Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga 4K UHD (1977-2019)

[gameguru]

While we're on topic of the Special Edition, is there any truth to the rumor that Lucas recut the films so Marcia Lucas couldn't get royalties anymore? Seems pretty salty if true, not that I'd put that past Lucas.

[KMFDMvsEnya]

Originally Posted by gameguru

While we're on topic of the Special Edition, is there any truth to the rumor that Lucas recut the films so Marcia Lucas couldn't get royalties anymore? Seems pretty salty if true, not that I'd put that past Lucas.

It was never true.

[gameguru]

Originally Posted by Atomic Salad

PlayStation 1 graphics aside, the reason that scene is stupid is because Han stomps on Jabba's tail without any consequences. It looks stupid and it is stupid because all Jabba does is go "ZOINKS! OWIE!" instead of telling Boba Fett to shoot Han for his insolence.

Worst part about that scene is that we learn nothing new that Greedo didn't already tell us before. There's a reason it was on the cutting room floor in the first place.

Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya

It was never true.

I kinda figured as much, but I wasn't sure. Sometimes the most outrageous rumors end up being true.

[PondaBaba]

My first encounter with SW was at 7yo seeing the ‘97 SE in a cinema and then our family being given the ‘95 VHS (with the nice John Alvin artwork for the covers, which iirc is what wookiepedia said was used for all of the non-US/NA releases, which had the ‘faces’ design instead) by a friend of my parents, so it’s the non-SE presentation on these tapes that’s what I grew up with really, although my friend had the SE trilogy on VHS too so I’d have watched those versions a ton at his house too. By the time the DVDs came around in ‘04 I wasn’t watching SW too much

[Show spoiler](and indeed only saw RotS once at the cinema in release and remained that way until last year where I’ve since seen seen it in the cinema again several times)

I never posted about it in the ANH 4K thread when the discussion was going on but now that the opportunity presents itself having been able to revisit the theatrical version of the first one recently

[Show spoiler]having been one of the lucky ones that was successful in the ballot to watch the original release print of SW at the BFI’s Film on Film festival a month or two ago

, I found there’s only 4 instances where I felt the changes made in the SE were not necessarily necessary, but certainly justified or reasonable:

1. explosion of alderaan - underwhelming and wimpy in the OG so don’t mind this being beefed up to something more impactful at all

2. Mos Eisley - this really does seem pretty empty and barren in its original version (at least pre-cantina - i.e. speeder going into town and then in dialogue outside of cantina before they go inside - post cantina going through the alley to DB94 it feels like it’s chock full of life): Of course had it been left as it was I don’t think anyone would have minded/cared/noticed all that much, but having the comparison to how it looks in the SE with the additional scope added to the place with the inserts of the expanded settlement via the new wide shots and in the background of existing shots, especially given how ME would (presumably - I’ve not read any novels/comics but played plenty of old LA games though I don’t remember whether there was anything set in ME) actually become fleshed out further in EU works to be the bustling spaceport settlement it was originally envisaged as being at least in GL’s mind, broadly I don’t mind the attempt for this to be reflected in the SE (it’s just the ‘90s cg execution that brings it down)

3. During the post-trash compactor Death Star sequence when Han and Chewie are running down the corridor and jump through the closing blast doors with storm troopers behind them who on being too slow end up stuck behind the now closed blast doors and ask for them to be opened - the SE adds (back?) in the storm troopers commanding ‘close the blast doors close the blast doors’ prior to the request to open them in an attempt to trap Han and chewie in time - makes for a nice/funny moment that’s not in the original (at least wide-release version - I think I remember reading recently the line actually was included in one original theatrical version or another - perhaps the 70mm blow up?)

4. adding Luke and Bigg’s reuniting on Yavin 4 rebel base pre-sortie was a great addition and you get a bit of weight with Bigg’s death

From previous recent discussion in the ANH 4K thread, I was assuming that I’d also want to retain some of the added elements of the battle of yavin itself too, but having now seen the OG fresh, I really dont care about them and all of it is unnecessary in terms of making an enjoyable (and actually still exhilarating) experience. In addition, what I also actually appreciated about this was seeing what they actually achieved for this part of the film with the technology and techniques they had (or indeed, created) back then, which yeah at least to me still seemed seriously impressive. I don’t mind the SE changes to the BoY but again (and ofc not saying anything new here) the ‘90s cg execution is jarring at times so I can take it or leave it and would be more than happy had it been left alone.

Apart from Han not shooting first most egregious SE change across the whole trilogy is probably Jedi Rocks imo, though I won’t have seen the non-SE of Empire since the ‘90s/early ‘00s so should I get a few watches of both versions under my belt at some point (I’ve done several watches of the OT SE trilogy in recent years, just not the originals outside of the one recent BFI screening for SW) to refamiliarise myself, I’m interested to know whether I’d agree with people who’ve taken issue with the dialogue and editing of the bit around the ‘bring me my shuttle’ sequence as it wasn’t something I was completely aware of before

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by PondaBaba

3. During the post-trash compactor Death Star sequence when Han and Chewie are running down the corridor and jump through the closing blast doors with storm troopers behind them who on being too slow end up stuck behind the now closed blast doors and ask for them to be opened - the SE adds (back?) in the storm troopers commanding ‘close the blast doors close the blast doors’ prior to the request to open them in an attempt to trap Han and chewie in time - makes for a nice/funny moment that’s not in the original (at least wide-release version - I think I remember reading recently the line actually was included in one original theatrical version or another - perhaps the 70mm blow up?)

