Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

Apple has their own press events so they would not announce at CES. They typically refresh the ATV every couple years....
And Amazon just released a new firestick in Oct '18

The point was there was nothing new on the streaming front and there was on the UHD Blu-ray front. IFA2018 did not have any major announcements.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

MicroSD cards as movie distribution platform in the near future???

Been there, done that.

There was a service about 10(?) years ago where you purchased or brought your own memory, then downloaded your purchased movie at a kiosk. It went over like a lead balloon.

There two major problems with movies on flash memory, 1 - production cost, the physical memory production cost will always be a lot more than a stamped disc. Then there is the data transfer time, it will take some time to transfer even a 10GB movie. 2 - the binary data is stored using by an electric charge on the gates of the FET's. At some point the charge on that gate will dissipate and there will be no more data.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Think about developing film from your camera. Anyone doing that anymore?

Yes, I still develop black & white films - not in the same quantity I used to do years ago admittedly, but there's still a demand for analogue photography from both keen amateurs and professionals. Digital photography is quick and convenient for sure, but you still can't beat having a physical negative in your hands which you can print or scan.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

None of my movies ever need to be converted. Additionally I don't think the vast majority of the movies and TV shows in my collection can ever look or sound much better than the Blu-ray versions I already have. Therefore I would never even want a new version.

It depends how it the footage was acquired when the movie was made. There could possibly be a higher resolution version out there.

For example, didn't they shoot Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 in 8K?

If highest resolution/quality is your goal then having the 1080p version of a movie kind of leaves you behind in that.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Remember the postings folks made here and elsewhere about how there were only 2 new UHD Blu-ray players that were announced at CES 2019? Did some checking and there were exactly zero, none, nada, zilch new streaming boxes from Amazon, Apple, Google, NVIDIA Shield and Roku announced for 2019.

Sad to see the Amazon Fire TV 4K pendant and the Google Chromecast Audio discontinued. I have 2 of the CCA devices and tried to buy a third one but they sold out quickly.

At least for Apple TV I think the 6th generation box will be shown at the same time they unveil their rumored streaming service. If you listen to rumors that will be at the March event or the June event. Of course, I think the September/October time frame seems more likely but I know jack squat about it and that is just mere speculation on my part.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

The point was there was nothing new on the streaming front and there was on the UHD Blu-ray front. IFA2018 did not have any major announcements.

Valid point for sure.

However, some manufacturers do not announce products beforehand. (or as far in advance as others)

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Been there, done that.

There was a service about 10(?) years ago where you purchased or brought your own memory, then downloaded your purchased movie at a kiosk. It went over like a lead balloon.

Yes, I seemed to remember hearing something like that but that also sounded real inconvenient too so I can see what that didn't get any traction.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

There two major problems with movies on flash memory, 1 - production cost, the physical memory production cost will always be a lot more than a stamped disc. Then there is the data transfer time, it will take some time to transfer even a 10GB movie. 2 - the binary data is stored using by an electric charge on the gates of the FET's. At some point the charge on that gate will dissipate and there will be no more data.

Agreed.

Of course we're both looking at this in regards to current memory technologies. I used micro SD cards as an example and maybe I should have said something "like" micros SD cards. I have no clue what that it is though.

I think a parallel processing solves the time problem. I'm guessing a disc stamping machine is very very expensive and thus it is more of a serial operations with just a few stampers going. If I could take more time on each one but copy 10 times as many then maybe the math works out.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by CV19

Yes, I still develop black & white films - not in the same quantity I used to do years ago admittedly, but there's still a demand for analogue photography from both keen amateurs and professionals. Digital photography is quick and convenient for sure, but you still can't beat having a physical negative in your hands which you can print or scan.

I developed and printed B&W film when I was kid.

But I feel that is the edge of edge cases in 2019.

I mean I'm sure there are people who collect antique typewriters but that doesn't mean we still need or have typewriters being sold today. Do we? LOL

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

At least for Apple TV I think the 6th generation box will be shown at the same time they unveil their rumored streaming service. If you listen to rumors that will be at the March event or the June event. Of course, I think the September/October time frame seems more likely but I know jack squat about it and that is just mere speculation on my part.

I don't know what Apple could even offer in an upgrade that would make it a justifiable reason to upgrade right now. Maybe they wait until HDMI 2.1 becomes available.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

My primary goal is having a copy of the movie that can never be taken away and will last an extremely long time. If Blu-ray (or even DVD) is the best quality version available on disc then I'm comfortable with that. If a better disc version is released then I'll buy it.

This. Exactly this.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

I developed and printed B&W film when I was kid.

But I feel that is the edge of edge cases in 2019.

I mean I'm sure there are people who collect antique typewriters but that doesn't mean we still need or have typewriters being sold today. Do we? LOL

I'm not an expert on digital photography, but I've heard discussions which indicate a digital B&W print doesn't match the quality of a print from a well developed negative. However I cannot make any arguments about that point as I've never personally made any comparisons between the two.

As for your typewriter analogy, well there are collectors/photographers who collect vintage cameras too, but they will still use modern digital technology just the same. Darkroom work is generally for those who enjoy that side of photography, which I happen to do. Also with film you won't have the worry of losing your images due to a corrupt memory card or crashing hard drive. I can pull out a 40 year old negative and still make a print from it.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

I don't know what Apple could even offer in an upgrade that would make it a justifiable reason to upgrade right now. Maybe they wait until HDMI 2.1 becomes available.

