Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Kage

I feel like I can go back to physical media anytime I want too.

With digital codes included with most titles what do you have to lose? If the best A/V quality available is a top priority for you then this decision should be easy.

FWIW, I have always been a no First Sale Doctrine protection = a no sale for me type of person. I have done several DVD2Digital and redeemed quite a few codes. The DVD2Digital in most cases was a waste of money because the DVD audio and sometimes video, was better. My 2¢

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Vor4

Here’s a word of warning for you: “Before you do go back to physical media, think of all the money you wasted on the unwatched digital movies and your big collection of iTunes movies.” I still think that it’ll be a mistake for you to go back to physical media.

Your comment is patently ridiculous.

His existing digital collection will not vanish if he chooses to start buying discs again. He retains what he has already purchased and he can watch titles in his digital collection whenever he wants. His digital collection will even continue to grow, if he so wishes, as digital codes often accompany disc purchases.

I have 97 digital titles redeemed in MA and I have never watched any of them as I own them on disc also. I buy discs practically every week and amazingly enough all of my digital titles remain. If I cared to redeem the codes included with my discs, I would have a far larger digital collection, but I am just never in the mood to watch a lower quality audio/video presentation of my movies. I can't be bothered to redeem my codes as doing so is of no value to me.

None of the "reasons" you have given are even qualified to be called reasons as there is nothing rational about them. He will not lose access to his digital collection no matter what he decides to do going forward.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

This is an interesting article about Blu-Ray - specifically titles available on Blu-Ray and not via streaming.

https://www.wired.com/story/blu-ray-...skMLsF0-2mWhVo

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

This is an interesting article about Blu-Ray - specifically titles available on Blu-Ray and not via streaming.

https://www.wired.com/story/blu-ray-...skMLsF0-2mWhVo

There are likely a very large number of titles in my collection that I can not stream from any source. I will not let streaming services dictate what I watch. The number of classic and catalog titles that they lack are shocking. By owning a physical copy, the omissions of streaming services are entirely irrelevant.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Here's the segment from the recent episode of Adam Ruins Everything about software EULAs and the issues with them.

For anyone who doesn't normally watch this show, the intent is to explain and educate people about issues that they might not be aware of or common misconceptions. There is a lot of humor injected into it for entertainment purposes, but the information provided is meant to be truthful and they list their sources in the corner of the screen. I'm not claiming them to be infallible, and some people have pointed out issues with some past segments (and they even mentioned some of those corrections in an episode at one point), but I just wanted to clarify the intent.

For context, the woman with Adam is called Cori, and she's supposed to be similar to an Alexa device. She started out as a little box and turned into a humanoid form earlier in the episode. This is meant to be surreal and is part of the humor aspect. But I'm just giving context so that no one is completely thrown off.

Why You Don't Own Your Tech - YouTube

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Here's the segment from the recent episode of Adam Ruins Everything about software EULAs and the issues with them.

For anyone who doesn't normally watch this show, the intent is to explain and educate people about issues that they might not be aware of or common misconceptions. There is a lot of humor injected into it for entertainment purposes, but the information provided is meant to be truthful and they list their sources in the corner of the screen. I'm not claiming them to be infallible, and some people have pointed out issues with some past segments (and they even mentioned some of those corrections in an episode at one point), but I just wanted to clarify the intent.

For context, the women with Adam is called Cori, and she's supposed to be similar to an Alexa device. She started out as a little box and turned into a humanoid form earlier in the episode. This is meant to be surreal and is part of the humor aspect. But I'm just giving context so that no one is completely thrown off.

[Show spoiler]Why You Don't Own Your Tech - YouTube

Alarming, yet entertaining. This was my first viewing of "Adam Ruins Everything." I look forward to seeing more of his ruinations, if my devices will allow it.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Some of you may be interested in this poll over at AVS. 437 have voted so it is a fair sample size.

Originally Posted by Vilya

As much as I enjoy polls that show support for physical media, this poll is every bit as unscientific as the one posted earlier on this website:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...=310310&page=3

Now the poll linked above only has 80 respondents whereas the AVS site has 437+, but it must be noted that both of these sites cater heavily to those who would likely prefer disc in the first place.

This AVS poll is interesting in that it is comparing 4K streaming to blu-ray discs and that most prefer blu-ray disc, 48.4%, while 30.59% prefer 4K streaming and 9.82% think they are about equal.