It was in the 35mm mono mix. Same with 3PO’s tractor beam line.

[gameguru]

Here's a few resources I read from time to time on Star Wars that are very informative and not talked about much.

This one is a real in depth look about the 97 Special Edition and 2004 Lowry restoration. It's probably my favorite of the bunch:

http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryo...gstarwars.html

This one details the differences between the Mono, Dolby Stereo, and 70mm 6 track releases of ANH. The audio samples are gone in Google Chrome at least, I think it may be a compatibility issue. Other browsers may work but the page is still informative nonetheless:

https://web.archive.org/web/20151011...mono/index.htm

This one shows the many differences between the pre UHD versions of the OT and PT. This one was a fit to get working, any archive captures newer than this one just had dead links and redirects:

https://web.archive.org/web/20171216...-part-one.html

[Martoto]

I have the same problem with the 97 Jabba that I do with all subsequent SE Jabbas. They exist.

Lucas literally took his eyes of the ball when putting that stuff back in. The Jabba character he had in the movie just wasn't impressive. So he gave the important dialogue to Greedo instead. In a scene that is actually memorable. Fine.

In the SE however, he contradicts his own narrative. After making a deal with Kenobi, Solo is in a hurry to get out of Mos Eisley and pick up the fare that will save his neck with Jabba. Then Greedo intercepts him. Solo flim flams this punk about his debt to Jabba and then blithely lights him up when the Rodian tries to double cross Jabba himself. Phew. Now to get out of dodge. But wait? Now Solo calmly received Jabba in the hangar in a meeting that's actually far less intimidating than the chat with Greedo? I thought Solo was afraid of losing his neck to Jabba. But when Jabba and a half dozen hard nuts, including Boba Fett surround him, it's like he's some deadbeat palming off his elderly landlord with a line about the past due rent.

Solo greets Ben and Luke at the docking bay with "We're in a hurry.,,," Eh? No you're not.

[Roonan]

Originally Posted by gameguru

Worst part about that scene is that we learn nothing new that Greedo didn't already tell us before. There's a reason it was on the cutting room floor in the first place.

We learn that Jabba gave an extension to Han, an extension that had expired by the time of the next movie because Han chose to stick with the Rebellion.

The reason it was cut had nothing to do with the Greedo scene. That scene was added later and some of the dialogue was put there because the Jabba scene had been cut.

[Martoto]

Oh well. That really justifies the scene's awkward reinstatement.

It still contradicts Han's haste to get out of there if he just got an extension.

[Roonan]

That it's an "awkward reinstatement" is a matter of opinion.

There's no contradiction whatsoever. It's still within his interest to settle things with Jabba as soon as possible. It's the entire reason why he went on the journey he did in the movie.

And the fact that he let the extension expire by the time of Empire only underlines his selflessness by sticking with the Rebellion for so long, which is the central theme of his character.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Roonan

That it's an "awkward reinstatement" is a matter of opinion.

There's no contradiction whatsoever. It's still within his interest to settle things with Jabba as soon as possible. It's the entire reason why he went on the journey he did in the movie.

No. He was keen to get out of there because the fare for passage to Alderann was going to save his neck. He was in a hurry to get out of there. Since Jabba got to him first and an extension was granted. Solo is no longer in such a hurry to get out of Mos Eisley. Except he is when Luke and Kenobi show up. In the original version he knew he was being hunted by Jabba and that's why he was in a hurry to leave in the original. In the Jabba versions, his haste to board and leave has just had its motivation completely removed.

When Solo says "We're in a bit of a hurry" he's referring to the encounter with Greedo. But in the Jabba version, that situation has just been defused. So it makes no sense for him to be in a hurry. Jabba didn't give him a deadline or tell him to hurry.

After Greedo just tried to kill him, it doesn't make much sense, either, for Han to humiliate and nickel and dime the supposedly fearsome Jabba he was trying to avoid a moment ago, for fear of his neck.

Originally Posted by Roonan

And the fact that he let the extension expire by the time of Empire only underlines his selflessness by sticking with the Rebellion for so long, which is the central theme of his character.

He had a death mark when the left Mos Eisley and then hung around to help Luke at the end of the original version and beyond.

He has an extension in the special and current versions. How does it make it more selfless that he hung around with the rebellion? Because he's accepting reputational damage for blowing off an extension?

[gameguru]

Originally Posted by Roonan

We learn that Jabba gave an extension to Han, an extension that had expired by the time of the next movie because Han chose to stick with the Rebellion.

The reason it was cut had nothing to do with the Greedo scene. That scene was added later and some of the dialogue was put there because the Jabba scene had been cut.

