Starship Troopers 4K UHD (1997) (20th Anniversary Edition)

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by TbeRw01

well the DV metadatas are inaccurate. This is not how the average DV plot should looks like. To me, it looks like the studios went cheap and decided to take shortcuts and set a static L1/L2 instead of grading DV shot by shot properly.

When they grade DV properly, they run the Dolby algorithm to generate L1 metadata which measure and maps all the pixels of the actual HDR grade. It creates a min_pq, max_pq and avg_pq for EACH SHOT. L1 should never lie to the TV like it does in this BD. The brightness adaptation to different displays is done in the L2 trim passes, not L1 which is what the graph plot is.

Then they do the time-consuming part of the DV creation: the L2 trim passes where they have to go shot by shot again and adjust everything for different brightness outputs (usually 100/600/1000nits trims). This is the metadata your TV use to adapt the content to its internal capabilities.

In other words, using static L1/L2 metadata makes no sense to me and the only reason I see is to save time a money.

So the ultimate question. Would you recommend the new disc? Is there anything that stands out in the new disc?

Based on your scientific replies I am looking at passing.

Despite all these, I still believe in Dolby Vision. I bet most of the folks here won't buy a TV without DV or maybe the only reason to buy would be to get around the compression issues seen with SC discs.

[TbeRw01]

Originally Posted by lgans316

As we are hot on this topic:

https://www.hdnumerique.com/dossiers...y-sonic-2.html

On the UB820, think it was showing 2100 nits MaxCLL and MaxFALL 281 nits

However, the site says this:

In HDR10, the brightness level of the brightest pixel in the entire stream (MaxCLL) is 298 nits. An average value of brightness peaks was measured at 534 nits. Similarly, on the entire feature film, 97.73% of the shots are composed of highlights (with a median of 169 nits) . Regarding HEVC video compression, the average bitrate was measured at 41781 kbps and 45645 kbps (with Dolby Vision overlay).

and yours https://drive.google.com/file/d/13D2...ew?usp=sharing

So which one is correct?

The DV plot graph is untouched DV metadata from the disc. L6 maxCLL/fall metadata is the static value set in the RPU DV metadata itself(not used in DV playback) and the actual max_pq of the L1 metadata is 448nits. So the encoded HDR10 maxcll and L6 maxcll set in the rpu are both incorrect which is often the case with HDR encodes which is why static maxcll/fall are often meaningless and a complete pixel measurements is better (like DV or madvr does).

[TbeRw01]

Originally Posted by lgans316

So the ultimate question. Would you recommend the new disc? Is there anything that stands out in the new disc?

Based on your scientific replies I am looking at passing.

Despite all these, I still believe in Dolby Vision. I bet most of the folks here won't buy a TV without DV or maybe the only reason to buy would be to get around the compression issues seen with SC discs.

Well, I don't know but even though the DV is static 650nits, as you noted on itunes, it will probably look less blown out than the 4000nits HDR10 base layer.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Caps are up:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=17754&d2=17753&c=6539

Looks identical to me concerning brightness, but I suppose we can't tell from SDR caps, can we? Encode appears to look slightly better, though. But I'm looking at it from my cell phone, people!

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by TbeRw01

Well, I don't know but even though the DV is static 650nits, as you noted on itunes, it will probably look less blown out than the 4000nits HDR10 base layer.

Ok thanks. So both iTunes DV stream and the new disc has exactly the same static metadata.

As of now, I will pass.

Thanks for your posts and I had bookmarked your links for future reference.

Maybe when I have the time and mood, I will run your DV utility to analyse my MKVs.

[TbeRw01]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Ok thanks. So both iTunes DV stream and the new disc has exactly the same static metadata.

As of now, I will pass.

Thanks for your posts and I had bookmarked your links for future reference.

Maybe when I have the time and mood, I will run your DV utility to analyse my MKVs.

I literally plot every movies/TV show that comes out so I update the link daily
And my script should be easy to use for you since you already know python. There are tutorials for everything the script can do.

[TbeRw01]

Originally Posted by Rollo Tomassi

Caps are up:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=17754&d2=17753&c=6539

Looks identical to me concerning brightness, but I suppose we can't tell from SDR caps, can we? Encode appears to look slightly better, though. But I'm looking at it from my cell phone, people!

yes, you can tell the brightness difference from SDR caps. madVR measure the pixels and tone map accordingly.

Just looks at this new Looper FEL DV french BD vs the old HDR10 BD:
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/29317
and
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/29327

[Rollo Tomassi]

Originally Posted by TbeRw01

yes, you can tell the brightness difference from SDR caps. madVR measure the pixels and tone map accordingly.

Just looks at this new Looper FEL DV french BD vs the old HDR10 BD:
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/29317
and
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/29327

Yes, completely forgot about Loopers. So I guess, the "light cannon" is still firing....

