted by samlop10

It seems that 1000+ nits are only possible in non-accurate picture modes. After calibration and picking the most accurate settings, the 55” A90J measures ~750 nits. That’s pretty disappointing imo. You have to sacrifice accuracy if you want a brighter picture. Current LG OLEDs aren’t that much different while still being accurate, and they don’t even have the new panel, nor the metallic heat sink from the A90J. I was pretty excited and was considering purchasing an 83” A90J but after those results I don’t think I’ll get it.

If anything I’d get an LG 83” for cheaper and not too different brightness levels. But I’ll probably wait for next year. We’ll see how the rest of the year turns out.

I’ll wait for more reviews and results from others, but ~750 nits after accurate settings and calibration? Hardly an upgrade compared to previous OLED TVs, not to mention only 2 HDMI 2.1 inputs, whereas LG offers 4 of them.

Yes the nits may seem underwhelming from a number standpoint but everyone is wondering how ABL effects these tvs. Dnice is stating this set is brighter then his OLED C9 and Sony A9G in its correct or proper modes.

Another tv reviewer? Known as sparechange has his and also says its.a bright bad boy.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

That’s only based on dnice’s reports. I’ve looked into his previous reviews and he gives lower numbers for all tv’s. Not sure what his methodology is, but I’m pretty confident the review sites out there will be rating this higher. Some already rate the previous Sony OLED’s at near 700 nits in accurate modes. I think the A90J will be at least 850+, maybe even 900 in specular highlights from some reviewers. It’s a super bright OLED based on all accounts.

Well, he was also comparing it to a previous OLED and he said in the most accurate settings and after calibration, the difference wasn’t big overall, and he even advised someone to keep their current OLED (I believe the A8H) when he asked him if the upgrade was worth it.

So even if he seems to usually measure lower brightness for different sets, he is consistent, so the fact that he compared it to a previous OLED model and didn’t see a high improvement in brightness still says something.

Like I said, I’m still waiting for more reviews before making a final decision (there’s always a chance he got a bad unit). But even ~850nits would still be relatively low given it has both a new panel and a heat sink (and the human perceptible improvement would barely be there, not to mention the fact tone mapping would still be needed anyway for almost everything HDR). Also, generally, Sony seems to drive their OLEDs lower than LG, so they usually measure lower than than LG’s OLEDs. So I wouldn’t be surprised if LG’s models aren’t too different after all is said and done.

Originally Posted by tama

Yes the nits may seem underwhelming from a number standpoint but everyone is wondering how ABL effects these tvs. Dnice is stating this set is brighter then his OLED C9 and Sony A9G in its correct or proper modes.

Another tv reviewer? Known as sparechange has his and also says its.a bright bad boy.

Were they all watching their A90Js in the most accurate settings though? Dnice measured up to around 1200 nits in non-accurate picture modes, but once he picked the most accurate settings and calibrated it, the brightness dropped like a brick (around 450 nits). It’s nice the TV can get pretty bright, but for someone that values reproducing accuracy as much as possible, that’s worthless when the brightness isn’t really that much better when dialed in for accuracy.

ABL is only important for content that has a lot of sustained brightness, which in most films and series, is pretty rare. The great majority of shots in films and series have only 5 - 25% of bright objects on screen, and the great majority of shots only last a few seconds, so even if ABL isn’t as aggressive, most of the content out there wouldn’t even benefit from it. So it’s still an improvement but just not one, that imo, justifies the higher prices.


My main dilemma is really between getting an OLED from LG or Sony now or later since 83” sizes have been announced. However, as much as I enjoy a bigger screen, if that’s the only noticeable upgrade (i.e., brightness isn’t that much different after all is said and done), then I’ll probably wait until the panels can consistently reach at least the higher 900s in nits after calibration and accurate settings (for all colors). And really that’s like the only thing that can be upgraded now for OLED TVs since OLEDs now usually track image accuracy pretty great up until the panel’s color and brightness capabilities. Unless the 83” isn’t too expensive compared to last year’s 77”, then I might take the plunge even if the brightness isn’t a decent improvement. But if they’re more pricey it’ll be hard to justify getting one solely for a bit more size.