There's always something. We shall see.

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

The same could easily be said for Ultra HD Blu-ray. Why should any manufacturers be promoting new players when there is no reason to upgrade?

Because UHD players are adding features and updates that most non A/V enthusiast don't care about.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Of course we're both looking at this in regards to current memory technologies.

Does not matter, don’t know if you are a tech person, if so you can get an idea about the memory process from the video

[Show spoiler]

Making Memory Chips – Process Steps - YouTube

I think a parallel processing solves the time problem.

Memory has a defined read and write times and vary quite a bit. Fast write times runs the price up quickly. Creating multiple copies at the same time is nothing new, movies on video cassettes started this way, done in real time copying. Later they were made using special magnetic tapes that made copies using contact with them using high pressure and heat.

I'm guessing a disc stamping machine is very very expensive and thus it is more of a serial operations with just a few stampers going.

The cost of producing a disc is very cheap, that is why it has not been replaced with other methods of physical distribution.

[Show spoiler]

CD DVD Replication Blu-Ray Manufacturing - YouTube

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

My primary goal is having a copy of the movie that can never be taken away and will last an extremely long time. If Blu-ray (or even DVD) is the best quality version available on disc then I'm comfortable with that. If a better disc version is released then I'll buy it.

That was my thinking for a very long time and that is certainly a valid and reasonable line of thought.

I guess as time goes by I'm less interested in owning physical things and want more convenience and access to things instead. Lines become less straight, less black & white, and become more curvy and grey area.

I got rid of all my music CDs a long time ago. Why? Because I didn't need them any more. A whole box of CDs (and more) was on my phone.

Now with Apple Music I don't see any reason to buy new music. Yes, I'm well aware that if I cancel my subscription then I don't have access to all the music. However, I'm not heavily invested in a music library either.

I'm not sure Apple can pull off an Apple Movies subscription service but then again that is what everyone said about Apple Music in the past. Certainly something interesting to think about/discuss.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Does not matter, don’t know if you are a tech person, if so you can get an idea about the memory process from the video

[Show spoiler]Making Memory Chips – Process Steps - YouTube

Memory has a defined read and write times and vary quite a bit. Fast write times runs the price up quickly. Creating multiple copies at the same time is nothing new, movies on video cassettes started this way, done in real time copying. Later they were made using special magnetic tapes that made copies using contact with them using high pressure and heat.

The cost of producing a disc is very cheap, that is why it has not been replaced with other methods of physical distribution.

[Show spoiler]CD DVD Replication Blu-Ray Manufacturing - YouTube

Great videos. I enjoyed them. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, I've worked in IT for 25 years or so and I'm a Network Engineer.

You make a strong case for discs not going away but I know my current computers do not have a disc drive in them. I also know that I personally am not looking to buy discs anymore and I don't consider myself to be an early adopter. The bleeding edge is too expensive and frustrating. LOL

Unfortunately, the masses determine the direction we go. Everyone is really starting to buy into the "Cloud" (aka someone else's data center) now and that sort of puts them on the path to digital movies as opposed to physical. The "All your movies in the Cloud available from wherever you are" marketing line.

Likely you are right about memory chips never replacing discs but who knows what storage options are around the corner?

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

You make a strong case for discs not going away but I know my current computers do not have a disc drive in them. I also know that I personally am not looking to buy discs anymore and I don't consider myself to be an early adopter. The bleeding edge is too expensive and frustrating. LOL

Unfortunately, the masses determine the direction we go. Everyone is really starting to buy into the "Cloud" (aka someone else's data center) now and that sort of puts them on the path to digital movies as opposed to physical. The "All your movies in the Cloud available from wherever you are" marketing line.

You're sending mixed signals here. You think it's unfortunate that people are buying digital movies instead of physical even though you are doing that yourself. Why are you supporting something that is unfortunate?

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

You're sending mixed signals here. You think it's unfortunate that people are buying digital movies instead of physical even though you are doing that yourself. Why are you supporting something that is unfortunate?

Same reason I now reluctantly shop at Walmart after boycotting them for years.

Just because I don't want (or prefer) for something to happen doesn't mean it won't. I was anti-everything to the cloud too but the masses have spoken so I can get on board or hold out and suffer without the new toys.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

That was my thinking for a very long time and that is certainly a valid and reasonable line of thought.

I guess as time goes by I'm less interested in owning physical things and want more convenience and access to things instead. Lines become less straight, less black & white, and become more curvy and grey area.

I got rid of all my music CDs a long time ago. Why? Because I didn't need them any more. A whole box of CDs (and more) was on my phone.

Now with Apple Music I don't see any reason to buy new music. Yes, I'm well aware that if I cancel my subscription then I don't have access to all the music. However, I'm not heavily invested in a music library either.

I'm not sure Apple can pull off an Apple Movies subscription service but then again that is what everyone said about Apple Music in the past. Certainly something interesting to think about/discuss.

It wont be a movie service. It will be mostly tv with the odd film.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Same reason I now reluctantly shop at Walmart after boycotting them for years.

Just because I don't want (or prefer) for something to happen doesn't mean it won't. I was anti-everything to the cloud too but the masses have spoken so I can get on board or hold out and suffer without the new toys.

If everyone said that, we would have lost WW2. Oh we have suffered heavy defeats, let’s go AWOL and leave it to everyone else.