If you combine those who think that 4K streaming looks better with those who think it looks the same, you have a full 40.41% who do not see blu-ray discs as being better. It is not a runaway preference for blu-ray disc even at a website like AVS which is likely biased toward disc. AVS members are often considered to more knowledgeable than the average bear, especially according to them , and even among this "elite" group those preferring the quality of blu-ray disc to 4K streaming is not an overwhelming majority.

It is also needs to be pointed out that 7.53% of all respondents refuse to stream at all and are therefore not well qualified to assess the differences between 4K streaming quality and that of blu-ray discs. If they do not stream, they are not in a position to evaluate it.

Similarly, 3.65% refuse to buy discs and they are also not ideally suited to judge the differences. In total, that means that 11.18% of respondents are not really qualified to make this assessment at all. A truly scientific poll would not even include such respondents, among other considerations.

Personally, I have done very little 4K streaming. What I have seen looks very good, but I have not seen enough to categorically declare that blu-ray disc looks better. I will say that 4K discs certainly look better than a 4K stream, again based tentatively on what few comparisons I have seen. I will still buy a movie on blu-ray disc every.single.time. over buying a 4K digital copy even if I were to decide in favor of the quality of a 4K stream. I will only buy that which I can actually own, period.

I enjoy unscientific polls as much as anyone, especially when they align with my preferences, but I do not confuse them with being a real barometer measuring consumer opinions as a whole. The forum members at AVS are not representative of consumers as a whole anymore than the forum members at blu-ray.com are; they are both a very small and select group- especially when you only include those who actively participate on these forums.

Do people really need a poll on this (or try and make excuses for the results)

Unless we get to the point of infinit bandwidth (i.e. BW is not an issue so things don't need to be bit starved and they can go as high as needed) virtual media will always be at a disadvantage over physical media . True resolution isn't a matter of how many pixels you say you have but how many truly independent elements you can have and that will almost always be limited by BW (be it physical or virtual).

[Vilya]

People enjoy polls, even unscientific ones, especially when the results show what they wanted to see all along.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Why is it "too late?" Is there something in the EULAs that forbids him? Is it you that forbids him? Precisely where is the point of no return? 200 digital titles? 500? 798? At what point is one condemned to digital only? Exactly what evil would befall him if he switched back?

Do I have too many blu-rays to buy 4K discs? Hell, do I have too many DVDs to buy blu-rays? What penalties have I unknowingly incurred?

If I were wanting to switch to digital (fat chance!) would you likewise tell me it is too late? Would you sentence me to a lifetime of disc ownership only? If so, I eagerly await my fate.

Unless it was meant to be sarcastic/trolling I don't get it either.


like you said should I have not updated from VHs because my count was >800, how about DVD where the count >3000 or BD that was even higher?

Originally Posted by Vor4

Here’s a word of warning for you: “Before you do go back to physical media, think of all the money you wasted on the unwatched digital movies and your big collection of iTunes movies.” I still think that it’ll be a mistake for you to go back to physical media.

this is the way I see it, the options one has whne it comes to movies are

a) decide not to watch movie

b) spend 20$ for premium ticket at theatre+ popcorn+ drink to watch it once (* the number I might pay for)

c) buy disk (or in the OPs case digital copy) and watch it as often by as many people that want to watch it.

d) rent film

e) wait for it to be on TV

Now a) is boring , d) is not my style and e) is unpredictable. So if I go with c) and pay the highest price to buy a copy and watch it only once it is still a cheaper option than b) and the quality of my set-up, the snacks and my ability to controll my environment are all far better at home. So the price of buying a copy is well worth it even if I see only once.

Plus why do you care how Kage spends his cash? is he asking you to pay for it? (like a kid going "can I have $ to buy Y".

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

People enjoy polls, even unscientific ones, especially when the results show what they wanted to see all along.

Hope you did not get offended by my previous post. Did not mean it to be condesending or insulting.


My point was that if we go with a torture test where every "pixel" is a different colour in one frame and all of them different colous in the next frame none of these medias would come close to representing it accurately (even if the origanal frames where SD). In the end the one that has the highest BW will always do a more accurate representation over fake resolution because real resolution is limited by content (i.e. a completely black screen can be acurately represented by one pixel and very little data) and bandwidth. Unless max bandwidth of the media can equal the simple math of #pixels * colour depth * frames per second the one with higher BW for video will always have higher PQ then the one with lower BW.

Now if someone cares or even should care that is a different story.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Hope you did not get offended by my previous post. Did not mean it to be condesending or insulting.