[Surge92]

Originally Posted by Rollo Tomassi

Caps are up:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=17754&d2=17753&c=6539

Looks identical to me concerning brightness, but I suppose we can't tell from SDR caps, can we? Encode appears to look slightly better, though. But I'm looking at it from my cell phone, people!

The colors are a tad bit punchier on the new one also.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by TbeRw01

I literally plot every movies/TV show that comes out so I update the link daily
And my script should be easy to use for you since you already know python. There are tutorials for everything the script can do.

Great. I will install the required Py dependencies and give your utility a go.

I do capture and update the streaming bit rates here (only open in PC):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I rip every disc I receive to full fat MKV even before I play the disc in my player as long as the admin @ MKV forums take care of updating AACS 2.0 hashed keys.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by lgans316

So the ultimate question. Would you recommend the new disc? Is there anything that stands out in the new disc?

Based on your scientific replies I am looking at passing.

Despite all these, I still believe in Dolby Vision. I bet most of the folks here won't buy a TV without DV or maybe the only reason to buy would be to get around the compression issues seen with SC discs.

I've got to be honest: when it comes to a movie having a static 650 nits peak/100 nits average applied to it then I can't think of a betterer candidate than Starship Troopers which IMO is the epitome of the Sony Light Cannon™️ approach to HDR grading. That doesn't discount the apparent laziness with which the DV metadata has been generated (and proves that the bitrate of Sony's 2 Mb/s Dobly layers have no bearing on what's contained therein), but as with DV FEL filling in the gaps of a poorly compressed base layer (which it wasn't designed/intended to do) then sometimes dumb ****ing luck actually works in DV's favour, so I'll happily watch Troopers with the much gentler tone mapping!

[TbeRw01]

Originally Posted by lgans316

I do capture and update the streaming bit rates here (only open in PC):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
I rip every disc I receive to full fat MKV even before I play the disc in my player as long as the admin @ MKV forums take care of updating AACS 2.0 hashed keys.

that's a great list. thank you

[sfmarine]

I ran the original Sony disc in my OPPO and threw the new DV disc into my Pioneer and switched back and forth between the two discs, but it was immediately clear that the DV is a really nice uptick. Better colors and brightness and well worth the upgrade.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've got to be honest: when it comes to a movie having a static 650 nits peak/100 nits average applied to it then I can't think of a betterer candidate than Starship Troopers which IMO is the epitome of the Sony Light Cannon™️ approach to HDR grading. ... so I'll happily watch Troopers with the much gentler tone mapping!

Why do you expect that lower (wrong) meta data values will resolve more highlight detail? Which was your issue with this disc HDR wise IIRC. I'd expect the opposite if I feed too low values, i.e. it clipping too soon. Unless maybe such basically false flags result in the DV doing something that's neither here nor there. But you wouldn't want that would you?

Just trying to understand the logic.

EDIT: Other than me trying to make sense out of everything, I'm also looking forward to hear what you'll have to say about the practical results.

[andreasy969]

I wanted to post the following as a joke earlier today, but didn't, but the joke (to a certain degree!) got caught up by reality now. (I had some time to kill and took those when I took a look at my old Starship Troopers disc)

[Show spoiler]HDR10 | DV

[Show spoiler](full disclosure: HDR10 200 nits clipped | HDR10 350 nits BT.2390)

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[lgans316]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I wanted to post the following as a joke earlier today, but didn't, but the joke (to a certain degree!) got caught up by reality now. (I had some time to kill and took those when I took a look at my old Starship Troopers disc)

The differences doesn't look this drastic on my TVs but I did notice the colours looking a tad better and highlights a tad less blown out on the DV stream.

[KMFDMvsEnya]

Does the DV layer include 12bits of amazah colours?
Or is it just static metadata that happens to tame the Sony Light Cannon Beast?

Perhaps the 'improved colors' stems from decreasing the excessively elevated APL which frankly makes the image look rather washed out to my eyes.

It seems as though 12bit DV layers can cause discolorations macroblocking in the base HDR10 layer.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by lgans316

The differences doesn't look this drastic on my TVs but I did notice the colours looking a tad better and highlights a tad less blown out on the DV stream.

Yes, I sure hope the difference isn't that drastic. But moral of the story is that DV is not to be trusted and we're all tone mapping the f out of Sony's Starship Troopers.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya

Does the DV layer include 12bits of amazah colours?
Or is it just static metadata that happens to tame the Sony Light Cannon Beast?

Going by TbeRw01it's "dynamic" static meta data (as in same values throughout the whole movie - maybe TbeRw01 can also say if it's per frame or scene whatsoever) when it actually should've been dynamic meta data.

Practically it's basically HDR10 with (false) static meta data.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Yes, I sure hope the difference isn't that drastic. But moral of the story is that DV is not to be trusted and we're all tone mapping the f out of Sony's Starship Troopers.

Fair point but once again, I would still go by how it looks on the display equipment.

In this instance (probably there are more), as you aware, it is just sheer laziness by Sony, so can't blame Dolby.