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by samlop10

Well, he was also comparing it to a previous OLED and he said in the most accurate settings and after calibration, the difference wasn’t big overall, and he even advised someone to keep their current OLED (I believe the A8H) when he asked him if the upgrade was worth it.

So even if he seems to usually measure lower brightness for different sets, he is consistent, so the fact that he compared it to a previous OLED model and didn’t see a high improvement in brightness still says something.

Like I said, I’m still waiting for more reviews before making a final decision (there’s always a chance he got a bad unit). But even ~850nits would still be relatively low given it has both a new panel and a heat sink (and the human perceptible improvement would barely be there, not to mention the fact tone mapping would still be needed anyway for almost everything HDR). Also, generally, Sony seems to drive their OLEDs lower than LG, so they usually measure lower than than LG’s OLEDs. So I wouldn’t be surprised if LG’s models aren’t too different after all is said and done.

A few other people have their units and are already getting higher readings than dnice (also I see dnice's latest number for accurate gets to 780 nits). One users set in vivid actually topped 1400 nits. That's reminiscent of those crazy numbers we saw at the Sony event and later on that Chinese blog. Will this tv reach 1000 in accurate mode, probably not. But if it gets in the mid to upper 800's with accurate picture and color, that's a sizeable leap, and pretty close to the point of diminishing returns frankly. 1000 would have been great for bragging rights that an OLED can do it, but this tv will perform mostly accurately throughout with hdr, unlike say the Panasonic hdr experience which just pushes white too hard. Sony's heatsink should push durability further than any oled has been before too.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by samlop10

Well, he was also comparing it to a previous OLED and he said in the most accurate settings and after calibration, the difference wasn’t big overall, and he even advised someone to keep their current OLED (I believe the A8H) when he asked him if the upgrade was worth it.

So even if he seems to usually measure lower brightness for different sets, he is consistent, so the fact that he compared it to a previous OLED model and didn’t see a high improvement in brightness still says something.

Like I said, I’m still waiting for more reviews before making a final decision (there’s always a chance he got a bad unit). But even ~850nits would still be relatively low given it has both a new panel and a heat sink (and the human perceptible improvement would barely be there, not to mention the fact tone mapping would still be needed anyway for almost everything HDR). Also, generally, Sony seems to drive their OLEDs lower than LG, so they usually measure lower than than LG’s OLEDs. So I wouldn’t be surprised if LG’s models aren’t too different after all is said and done.



Were they all watching their A90Js in the most accurate settings though? Dnice measured up to around 1200 nits in non-accurate picture modes, but once he picked the most accurate settings and calibrated it, the brightness dropped like a brick (around 450 nits). It’s nice the TV can get pretty bright, but for someone that values reproducing accuracy as much as possible, that’s worthless when the brightness isn’t really that much better when dialed in for accuracy.

ABL is only important for content that has a lot of sustained brightness, which in most films and series, is pretty rare. The great majority of shots in films and series have only 5 - 25% of bright objects on screen, and the great majority of shots only last a few seconds, so even if ABL isn’t as aggressive, most of the content out there wouldn’t even benefit from it. So it’s still an improvement but just not one, that imo, justifies the higher prices.


My main dilemma is really between getting an OLED from LG or Sony now or later since 83” sizes have been announced. However, as much as I enjoy a bigger screen, if that’s the only noticeable upgrade (i.e., brightness isn’t that much different after all is said and done), then I’ll probably wait until the panels can consistently reach at least the higher 900s in nits after calibration and accurate settings (for all colors). And really that’s like the only thing that can be upgraded now for OLED TVs since OLEDs now usually track image accuracy pretty great up until the panel’s color and brightness capabilities. Unless the 83” isn’t too expensive compared to last year’s 77”, then I might take the plunge even if the brightness isn’t a decent improvement. But if they’re more pricey it’ll be hard to justify getting one solely for a bit more size.

