Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I definitely agree that discs are higher quality. But the difference with, say, Blu-ray and VUDU HDX, is not that big.

We get fully into the subjective with words like "small" and "big." Big to me might be tiny to you and vice versa. For some, just perceiving a difference at all is enough to please or displease.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I definitely agree that discs are higher quality. But the difference with, say, Blu-ray and VUDU HDX, is not that big.

Originally Posted by Vilya

We get fully into the subjective with words like "small" and "big." Big to me might be tiny to you and vice versa. For some, just perceiving a difference at all is enough to please or displease.

Who really cares, only the Die Hard Disc Lovers. Unless you do Screen Shots, most can't see any difference. The Quality of Streaming gets better with each year. Most people just want to watch their Movies or TV Shows in a Quality that looks good to them. HT doesn't matter to them unless it works into their HT advantage.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Who really cares, only the Die Hard Disc Lovers. Unless you do Screen Shots, most can't see any difference. The Quality of Streaming gets better with each year. Most people just want to watch their Movies or TV Shows in a Quality that looks good to them. HT doesn't matter to them unless it works into their HT advantage.

The difference most certainly exists, obvious in motion as well as in still shots. Disc audio is better as well, both in terms of higher bitrate and the fact that it is lossless. The importance of these differences is not for you to decide for anyone but your challenged self. People who want the best do not settle as readily as you do for the mere convenience and economy of SVOD.

Streaming has not improved since 2015. Streaming bitrates are unchanged and no major updates in streaming encodes have occurred. Some, such as Apple 4K TV, have added their own lower bitrate and lossy version of Atmos audio, but that's it. You are factually wrong AS USUAL. The facts do not change no matter how often you deny them.

The objective data is a verifiable fact. SVOD and Vudu 4K streams have been stuck at 15-16 Mbps since 2015. Nothing has improved in terms of streaming picture quality. Even the last article that you yourself cited just recently stated that Netflix's last encoding efforts date back to 2015.

From Vudu's own website and from one of their own engineers:

"HDX max bitrate is 9Mbps, UHD max rate is 15Mbps. They are adaptive so they will work with lower bandwidth at reduced resolution/quality." quote from Jake, Vudu Engineer 12-18-2015.

"UHD is H.265. The max/peak bitrates are still generally the same, though depending on the content the average could be lower than that." Quote from Jake, Vudu Engineer Jan. 05, 2018

https://forum.vudu.com/forum/vudu/ge...aximum-bitrate

Your persistent lying and/or incurable ignorance is why you are subjected to the ridicule that you so richly deserve. Nail reunited with hammer...again.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Streaming has not improved since 2015. Streaming bitrates are unchanged and no major updates in streaming encodes have occurred. Some, such as Apple 4K TV, have added their own lower bitrate and lossy version of Atmos audio, but that's it. You are factually wrong AS USUAL. The facts do not change no matter how often you deny them.

The objective data is a verifiable fact. SVOD and Vudu 4K streams have been stuck at 15-16 Mbps since 2015. Nothing has improved in terms of streaming picture quality. Even the last article that you yourself cited just recently stated that Netflix's last encoding efforts date back to 2015.

Who is really in Denial, Disc sales keep going down and no amount of Stats will change that fact. The Streaming improvements do go back years, but they do keep improving. Amazon and Netflix are clear leaders and they are not letting up on improving their Service. Amazon just spent 13 Million at Sundance Film Festival for a high-profile Movie. So Streaming Providers are not just sitting around. We'll have to see if part of their Distribution will be on Disc.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/26/...ng-late-night/

You and Wendell like to lower yourselves to a lot of name calling, instead of showing respect. All that shows is that you are backed into a corner, and desperate.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Who is really in Denial, Disc sales keep going down and no amount of Stats will change that fact. The Streaming improvements do go back years, but they do keep improving. Amazon and Netflix are clear leaders and they are not letting up on improving their Service. Amazon just spent 13 Million at Sundance Film Festival for a high-profile Movie. So Streaming Providers are not just sitting around. We'll have to see if part of their Distribution will be on Disc.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/26/...ng-late-night/

You and Wendell like to lower yourselves to a lot of name calling, instead of showing respect. All that shows is that you are backed into a corner, and desperate.

