The Official Acoustic Audio Subwoofer Owners Thread

[dxology]

Originally Posted by callas01

Nice setup, I am glad to see another Energy speaker user on the boards. I would suggest that you look into the HD-Sub10 or 12. I use the 10 in a room about the same size as yours and it matches the speakers very well in both looks and performance.

Its good to know that the HD-Sub10 matches the Energy speakers. Ive decided to get one but the girlfriend doesnt like the pictures Ive shown her of it. She likes the tSc ASW-10 we have now but I want something that goes down lower. I can tell her that it will look just fine with the speakers now.

[killahbee]

Originally Posted by callas01

Nice setup, I am glad to see another Energy speaker user on the boards. I would suggest that you look into the HD-Sub10 or 12. I use the 10 in a room about the same size as yours and it matches the speakers very well in both looks and performance.

I just checked out your HT pictures. They do match, and look good. How does the sub itself sound? Can you describe the bass.

Right now, the C300s do a decent job of pumping out some bass. But you can tell during some scenes in movies that it struggles. I think adding a sub would do wonders for sound.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by billlh

That brings up an interesting problem for me too Big Daddy. I have these wonderful Sansui's that I wish to use with my system. My current setup for HT is Energy C-100's with a C-C100 center channel up front. Of course I have the small C-100's set to small. But what will happen when I drop the wires from them down to the Sansui's for 2 channel listening. Just for clarity my C-100's sit on top of the Sansui's putting them at the ideal height for the front sound stage. I have the two front channels hooked up with alligator clips to make using either set of speakers easier. Obviously I have to shut the HK 247 AVR off before doing the actual switch. So anyway I'm wondering will I need to change the size of the front speakers when I go to two channel stuff? And will the sub still play? I'm not entirely sure how this is all going to work. And yes I realize my setup is very unorthodox. Any thoughts you or anyone else has on this would be greatly appreciated.

Bill

It all depends on the options available on your receiver. My Denon receiver has separate options for multi-channel movies and different options for two-channel music. Depending on your receiver, you have three options for 2-channel music:

1. In the receiver's menu, set the Sansui front speakers to large and set the subwoofer to NO. You will get basic two channel music.
2. Set your front speakers to SMALL and subwoofer to LFE. Set the crossover frequency to 60Hz or 80Hz. All your stereo music will become 2.1. The front speakers will play the frequencies above the crossover and the subwoofer plays the frequencies below the crossover.
3. Set your front speakers to LARGE and the subwoofer to LFE+Main. If your receiver offers this option for two-chanel music, set the crossover to 60Hz or 80Hz. In this case, the low frequency sound below the crossover will be played by the subwoofer and the front speakers.

I like option 2 the best.

[DavidinGA]

For reference I have a Energy setup as well and it sounds excellent!


Energy:

C-300's
C-C100
C-50's
+ Acoustic Audio PSW-12

[callas01]

Originally Posted by killahbee

I just checked out your HT pictures. They do match, and look good. How does the sub itself sound? Can you describe the bass.

Right now, the C300s do a decent job of pumping out some bass. But you can tell during some scenes in movies that it struggles. I think adding a sub would do wonders for sound.

actually when I said that it matches well I was speaking of the Sub as it incorporates with the sound of the energy speakers, but yes it does match color wise too. Sound is powerful and blends great with the overall sound, I have never been so happy with the sound as I am right now. Yes because of Energys focus on the mids (especially on the C300s) you will get some great mid bass, but you have to have sub to get the lower bass. I have found that the AA sub at 55% gain and the crossover all the way to its max produce a powerful punch that works great with the mid bass of the Energy speakers.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by DavidinGA

For reference I have a Energy setup as well and it sounds excellent!


Energy:

C-300's
C-C100
C-50's
+ Acoustic Audio PSW-12

Awesome, We need BD to post in the Energy thread all the owners of Energy speakers so we know who to ask questions to and new prospective owners can ask individuals questions regarding certian speakers.

I like your set up. How are the C-50s, I want to get one and replace my Sony B1000 which is my 6th speaker so that I have all Energys. even though it isn't used a ton....

[4x12]

Originally Posted by callas01

Awesome, We need BD to post in the Energy thread all the owners of Energy speakers so we know who to ask questions to and new prospective owners can ask individuals questions regarding certian speakers...

Great idea!