Pretty much everything you just said in this post is either wrong or misguided. I'll post later to clear up.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

A few other people have their units and are already getting higher readings than dnice (also I see dnice's latest number for accurate gets to 780 nits). One users set in vivid actually topped 1400 nits. That's reminiscent of those crazy numbers we saw at the Sony event and later on that Chinese blog. Will this tv reach 1000 in accurate mode, probably not. But if it gets in the mid to upper 800's with accurate picture and color, that's a sizeable leap, and pretty close to the point of diminishing returns frankly. 1000 would have been great for bragging rights that an OLED can do it, but this tv will perform mostly accurately throughout with hdr, unlike say the Panasonic hdr experience which just pushes white too hard. Sony's heatsink should push durability further than any oled has been before too.

That’s the thing. Mid or upper 800s won’t look much different than mid 750 given how the human eye works with brightness. Going from 750 to 1000 is sizable, plus a lot, if not most, of HDR content is mastered at 1000 nits so tone mapping wouldn’t be necessary. And even content that is mastered higher would still look good given the jump in brightness. That to me is not diminishing returns. Going from 750 to 875 is diminishing returns. You’d barely notice the jump in brightness and you’d still need to tone map pretty much everything.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Pretty much everything you just said in this post is either wrong or misguided. I'll post later to clear up.

Ok, lol. What I said in my post is based on either the results posted on AVSForums (specific to the A90J), or stuff posted there (AVSForums as well) in other threads where users have measured averages from movies and explained ABL and how content is darker for the most part with only a small percentage of screen area actually being bright. It’s rare when a movie or series has a big average of big screen area (25% or higher) that is bright. But I guess I’ll wait for that ‘clear up’ to reply with more/better specifics.

[tama]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by samlop10

Well, he was also comparing it to a previous OLED and he said in the most accurate settings and after calibration, the difference wasn’t big overall, and he even advised someone to keep their current OLED (I believe the A8H) when he asked him if the upgrade was worth it.

So even if he seems to usually measure lower brightness for different sets, he is consistent, so the fact that he compared it to a previous OLED model and didn’t see a high improvement in brightness still says something.

Like I said, I’m still waiting for more reviews before making a final decision (there’s always a chance he got a bad unit). But even ~850nits would still be relatively low given it has both a new panel and a heat sink (and the human perceptible improvement would barely be there, not to mention the fact tone mapping would still be needed anyway for almost everything HDR). Also, generally, Sony seems to drive their OLEDs lower than LG, so they usually measure lower than than LG’s OLEDs. So I wouldn’t be surprised if LG’s models aren’t too different after all is said and done.



Were they all watching their A90Js in the most accurate settings though? Dnice measured up to around 1200 nits in non-accurate picture modes, but once he picked the most accurate settings and calibrated it, the brightness dropped like a brick (around 450 nits). It’s nice the TV can get pretty bright, but for someone that values reproducing accuracy as much as possible, that’s worthless when the brightness isn’t really that much better when dialed in for accuracy.

ABL is only important for content that has a lot of sustained brightness, which in most films and series, is pretty rare. The great majority of shots in films and series have only 5 - 25% of bright objects on screen, and the great majority of shots only last a few seconds, so even if ABL isn’t as aggressive, most of the content out there wouldn’t even benefit from it. So it’s still an improvement but just not one, that imo, justifies the higher prices.


My main dilemma is really between getting an OLED from LG or Sony now or later since 83” sizes have been announced. However, as much as I enjoy a bigger screen, if that’s the only noticeable upgrade (i.e., brightness isn’t that much different after all is said and done), then I’ll probably wait until the panels can consistently reach at least the higher 900s in nits after calibration and accurate settings (for all colors). And really that’s like the only thing that can be upgraded now for OLED TVs since OLEDs now usually track image accuracy pretty great up until the panel’s color and brightness capabilities. Unless the 83” isn’t too expensive compared to last year’s 77”, then I might take the plunge even if the brightness isn’t a decent improvement. But if they’re more pricey it’ll be hard to justify getting one solely for a bit more size.

