Zombie Holocaust - June 28, 2011

[Mykol Gantt]

Yeah despite people going out of their way to knock it ecause it's MB, the Blu is a definite improvement upon the DVD. And being a cheap production I'd be surprised if it was possible for it to look better than this.

[Kentai]

Oh, please. Media Blasters has a crappy reputation because they release crappy discs. They do occasionally release a decent disc - that Queen's Blade set is very nice on BD, and I've heard nothing but good things about their Shaw Bros. titles in HD - but when they have to make the transfers themselves it's generally awful. Versus is embarrassing. Ichi the Killer is so bad even the CEO of the company said it sucks. And this month's Urotsukidoji: Legend of the Overfiend Blu is so pitiful that it might be a new low, even for them. (8 f***ing minutes is sourced from a master made 22 years ago and the rest is from a chewed up theatrical print. I'm NOT exaggerating.)

As far as Zombie Holocaust goes, grain does not look like THIS, or THAT. If this transfer were of an American catalog title, people would be up in arms about it. Hell, THIS SCENE looks worse than plenty of DVDs I own. Zombie Holocaust looks like blurry shite with analog noise and "restoration" processing sprinkled on top, and I can't believe anyone would defend it after actually watching it.

The only reason Zombie Holocaust looks 'better' on Blu-ray is because the DVD from 2002 was a piece of crap to start with... but even then, compare the DVD to the Blu-ray, and the DVD still looks less processed! Check out those clamps - they've practically disappeared!

I'm getting a little sick of hearing about how "Low budget films will never look good in HD". Have you actually seen transfers like I Spit On Your Grave? The Toolbox Murders? The Crazies? Heck, even Beyond the Darkness looks better than ZH, and that was shot on Super 16 AND transferred by the same lab! There's no excuse for this transfer. None. The above titles look fantastic in HD because the restoration was done properly, not because the film elements were anything particularly good.

Alien 2: On Earth remains the only Italian horror film I'm convinced has made proper use of the materials. That flick didn't even have a budget for a monster, and it's a monster movie! If you think Zombie Holocaust - which has money for numerous gore scenes, multiple extras, all sorts of "things that cost money" that Alien 2 didn't - somehow pulled that off just by skimping on film stock, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

I don't know what the heck is going on at LVR and why some of their transfers are substantially better than others - one theory I've heard is that they're not keeping their Cintel DSX properly maintained, so the "image" produced by the film is blurry while the noise on top being generated is still 'HD'. If that's the case, I don't have a clue why Beyond the Darkness looks fine - maybe ZH is an older transfer and they've tweaked their hardware since? Who knows? Either way I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're responsible for the crappy transfers of Tenebrae (Arrow Video), Stendhal Syndrome, Django and City of the Living Dead.

[DarknessBDJM]

Kentai,

There's nothing wrong with Blue Underground's City of the Living Dead, I can't speak for Arrow's version (I've only seen screencaps), but the supposed problems that exist on the disk are not present on mine and I pre-ordered the thing, so I didn't receive a potential revision.

I know that Alien 2 On Earth is a fine disk, but seeing it constantly promoted by you, especially in relation to Media Blasters blu-ray disks (even if they have problems), and with the MB vs. Midnight Legacy feud, it makes it seem like a publicity stunt (even though it may not be and may just be a point of reference).

Most Italian horror releases have their problems for sure; but aside from that, not all of them can be properly compared due to differing elements used in the scans/transfers, different film stock (some potentially using high speed stock, which made even Aliens look much weaker than it's predecessor), different cameras, and cinematographers. Alien 2: On Earth relied on how it was shot to make it (or at least an attempt to make it) effective, while Zombie Holocaust only needed gore to be effective (and let's be honest here the makeup effects were bad, let's not call this a decent budget; and it's not like Alien 2 was without gore). Alien 2 also had a cinematographer with nearly 40 years experience as a camera operator or cinematographer at that point with about 80 films on his resume at the time of shooting Alien 2. While it's clear Alien 2 had more care put into its' blu-ray video quality, I have little doubt it would look much better given equal treatment.

Now as to The Toolbox Murders, I Spit on Your Grave, and The Crazies, they all were very low budget with a low budget look, but all were also shot on 35mm with spherical lenses, while most Italian releases using 35mm stock used lower resolution 2 perforation stock. The Crazies and I Spit on Your Grave are also owned by their (American) directors, so you would have more likely gotten a better preservation of the film elements. Midnight Legacy themselves have mentioned how difficult it is finding proper elements in Italy while also needing to personally supervise a proper scan/transfer; while I'd believe it'd be easier to track proper elements down in America with American made films, while having easier access to better equipment and technicians.