[callas01]

Originally Posted by dxology

Its good to know that the HD-Sub10 matches the Energy speakers. Ive decided to get one but the girlfriend doesnt like the pictures Ive shown her of it. She likes the tSc ASW-10 we have now but I want something that goes down lower. I can tell her that it will look just fine with the speakers now.

Heck, show here the pictures in my gallery and see if she approves.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by callas01

Awesome, We need BD to post in the Energy thread all the owners of Energy speakers so we know who to ask questions to and new prospective owners can ask individuals questions regarding certian speakers.

I like your set up. How are the C-50s, I want to get one and replace my Sony B1000 which is my 6th speaker so that I have all Energys. even though it isn't used a ton....

Originally Posted by 4x12

Great idea!

In the list of owners in Post #1, I added the speakers that each member owns. Unfortunately, the information is incomplete. Please check the list and inform me about any missing information.

[4x12]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

In the list of owners in Post #1, I added the speakers that each member owns. Unfortunately, the information is incomplete. Please check the list and inform me about any missing information.

Thats very cool!

Thanks BD!

[vega2K]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

In the list of owners in Post #1, I added the speakers that each member owns. Unfortunately, the information is incomplete. Please check the list and inform me about any missing information.

BD,

As always thanks for your above and beyond efforts. I have KEF and Infinity speakers.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by vega2K

BD,

As always thanks for your above and beyond efforts. I have KEF and Infinity speakers.

Thanks.

[billlh]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

It all depends on the options available on your receiver. My Denon receiver has separate options for multi-channel movies and different options for two-channel music. Depending on your receiver, you have three options for 2-channel music:

1. In the receiver's menu, set the Sansui front speakers to large and set the subwoofer to NO. You will get basic two channel music.
2. Set your front speakers to SMALL and subwoofer to LFE. Set the crossover frequency to 60Hz or 80Hz. All your stereo music will become 2.1. The front speakers will play the frequencies above the crossover and the subwoofer plays the frequencies below the crossover.
3. Set your front speakers to LARGE and the subwoofer to LFE+Main. If your receiver offers this option for two-chanel music, set the crossover to 60Hz or 80Hz. In this case, the low frequency sound below the crossover will be played by the subwoofer and the front speakers.

I like option 2 the best.

I think you missed the point of my question Big Daddy, that or I'm just thinking this out wrong. Won't the Sansui's having the 16.5" woofers go as low as the sub? Being that they were $250.00 speakers back in the 70's, I should think today they would be at least ten times that price to duplicate them. Given these sub's are sub $200.00 speakers in todays prices, they shouldn't even be in the same league? So I guess my point is the Sansui's should go as low and thump as hard as this sub? Or maybe I'm missing something here? I suppose the case could be made that the sub has a better amp since my HK is only 50 watts per channel. The sub is 400 watts and it's all dedicated to one speaker. I still think I should use the full range of the Sansui's though? Seems like a waste not to use those big woofers?

Bill

[DavidinGA]

Originally Posted by callas01

Awesome, We need BD to post in the Energy thread all the owners of Energy speakers so we know who to ask questions to and new prospective owners can ask individuals questions regarding certian speakers.

I like your set up. How are the C-50s, I want to get one and replace my Sony B1000 which is my 6th speaker so that I have all Energys. even though it isn't used a ton....

For the size of my room (13ftx21ft rectangle) the C-50's work great! They would probably work great for much larger rooms too as the surround speakers don't need to be very big/powerful unless you play your movies at extremely loud volumes (uncomfortably loud volume).

FWIW...I chose the C50's over the C100's for surrounds because the C100's are just too big to mount on the wall/ceiling.

Cheers

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by billlh

I think you missed the point of my question Big Daddy, that or I'm just thinking this out wrong. Won't the Sansui's having the 16.5" woofers go as low as the sub? Being that they were $250.00 speakers back in the 70's, I should think today they would be at least ten times that price to duplicate them. Given these sub's are sub $200.00 speakers in todays prices, they shouldn't even be in the same league? So I guess my point is the Sansui's should go as low and thump as hard as this sub? Or maybe I'm missing something here? I suppose the case could be made that the sub has a better amp since my HK is only 50 watts per channel. The sub is 400 watts and it's all dedicated to one speaker. I still think I should use the full range of the Sansui's though? Seems like a waste not to use those big woofers?

Bill

Size of the woofer is only one factor. The quality of the woofer, the size and design of the cabinet and port, and the fact that a powered sub has its own dedicated amplifier play a role. Also,the location of a subwoofer in the room is an important factor in determining the quality of the bass sound.