DNice has stated that 100% white window hits 175 nits as opposed the 150 nits and lower on any previous brand/model, that grey scale is tracking easier and better. While it can hit 1400 nits you're correct that his recalibrate mode is now hitting 780 nits. He also stated RGB is hitting higher but also just stated that Sony has always driven them harder which is why they tend to be more color saturated. He did say it was a brighter compared to the A8 and A8 and C9 with corrected settings. Also sounds like it's holding brightness longer.

But you're right he did say in real world content viewing he wasn't seeing any staunch difference which I believe speaks highly of how good the last 2 year models of OLEDS are.

So it's better but if someone just bought last years models or brands then there isn't an immediate need to replace your current set just yet.

My tv went south so I have a need but also coming from a B7 even if my tv wasn't kicking I think this would be the perfect upgrade for those like me with older sets.

[NeilZ]

Have to appreciate what a leap the A90J is doing for OLED. Now OLED can actually see the finish line in terms of someday reaching accurate 1000 nits. It's probably not that many years away. I think that the A90J is stepping into the threshold of diminishing returns. When you look back at the future OLED's that reach 1000, and compare to the 800+ A90J people will probably have to look at them side by side to truly appreciate the progress. Right now everyone who has seen the A90J in best buy or other locations has said the difference is staggering compared to the 600 ish nits range previous models, even without doing a side by side.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by tama

[Show spoiler]

DNice has stated that 100% white window hits 175 nits as opposed the 150 nits and lower on any previous brand/model, that grey scale is tracking easier and better. While it can hit 1400 nits you're correct that his recalibrate mode is now hitting 780 nits. He also stated RGB is hitting higher but also just stated that Sony has always driven them harder which is why they tend to be more color saturated. He did say it was a brighter compared to the A8 and A8 and C9 with corrected settings. Also sounds like it's holding brightness longer.

But you're right he did say in real world content viewing he wasn't seeing any staunch difference which I believe speaks highly of how good the last 2 year models of OLEDS are.

So it's better but if someone just bought last years models or brands then there isn't an immediate need to replace your current set just yet.

My tv went south so I have a need but also coming from a B7 even if my tv wasn't kicking I think this would be the perfect upgrade for those like me with older sets.

Yeah I’d agree with that statement for the most part. Even then, we’re still waiting for reviews and results for this year’s LG OLEDs. I honestly doubt, at least imo, that these Sonys’ higher prices will be justified compared to LG’s models which are cheaper and usually aren't much different in PQ. That’s usually been the case for the past few years with OLEDs from both companies and it doesn’t seem this year Sony has truly done something to justify the higher prices. It’s like they take one step forward and two steps back. The small increase in brightness (assuming accuracy) is nice but then they’re both more expensive and have less HDMI 2.1 inputs.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

Have to appreciate what a leap the A90J is doing for OLED. Now OLED can actually see the finish line in terms of someday reaching accurate 1000 nits. It's probably not that many years away. I think that the A90J is stepping into the threshold of diminishing returns. When you look back at the future OLED's that reach 1000, and compare to the 800+ A90J people will probably have to look at them side by side to truly appreciate the progress. Right now everyone who has seen the A90J in best buy or other locations has said the difference is staggering compared to the 600 ish nits range previous models, even without doing a side by side.

Were they in gradient mode or brightness preferred (not accurate; brightness the image more than it should, clips highlights)? I’m sure 1000+ nits in non accurate modes will look significantly brighter. But once you pick the accurate mode, brightness is nowhere near 1000 nits. I doubt store demo units have the accurate mode picked.

It’s also true previous Sony OLED models were closer to 600 nits in peak brightness, but LGs have reached higher than that for at least the previous couple of years. Even after calibration. There’s some unit to unit variation, but for the most part most review sites get peak brightness in the mid 700 nits after calibration.