I have never denied that disc sales are declining. I am the one who shares the actual sales data in this thread repeatedly and have done so for a very long time. A person who relies upon facts and evidence and posts it himself, and provides citations to support it, is not in denial. I have always sought the truth, and unlike you, I actively seek it out. I follow the evidence wherever it leads. If I wanted to live in a self-induced fantasy land, like you do, I would have no need for real data; I'd just make everything up like you do. Proving something requires effort; fantasies are effortless.

I know you can not grasp this concept, but a decline in sales is not the same thing as a collapse. I have never said that discs would dominate the home video market; I simply predict that they will be a niche market for those who want the best quality and real ownership of what they purchase. Disc still releases more content in a week than Netflix does in a month. 62% of all purchases are on disc.

Overall disc sales are down 12.9% for the year ending 2018, blu-ray is down just 1.2%, 4K disc is up 83% globally and up 70% domestically. 12,530 titles were released on disc in 2018, 2,711 on blu-ray, and these numbers have been essentially unchanged to slightly up since 2015. More titles come to disc per year, by far, than come to SVOD. These are all facts reported by bruceames in the Home Video Sales thread derived from Digital Entertainment Group and Home Media Magazine. Actual verifiable facts, not the fiction from your addled and fevered brain.

You are not even bright enough to realize that you contradict yourself in this idiotic sentence that I underlined. You have no evidence to show that streaming has improved since 2015 and I, and others, have repeatedly shown you numerous articles and current up to the moment streaming data information screenshots that prove they have not changed.

Netflix and Amazon purchasing content has ZERO to do with the unchanged quality of their streams. The streaming quality of their content has not changed. The bitrates and the codecs staying the same prove this simple fact; facts that are forever beyond your feeble grasp. Amazon buying rights to a single film in no way proves anything regarding their streaming quality; that should be obvious, and it is, to everyone but you.

Wendell has nothing to do with my posts. It is both absurd and unfair of you to accuse and to attack him in your reply to my comments. Wendell gave you Netflix for free as a gift and you criticize him in your reply to me; very classy, ingrate.

Respect is earned and trolls do not receive respect. You insist upon repeating your false beliefs and your meaningless, myopic anecdotes and you attempt to pass them off as actual facts. You falsify news stories that you do not even bother to link to by adding content that they do not contain. Your rare citations rarely support any of your positions due to your lack of reading comprehension or due to your being too lazy to actually read them at all or both. You deny all evidence from all sources from all members if it is not to your liking. You are the very poster child for not just denial, but delusion. You are a trapped in your own two-bit circus.

Almost everyone here has proven you wrong multiple times over and across many, many topics, but you are just too thick to learn from anyone. It is your insistence on repeating your oft disproved fallacies that causes you to be treated as you are. As for being desperate and cornered, you are the one who ALWAYS plays the poor little pitiful mistreated victim whenever he can not defend the nonsense he posts.

If you take exception to this post, take it up with me, its author, and leave Wendell out of it.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I feel I don’t need to say anymore on this particular topic. Thank you.

Every time I reply to algae; I add a full year to that goal.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Every time I reply to algae; I add a full year to that goal.

That’s human nature for you.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Who really cares, only the Die Hard Disc Lovers. Unless you do Screen Shots, most can't see any difference. The Quality of Streaming gets better with each year. Most people just want to watch their Movies or TV Shows in a Quality that looks good to them. HT doesn't matter to them unless it works into their HT advantage.

Alchav, this is not a masses forum though. It’s a very popular forum for enthusiasts. We should see things from that viewpoint not the masses viewpoint. The masses still watch SD on their 1080p sets and leave the picture settings on scorch. No wonder they are happy with dancing pixels and so much banding.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I definitely agree that discs are higher quality. But the difference with, say, Blu-ray and VUDU HDX, is not that big.

Not big if you do not care about mosquito noise, banding, macro blocking, etc. in the video, not big if you do not care about lossless audio, especially Dolby Atmos or DTS:X and not big if you don’t care about ½ V or H resolution in 3D content.

If you do care about having the best of all the above then disc is the only way to go, for now and the foreseeable future. IF technology comes up with a different permanent data device for movie distribution that has more capacity, reasonably priced and covered by the First Sale Doctrine then I will be one of the first in line to procure one. Till then.......

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Not big if you do not care about mosquito noise, banding, macro blocking, etc. in the video, not big if you do not care about lossless audio, especially Dolby Atmos or DTS:X and not big if you don’t care about ½ V or H resolution in 3D content.