Hey trust me, I'm probably the least critical person of the Special Edition on the Internet. But even with that being said I can identify the redundancy of the Jabba scene irrespective of the fact it came first before the final edit. It's inclusion without the removal of the Greedo scene is just unnecessary padding. Realistically it was likely only included because Lucas wanted to test a fully CG Jabba before Phantom Menace.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by gameguru

Here's a few resources I read from time to time on Star Wars that are very informative and not talked about much.

This one is a real in depth look about the 97 Special Edition and 2004 Lowry restoration. It's probably my favorite of the bunch:

http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryo...gstarwars.html

This one details the differences between the Mono, Dolby Stereo, and 70mm 6 track releases of ANH. The audio samples are gone in Google Chrome at least, I think it may be a compatibility issue. Other browsers may work but the page is still informative nonetheless:

https://web.archive.org/web/20151011...mono/index.htm

This one shows the many differences between the pre UHD versions of the OT and PT. This one was a fit to get working, any archive captures newer than this one just had dead links and redirects:

https://web.archive.org/web/20171216...-part-one.html

The secret history one is pretty well known but it doesn't get everything correct and drops in a fair bit of conjecture too. Star Wars' OG negative wasn't ultimately recut as the SE after all, as it was cut A/B to begin with they produced a C-roll of all the SE changes:

[gameguru]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The secret history one is pretty well known but it doesn't get everything correct and drops in a fair bit of conjecture too.

Yeah I figured there was a bit of conjecture in there. At one point they mention that Lucas likely scanned the Negatives in 1080p for the Lowry transfers because of the cameras Lucas was using for the prequels was at that resolution. But in another article I read, according to John Lowry himself, it was because of all the CGI and it would have been too taxing on computers at the time to render in 4K. Even though 4K was the standard workflow Lowry worked in.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by gameguru

Hey trust me, I'm probably the least critical person of the Special Edition on the Internet. But even with that being said I can identify the redundancy of the Jabba scene irrespective of the fact it came first before the final edit. It's inclusion without the removal of the Greedo scene is just unnecessary padding. Realistically it was likely only included because Lucas wanted to test a fully CG Jabba before Phantom Menace.

At the time I think it was also a good marketing piece— you weren’t just seeing Star Wars in the theater, you were seeing it with new scenes you’ve never seen before! A shot of that Jabba scene was in all of the ads and trailers for the rerelease.
But yeah, I never thought of it as a good scene that should be in the movie. From an editing standpoint it’s derivative. Plus it deflates both the reveal of the Falcon in the next scene and Jabba in RotJ.

[crissrudd4554]

Greedo shooting first aside, if they had recut the Greedo scene for the SE more in line to how it was intended originally before they ultimately cut the Jabba scene for the original release, the redundancy would be less apparent. What makes the matters worse is not only is there repeated dialogue in both scenes as is, it’s literally the same recordings! Listen to when Han says “Even I get boarded sometimes. You think I had a choice??” It’s literally syllable by syllable the same in both scenes. They lifted the dialogue from the Jabba scene and copy and pasted it to the Greedo scene and just added some filtering to make it blend into the cantina.

[PondaBaba]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

[Show spoiler]The secret history one is pretty well known but it doesn't get everything correct and drops in a fair bit of conjecture too.

Star Wars' OG negative wasn't ultimately recut as the SE after all, as it was cut A/B to begin with they produced a C-roll of all the SE changes:

[Show spoiler]

Can you expand on this for those not familiar with this sort of stuff? Hearing the term ‘b-roll’ I’m thinking of photography by a second unit that does close ups of a stand-in (for the main) actors hand etc., which I’m assuming is a totally different context to the one in which it’s used here, right? Or is it the same?

Eta if it’s explained in those links, I wouldn’t know as I’ve not checked them out yet but am definitely intending to

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PondaBaba

Can you expand on this for those not familiar with this sort of stuff? Hearing the term ‘b-roll’ I’m thinking of photography by a second unit that does close ups of a stand-in (for the main) actors hand etc., which I’m assuming is a totally different context to the one in which it’s used here, right? Or is it the same?

Eta if it’s explained in those links, I wouldn’t know as I’ve not checked them out yet but am definitely intending to

It's not explained in those links I don't think? Will explain laterer when I has time

[gameguru]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's not explained in those links I don't think? Will explain laterer when I has time

This was the only thing mentioning an A/B cut in the Secret History article:

Star Wars was an A-B neg cut, which meant that they could actually lift and slug original negative and send it back to ILM whenever we were enhancing a live-action shot.

Not exactly very informative of what that actually means. If I could shoot in the dark here, I'm guessing it means that one roll is for regular content and the other for opticals and such? I'm terribly noobish on the finer arts of film processing, so please let me know if im wrong

[tylergfoster]

As far as the original versions go, I just assume that's not going to happen and whatever current revision is available is what we'll get. I just want a decent set of official discs with a comprehensive set of bonus features, and at least the 3-disc UHD sets/2-disc BD sets seem to be pretty decent on the extras front even if there are no iterations with everything.