My point was that if we go with a torture test where every "pixel" is a different colour in one frame and all of them different colous in the next frame none of these medias would come close to representing it accurately (even if the origanal frames where SD). In the end the one that has the highest BW will always do a more accurate representation over fake resolution because real resolution is limited by content (i.e. a completely black screen can be acurately represented by one pixel and very little data) and bandwidth. Unless max bandwidth of the media can equal the simple math of #pixels * colour depth * frames per second the one with higher BW for video will always have higher PQ then the one with lower BW.

Now if someone cares or even should care that is a different story.

There was nothing offensive about your comment whatsoever. I was just saying people like polls, particularly when a poll seems to affirm their beliefs. That's why we have so many amateur versions of them in forums everywhere.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vor4

Here’s a word of warning for you: “Before you do go back to physical media, think of all the money you wasted on the unwatched digital movies and your big collection of iTunes movies.” I still think that it’ll be a mistake for you to go back to physical media.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

this is the way I see it, the options one has whne it comes to movies are

IMO, Vor4 is just trolling. Another ridiculous post here by that poster.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

IMO, Vor4 is just trolling. Another ridiculous post here by that poster.

Trolls are prolific creatures, advertising their ignorance far and wide.

Responding to all of the stupidity contained in that idiotic three paragraph post would require that I come out of retirement. It looks like many of you already took him to task for most of it, so I can keep my leisurely existence uninterrupted.

[danny24]

I have been streaming only for a few weeks and I can honestly say while convenient (click of the remote) to many services often don't have what I am looking for. Netflix has a few nice titles but most of it is B-movie junk, iTunes, Vudu, Amazon Prime prices are ok but I would rather buy the hard copy (BD or 4K UHD) and have the digital copy code to boot to add to stream. Some of the free services like Tubi you have to sit through advertising obviously.

So imo if you want to buy a movie the best value is physical media because it usually comes with the digital code so you can stream it later and you have a hard copy to. Streaming has it's advantages and disadvantages obviously.

Nothing beats playing a Blu-ray or 4K UHD disc. So I plan to keep collecting movies physically and also digitally to stream.

Both are good but streaming feels more for the renter kind of viewer at times so kind of cheapened. iTunes movies is very good for a collector who wants nothing to do with discs anymore.

I hope discs keep being made and stay alive as I prefer both physical media and streaming. With most new releases you get both if you purchase.

So having tried the streaming only route I can say I would not want to stop playing or buying discs, there simply isn't enough available out there to stop and nothing beats a nice BD/4K UHD spinning it's av heaven.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by danny24

I have been streaming only for a few weeks and I can honestly say while convenient (click of the remote) to many services often don't have what I am looking for. Netflix has a few nice titles but most of it is B-movie junk, iTunes, Vudu, Amazon Prime prices are ok but I would rather buy the hard copy (BD or 4K UHD) and have the digital copy code to boot to add to stream. Some of the free services like Tubi you have to sit through advertising obviously.

So imo if you want to buy a movie the best value is physical media because it usually comes with the digital code so you can stream it later and you have a hard copy to. Streaming has it's advantages and disadvantages obviously.

Nothing beats playing a Blu-ray or 4K UHD disc. So I plan to keep collecting movies physically and also digitally to stream.

Both are good but streaming feels more for the renter kind of viewer at times so kind of cheapened. iTunes movies is very good for a collector who wants nothing to do with discs anymore.

I hope discs keep being made and stay alive as I prefer both physical media and streaming. With most new releases you get both if you purchase.

So having tried the streaming only route I can say I would not want to stop playing or buying discs, there simply isn't enough available out there to stop and nothing beats a nice BD/4K UHD spinning it's av heaven.

I'm glad you appreciate physical media for what it offers. It is certainly fine to stream, especially for titles that you do not wish to own, but still want to see at least once.

I, too, have found Netflix, and others, to offer a lot of obscure content that I have never even heard of, which is fine, if their selection did not also lack a lot of better known titles. Streaming services are particularly weak on classic and catalog titles.

Digital copies are convenient and seeing as they accompany most disc purchases, buying the disc offers all of what both have to offer. The price difference between the disc package and the digital copy alone is often very small, too. While I personally do not use my digital codes, I at least have that option should I ever want convenience more than quality even though that is unlikely to ever happen.

[danny24]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I'm glad you appreciate physical media for what it offers. It is certainly fine to stream, especially for titles that you do not wish to own, but still want to see at least once.

I, too, have found Netflix, and others, to offer a lot of obscure content that I have never even heard of, which is fine, if their selection did not also lack a lot of better known titles. Streaming services are particularly weak on classic and catalog titles.