If you do care about having the best of all the above then disc is the only way to go, for now and the foreseeable future. IF technology comes up with a different permanent data device for movie distribution that has more capacity, reasonably priced and covered by the First Sale Doctrine then I will be one of the first in line to procure one. Till then.......

This^

[Wendell R. Breland]

Digital Movie Service UltraViolet Shutting Down July 31

The Digital Entertainment Content Ecosystem (DECE) will officially shut down the UltraViolet cloud-based digital rights locker service July 31, according to a report from Variety.

Another one bites the the big wienie.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Digital Movie Service UltraViolet Shutting Down July 31




Another one bites the the big wienie.

Meaning several big countries who redeemed are up the creek without a paddle. Welcome to the world of Digital.
Thank goodness for disc.

[flyry]

This was expected as most studios stopped granting UV rights on new titles what seems like a year ago.

I loved the sharing but welcome MGM paramount and Lionsgate and hopefully smaller studios like wellgo finally joining movies anywhere

[partridge]

There is no digital market that is as safe or secure as buying a disc. There's convenience in a digital copy, but only until something like this happens and it's gone.

What's really interesting is that there is nothing (unless I missed it) about any of the studios offering an apology or some kind of token compensation for the decision to close this service.

Basically, it's being closed and that's that.


Changing the subject; is there a reason why studios haven't moved on from disc onto some kind of proprietary memory card? I know players will need to support discs for some time to come, but you'd think the days of the disc itself were numbered given how much data you can fit on a card? Maybe they think piracy would be too easy? But there would be little loading time, if any, and no moving parts either, so the players would be silent.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by partridge

There is no digital market that is as safe or secure as buying a disc. There's convenience in a digital copy, but only until something like this happens and it's gone.

What's really interesting is that there is nothing (unless I missed it) about any of the studios offering an apology or some kind of token compensation for the decision to close this service.

Basically, it's being closed and that's that.


Changing the subject; is there a reason why studios haven't moved on from disc onto some kind of proprietary memory card? I know players will need to support discs for some time to come, but you'd think the days of the disc itself were numbered given how much data you can fit on a card? Maybe they think piracy would be too easy? But there would be little loading time, if any, and no moving parts either, so the players would be silent.

Absolutely nothing stopping MA in the U.S ditching their service as well. I strongly believe that digital HD hasn’t got much of a shelf life.

This should be a lesson to everyone.

[homevideogeek]

Originally Posted by partridge

Changing the subject; is there a reason why studios haven't moved on from disc onto some kind of proprietary memory card? I know players will need to support discs for some time to come, but you'd think the days of the disc itself were numbered given how much data you can fit on a card? Maybe they think piracy would be too easy? But there would be little loading time, if any, and no moving parts either, so the players would be silent.

I've had a number of SD cards fail or fall apart in the last few years, but I've never had a Blu-ray fail on me yet. I've barely even gotten scratches on any of them thanks to the coating they put on them that wasn't present on DVDs.

I think changing to a whole different style of physical medium would be a bad idea because you'd have a whole different ecosystem of players to keep around as the years progress. I like that I can play CDs, DVDs, Blu-rays and 4K UHD discs all in my UHD Blu-ray player. I still have to keep a VCR and LaserDisc player around for the small number of titles I have in those formats, which is a pain.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by partridge

What's really interesting is that there is nothing (unless I missed it) about any of the studios offering an apology or some kind of token compensation for the decision to close this service.

Basically, it's being closed and that's that.

They are liable for nothing. All of this is covered in their TOS which basically states they can close down and discontinue service at any time and without notice. They (UV) are at least giving ample notice. Sony only gave about 30 days notice for Sony’s Picture Store (today is the last day of operation).

Changing the subject; is there a reason why studios haven't moved on from disc onto some kind of proprietary memory card?

Yes, cost. Stamped disc are really cheap to produce and large quantities can be produced in a short period of time.

[avs commenter]

Just checked....my entire digital library is still there. I'll keep everyone posted.

[dublinbluray108]

I would be happy if all of my digital library switched over to Google Play Movies/Youtube Movies when UV closes.

I just checked the FAQ page on the myuv site for UV. It is under maintenance for now.

Although; it is not allowing me to hyperlink to the other websites. Thanks UV.

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

I would be happy if all of my digital library switched over to Google Play Movies/Youtube Movies when UV closes.

I just checked the FAQ page on the myuv site for UV. It is under maintenance for now.

Although; it is not allowing me to hyperlink to the other websites. Thanks UV.

it should. at least most of it