Although those old Sansui speakers can do a pretty good job, I don't believe they can go as low as a dedicated subwoofer.

[4x12]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

• On the back of the sub, turn the level to 60%-65%.
• On the back of the sub, turn the crossover knob all the way up to its maximum point.
• In the receiver's menu, set the subwoofer to ON.
• In the receiver's menu, set all your speakers to SMALL.
• In the receiver's menu, set the high pass filter (HPF) of the front speakers to 60Hz.
• In the receiver's menu, set the HPF of your surround and center speakers to 80Hz.
• In the receiver's menu, set the low pass filter of the subwoofer to 120Hz.
• Run the receiver' calibration program and make sure the speaker levels are equal.
• After calibration, you can adjust the above settings if the receiver messed them up.
• If your receiver doesn't allow to set the HPF of the individual speakers and has only one crossover setting, set it to 80Hz.

Set the sound to LFE only. Bass coming out of the fronts and subwoofer may result in phase cancellation problem. For two-channel music, you can try it and see if you like the sound of LFE or LFE+L&R.

Hey BD, So I finally got the chance to setup the SUB today. Followed you're list above, and all seems good. Like you mentioned above, my system didnt allow me to tweak each speakers HPF levels so I set the main crossover level to 80Hz.

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

• Run the receiver' calibration program and make sure the speaker levels are equal.

When I did this small test there wasnt any sound coming from the sub... all other speakers had whitenoise passing through except the sub. Is that normal ?

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Set the sound to LFE only. Bass coming out of the fronts and subwoofer may result in phase cancellation problem. For two-channel music, you can try it and see if you like the sound of SUB or LFE+L&R.

I was sure I screwed something up this afternoon after reading this. Once I did everything you mentioned above I noticed the HK would only show SUB in the speaker menu and wouldn't give me the option of changing it to anything else. And I know i've seen the SUB LFE+L/R option in the settings before but I couldn't change them at this time. So a little confused and wondering what I did wrong I pulled out the HK manual and read this

The choices available for the subwoofer position will depend on the settings for the other speakers, particularly the front left/right positions. If the front left/right speakers are set to SMALL, the subwoofer will automatically be set to SUB, which is the “on” position. If the front left/right speakers are set to LARGE, three options are available: None, SUB or SUB LFE+L/R

So I guess all is good with the setup. But i will eventually test it both ways and see how it all sounds.

My first test with the HDSUB12 was The Dark Knight. Like many others mentioned before me, I wasnt sure if the sub was working at all. The red light was on, I even got a Monster Y connecter yesterday ($7.99) to get those few extra DB's, I raised the SUB's level in the OSD menu to +6 to see if I get something more... when I put my hand on the box I can feel somethings going on, when I touch the driver I can feel it move, so i know its getting a signal but it feels low. I can feel that deep "OMPH" in the movie but it seems a little low... maybe I was expecting something more "boomy" like what I've heard in the past from cheap subs or overcranked subs? This is my first sub so I most likely need to get feel of it. I was even wondering if I put too much polyfill in there and caused the sub a drop in performance ?? But I did it just like Jomari did... and he seems to love his! I just need to break her in over the next few days and see how I react to it.

I tried out a few different listening positions in the living room and it sounded pretty good in all spots, maybe a little louder when sitting close to it. But now I can already imagine how another HDSUB12 would sound like in here

The living room is about 10.5L x 9 W and theres two french doors spliting the livingroom from WAF's reading room (WAF's room is about 8 x 8 more or less). I always keep one of the doors open and thats where I put the sub. Right in front of that open door... so its in between both rooms. Theres a full room of open space behind the sub so nothing to worry about.

So far so good. I'm liking what i'm hearing, nothing overkill, nothing "boomy", just some nice deep rumbles.

[billlh]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Size of the woofer is only one factor. The quality of the woofer, the size and design of the cabinet and port, and the fact that a powered sub has its own dedicated amplifier play a role. Also,the location of a subwoofer in the room is an important factor in determining the quality of the bass sound.

Although those old Sansui speakers can do a pretty good job, I don't believe they can go as low as a dedicated subwoofer.

Well I agree having a dedicated amp can't hurt. I guess I'm just sort of attached to my old Sansui's and your probably right. I do know long before their were subs I never felt like I was missing much. It just seems like a waste to cut the bass off at 60 to 80 on these. Guess the only way to know for sure is to play with the settings and see what comes of it. I'll report back when I get some time to play with it. Have to be on a rainy day since it is now summer in the North East and I got too many outside projects.