Digital copies are convenient and seeing as they accompany most disc purchases, buying the disc offers all of what both have to offer. The price difference between the disc package and the digital copy alone is often very small, too. While I personally do not use my digital codes, I at least have that option should I ever want convenience more than quality even though that is unlikely to ever happen.

Streaming only is fine if that's how you want your entertainment fed to you. I tried it for about 2 weeks all I did was stream. I do think streaming is fine and glad it's around and I enjoy it but I am glad I still have my player and collection of discs to fall back on as there just wasn't enough content to abandon a physical media collection in favor of it.

What is often not discussed by streaming enthusiasts is the reality that unless you have the digital code handy you have to buy and purchase all the movies over again you already have on disc to own the movie digitally. A big hassle and it can burn a hole in your wallet fast.

Netflix at one time also had more movies than they currently carry today I guess the studios made some to expensive to license for them.

Going to stick with discs and streaming. So yes both do the job.

I just don't understand how people can stop buying discs in favor of streaming. It's more fun to do both and with both the hard copy and digital copy better value.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by danny24

Streaming only is fine if that's how you want your entertainment fed to you. I tried it for about 2 weeks all I did was stream. I do think streaming is fine and glad it's around and I enjoy it but I am glad I still have my player and collection of discs to fall back on as there just wasn't enough content to abandon a physical media collection in favor of it.

What is often not discussed by streaming enthusiasts is the reality that unless you have the digital code handy you have to buy and purchase all the movies over again you already have on disc to own the movie digitally. A big hassle and it can burn a hole in your wallet fast.

Netflix at one time also had more movies than they currently carry today I guess the studios made some to expensive to license for them.

Going to stick with discs and streaming. So yes both do the job.

I just don't understand how people can stop buying discs in favor of streaming. It's more fun to do both and with both the hard copy and digital copy better value.

That Poll that was taken follows your kind of thinking, both Dics and Digital. I mainly only do Digital now, but I still have a Panasonic Blu-ray Player hooked up and a large collection of DVD's, BD, and Back-ups. My Digital Collection is almost at 700, and you're right to get a Digital Copy you need the Disc. Like everything else, you shop for the best price. There are plenty of Code Stores, and here on this Site you can shop for Digital Codes. I now have Amazon Prime, Netflix, and Vudu with many more. So Digital for me is not a problem!

[danny24]

Originally Posted by alchav21

That Poll that was taken follows your kind of thinking, both Dics and Digital. I mainly only do Digital now, but I still have a Panasonic Blu-ray Player hooked up and a large collection of DVD's, BD, and Back-ups. My Digital Collection is almost at 700, and you're right to get a Digital Copy you need the Disc. Like everything else, you shop for the best price. There are plenty of Code Stores, and here on this Site you can shop for Digital Codes. I now have Amazon Prime, Netflix, and Vudu with many more. So Digital for me is not a problem!

I mean't what they are charging for it on Vudu, iTunes movies, Amazon Prime. Shopping around is a different story you can find some good deals on digital codes on here but if your a real fan or like a movie so much it's better value to just buy the disc as it usually comes with the digital code so you can stream it to. Nothing wrong with streaming but just not enough content out there to stream only imo for me and abandon disc collecting and a disc collection. You also have to pay for the digital purchases and if you own it on disc already it's so much cheaper.

So you can find deals on both or digital if you do shop around like you said.

So for me I am staying disc and and digital, both work for me. Will stream and play discs.

[Vilya]

Vudu failed me tonight.

I was watching a "Free With Ads" movie that they advertised and about 1 hour 10 minutes into the movie their website went down at about 8:50 PM local time. I am typing this comment, while Vudu's website is down, on my hardwired pc. My TV is also hard wired to the internet.

I can connect to any website with every device I own except for Vudu. My internet connection speed test is completely normal, 135 Mbps down and 16 Mbps upload. Vudu has simply crashed.

I reiterate that this is why I will NEVER rely on any streaming service to provide my movie and TV show entertainment. Streaming is unreliable, either the ISP fails or the service itself does or even both at the same time.

While this is no great tragedy in the grand scheme of things, it is certainly an annoyance. I am entitled in this instance, however, to say in all caps that STREAMING SUCKS. At 9:08 PM Vudu is still down and none of my devices can access it. You may now return to any regularly scheduled rant in the thread of your choice.

[Vilya]

Vudu is back up after having been down for over 20 minutes and in order to resume what I was watching, I have to do a manual search for the title all over again.

I relocated the title and the site will neither allow me to resume it or to start it from the beginning. Quite amateurish; I have no idea why anyone would tolerate such "service."

After about a half dozen tries at resuming the movie, I finally got it finished, but all the interruptions killed the mood.