I don't want to seem like I'm excusing weak quality control (especially on MB's Japanese film releases), but I don't feel that comparisons can be made so easily across the board.

[Kentai]

Unfortunately, Alien 2 is the only Italian horror film I'm aware of that used the actual original negative from start to finish, and the video quality is stunning because of it. I'm not being a shill here, I'm just pointing that out that, no, Spaghetti Splatter doesn't have to look like chewed up arse. It can be done better, but nobody seems to be willing to put the time and money to actually do it. Now, if you can name another vintage Italian horror film on BD that looks remotely as good as Alien 2, hey, I'm all ears...

Both Alien 2 and Zombie Holocaust were 1.85:1 films, both presumably shot on spherical 35mm, and had DPs with over a decade's worth of experience, so I think they're about as far a comparison as we're likely to get. I don't expect that Zombie Holocaust will ever look like The Sound of Music - that wasn't my point, really. And 2-perf "Techniscope" is indeed an issue, but only for scope films... and, ironically, COTLD. Nabbed me on that technicality there. (Can we all agree that The Stendhal Syndrome is needlessly noisy, at the very least? How about the Arrow BD of Tenebrae?)

Zombie Holocaust has heavy noise on darker areas of the screen, black crush, static grain, yellow highlights/pink flesh tones, scratch repair artifacts, and a number of other issues not present on the DVD. Even holding aside the blurry 'look' of the film and the horrifying noise it has on dark scenes, it looks much closer to over-processed video than 35mm film, and that's not something we can fault the source elements for. Zombie Holocaust is a pretty crappy Blu-ray when you get down to it, and the multitude of issues I take with the transfer have nothing to do with the way it was shot or stored. Is it better than the DVD? Yeah, I guess. Is it good? Not even close. If we have to pull out the DVD from 2002 and point out where some areas have been improved, you probably didn't try hard enough.

I don't needlessly hate on Media Blasters because it's fun - where's the joy in that? I wish they'd get their act together and produce great transfer all the time instead of just when they're lucky. I still hope they get Burial Grounds right - trust me, I'd much rather have a decent looking copy of that fun, silly flick than have yet another excuse to whine about how I've wasted $20 on a mediocre transfer. Unfortunately, the QC over there is a joke, and nowhere is it that more apparent than their long delayed "Overfiend" Blu-ray... you think Zombie Holocaust could have been better? Bah! This thing is a combination of a chewed-up theatrical print and the same @!&*ing analog source the Japanese VHS tapes were made from 22 years ago.

Hey Sirabella, here's an idea; when you have to replace 2 minute chunks of the film with VHS quality material, be a man about it and just cancel the Blu-ray.

[j2raymond]

So, you've seen the Urotsukidoji blu-ray?

[Kentai]

Yes, I have seen Urotsukidoji and ordered it the second I saw it was actually available. It's a film I've loved for years, and I held off on buying the Kitty DVD specifically because they made it clear an HD release was in the works.

Please, even if you like this film, don't waste your money; even when it's sourced from a 35mm print (and I mean an actual theatrical print) it looks mediocre, but whenever the print was too badly damaged (reel changes and certain entire set pieces) it switches back to analog video. Also, the whole thing is cropped to 16:9 despite having been framed for 4:3 from the start. The DVD only release is from analog video the whole way through, but at least it's in the right aspect ratio and isn't covered in additional layers of print damage.

At best, the Urotsukidoji BD looks like THIS (except covered in scratches). For about 8 minutes total, it looks like THAT.

[bigshot]

I can't believe how far this thread has strayed from the subject- this bluray. I preordered this blind based on reviews that compared it to FulcI's Zombie, and the repeated comments that this film was hilarious. Now I see discussion that the image quality is bad. How far from the truth can user reviews get!

The bluray looks fine. The print is clean and the transfer is fine and there is a nice filmic look to it. But the film itself is amateurishly shot with minimal lighting and dismal cinematography. The pace of the film drags with long stretches of badly dubbed dialogue between poor actors. The gore FX are strictly butcher shop and dummies and there isn't enough of it. The music is awful, and the only redeeming factor is a couple of nice naked girl scenes. Any humor one finds in this film is in their mind. The film itself is completely po faced.