Bill

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by 4x12

Hey BD, So I finally got the chance to setup the SUB today. Followed you're list above, and all seems good. Like you mentioned above, my system didnt allow me to tweak each speakers HPF levels so I set the main crossover level to 80Hz.



When I did this small test there wasnt any sound coming from the sub... all other speakers had whitenoise passing through except the sub. Is that normal ?



I was sure I screwed something up this afternoon after reading this. Once I did everything you mentioned above I noticed the HK would only show SUB in the speaker menu and wouldn't give me the option of changing it to anything else. And I know i've seen the SUB LFE+L/R option in the settings before but I couldn't change them at this time. So a little confused and wondering what I did wrong I pulled out the HK manual and read this

The choices available for the subwoofer position will depend on the settings for the other speakers, particularly the front left/right positions. If the front left/right speakers are set to SMALL, the subwoofer will automatically be set to SUB, which is the “on” position. If the front left/right speakers are set to LARGE, three options are available: None, SUB or SUB LFE+L/R

So I guess all is good with the setup. But i will eventually test it both ways and see how it all sounds.

My first test with the HDSUB12 was The Dark Knight. Like many others mentioned before me, I wasnt sure if the sub was working at all. The red light was on, I even got a Monster Y connecter yesterday ($7.99) to get those few extra DB's, I raised the SUB's level in the OSD menu to +6 to see if I get something more... when I put my hand on the box I can feel somethings going on, when I touch the driver I can feel it move, so i know its getting a signal but it feels low. I can feel that deep "OMPH" in the movie but it seems a little low... maybe I was expecting something more "boomy" like what I've heard in the past from cheap subs or overcranked subs? This is my first sub so I most likely need to get feel of it. I was even wondering if I put too much polyfill in there and caused the sub a drop in performance ?? But I did it just like Jomari did... and he seems to love his! I just need to break her in over the next few days and see how I react to it.

I tried out a few different listening positions in the living room and it sounded pretty good in all spots, maybe a little louder when sitting close to it. But now I can already imagine how another HDSUB12 would sound like in here

The living room is about 10.5L x 9 W and theres two french doors spliting the livingroom from WAF's reading room (WAF's room is about 8 x 8 more or less). I always keep one of the doors open and thats where I put the sub. Right in front of that open door... so its in between both rooms. Theres a full room of open space behind the sub so nothing to worry about.

So far so good. I'm liking what i'm hearing, nothing overkill, nothing "boomy", just some nice deep rumbles.

Generally speaking, it is best to set all the speakers to SMALL. If you want a little more bass output, increase the level on the back of the sub, but don't go above 75%. I have mine set below 50% in a 20ft x 24ft dedicated HT room and it is pretty loud. Make sure the crossover on the back of the sub is set to its maximum level.

[4x12]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Generally speaking, it is best to set all the speakers to SMALL. If you want a little more bass output, increase the level on the back of the sub, but don't go above 75%. I have mine set below 50% in a 20ft x 24ft dedicated HT room and it is pretty loud. Make sure the crossover on the back of the sub is set to its maximum level.

Hey BD, I'm leaving the Energy's set to SMALL and ill be giving her a few more workouts this week before I push her a little more. I want to make sure she gets a proper break in time. BTW, does the "100hr break in time" for regular speakers apply to subs ? As for the levels, I have the level on the back set between 50% to 60% at the moment. I wasn't sure if I should push it above that for now since its still new... don't want to damage it.

The main thing is this, since I never had a sub i'm not sure if what i'm hearing is what I should really be hearing... follow me ?

more to come.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by 4x12

Hey BD, I'm leaving the Energy's set to SMALL and ill be giving her a few more workouts this week before I push her a little more. I want to make sure she gets a proper break in time. BTW, does the "100hr break in time" for regular speakers apply to subs ? As for the levels, I have the level on the back set between 50% to 60% at the moment. I wasn't sure if I should push it above that for now since its still new... don't want to damage it.

The main thing is this, since I never had a sub i'm not sure if what i'm hearing is what I should really be hearing... follow me ?

more to come.

The 100 hours is an upper limit. Most speakers do not need that much time to break in. Some experts say that it is the brain that needs the break-in time to adjust to the new speaker/subwoofer sound.