The trailers on this disk are fun to have, and there's a certain perverse interest in having grindhouse fare like this well presented on bluray, but that's about it.

[ImportFanatic]

Originally Posted by DarknessBDJM

Kentai,

There's nothing wrong with Blue Underground's City of the Living Dead, I can't speak for Arrow's version (I've only seen screencaps), but the supposed problems that exist on the disk are not present on mine and I pre-ordered the thing, so I didn't receive a potential revision.

Or you just don't see it...

[Kentai]

I'm glad you think the disc looks great, bigshot. Now, could you explain why the clamps are disappearing, or why there's excessive noise only on certain areas of the screen, as per the screenshots I posted earlier in the thread? I could post more examples, if need be.

[bigshot]

Originally Posted by Kentai

I'm glad you think the disc looks great, bigshot. Now, could you explain why the clamps are disappearing, or why there's excessive noise only on certain areas of the screen, as per the screenshots I posted earlier in the thread? I could post more examples, if need be.

The hospital scene isn't the same frame. Your DVD capture is a couple of frames later. They all look like motion blur from slow shutter speeds necessitated by inadequate lighting. The lighting in this film sucks. There's a whole sequence on the island where the skies are totally blown out.

If you want mastering errors... Look at the green band on the nurse's neck in the DVD frame grab. Compression artifacting and bleeding of colors in stripes.

[Kentai]

They are most certainly the same frame, sir. I went out of my way to count the number of frames (after an IVTC on the interlaced DVD) after the cut, just to make sure the results matched because I couldn't believe that the Blu-ray had such blatantly worse DSR artifacts than the DVD.

Here's another example between the DVD and Blu-ray. The DVD isn't good, obviously, but you can see DVNR/DSR eroding the wall and even the painting on the BD that's nice and stable on the DVD. I also flatly refuse to believe that even poorly lit film has "grain" that looks like this; it simply looks like machine noise that's been partially smoothed away by scratch repair filters.

P.S. As for the "bad lighting" comment... eh, the lighting probably wasn't great to start, but compare the DVD and Blu-ray again. The DVD has slightly elevated blacks I know, but the BD has a MAJOR shadow detail crush going on. This is far from the only scene, either; the entire opening of the film is darker than it should be.

[A++]

Now all they need to do is get Cannibal Ferox out on BR and we'll be all set.

[charnier]

88 Films in the UK launched an indiego campaign yesterday to restore Zombi Holocaust from the camera negative - take up is pretty low so far and 88 Films is beginning to get cold feet. Here's further details:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/r...amera-negative

[davidthenikonuser]

Originally Posted by charnier

88 Films in the UK launched an indiego campaign yesterday to restore Zombi Holocaust from the camera negative - take up is pretty low so far and 88 Films is beginning to get cold feet. Here's further details:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/r...amera-negative

Cold feet already?? It just started yesterday. I'll have to wait a couple weeks before I can do it.

It's kind of a bad time to do it with the holidays coming up and all. They probably should have started it the first week in January.

[thecalm_7]

Why cant the UK edition of Zombie Holocaust be delivered to the US from amazon.uk?

[davidthenikonuser]

Originally Posted by thecalm_7

Why cant the UK edition of Zombie Holocaust be delivered to the US from amazon.uk?

Not sure. I have mine ordered from amazon us. Try them.

[Kriztoffer Swank]

I have 88's BD on preorder from Amazon UK so not sure what you mean. Haven't received a cancelation or anything.

If it ends up we can't order from them, there's always 88's store which ships worldwide.

Can't wait for this new master which will likely look pretty awesome.

[thecalm_7]

I haven't tried ordering it but here's an image
Sorry won't load from my mobile.
Logged into Amazon and under the price beside the cover image in red text it says can't be delivered to the U.S.

[solaris72]

Originally Posted by thecalm_7

I haven't tried ordering it but here's an image
Sorry won't load from my mobile.
Logged into Amazon and under the price beside the cover image in red text it says can't be delivered to the U.S.

Yeah I'm seeing it too, after logging in.




Odd...never had this problem from Amazon UK in the past...

[Kriztoffer Swank]

This movie couldn't possibly look any better because it's a low-budget production from the '80s shot on cheap stock, amirite?





Oh, wait...

(Media Blasters top, 88 Films bottom)



Mind, these are taken from Facebook and heavily compressed, but at least the color and grain are there, making it much more filmic and pleasant than the mudslide diarrhea MB presentation.