1962 Mutiny on the Bounty in November 8 - Review up

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

‘Education’ is a funny thing, for when one provides didactic teaching as to the causes of various transfer issues….later even providing a consumer friendly visual aid at approximately the 2:50 mark of this YouTube clip linked in this past post…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post3461175

many viewers still incorrectly believe that objects the size of flying arrows, spears and fireballs disappear due to ‘DNR’ rather than excessively set automated dirt and scratch removal.

That one-legged dog sure was funny!

But I wonder; "How many times does this sort of thing happen when archive-class restorationists aren't micro-examining every frame?" Any notorious examples that slipped past studio QA on a major release Penton Man?

[Penton-Man]

When I have more time, I’ll try to address the topic more as a teaching vehicle rather than as a *gotcha* exercise.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

When I have more time, I’ll try to address the topic more as a teaching vehicle rather than as a *gotcha* exercise.

I know you're a busy lad Penton-Man, so that would indeed be appreciated.

[Penton-Man]

To help in saving me time in typing something up and also as an aid to prevent some hobbyists’ eyes from glazing over when they read something as dry as technical words on a page, I’ll try to find a YouTube clip as an illustration. Perhaps I’ll also get into what constitutes (at least in some actively working experts’ minds) a “restoration” as it is not as clear-cut as some inflexible purists mostly with a background in photochemical restoration would have you believe…..again, and again and again.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

To help in saving me time in typing something up and also as an aid to prevent some hobbyists’ eyes from glazing over when they read something as dry as technical words on a page, I’ll try to find a YouTube clip as an illustration. Perhaps I’ll also get into what constitutes (at least in some actively working experts’ minds) a “restoration” as it is not as clear-cut as some inflexible purists mostly with a background in photochemical restoration would have you believe…..again, and again and again.

All cool. Whatever works.

I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I just enjoy reading your seasoned insights on this subject Penton Man. Although I have tried to follow your home board as much as possible, the techno errata often goes right over my head. Nevertheless, I do very much care about the results, so any lay understanding of why we get what we get in the form that we get it is still appreciated.

To date, Blu-ray has been such a mixed-bag in terms of quality. Actually, that's what originally drove me to these boards. As a consumer, it's been like tip-toeing through a minefield.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

All cool. Whatever works....

If there be a great deal of scratches and dust to be cleaned and a busy facility is encumbered by a strict budget so as to not allow an unlimited labor-intensive commitment, then a reasonable plan would be to do a monitored automated dust busting/scratch removal pass characterized by conservative parameter settings in the Set-Up menu of the respective software which the shop uses.

Then, afterwards, you could do a frame-by-frame manual clean-up, such as with something akin to this…

DIAMANT-Film Restoration Interactive Restoration - YouTube

Keep in mind that this vendor ^ as well as the Head Curator of eye Film Institute Netherlands, Giovanna Fossati, Ph.D (from the previous YouTube clip I posted) describe dust busting as part of the digital restoration process, in fact Giovanna describes dust removal as "one of the most delicate operations in digital restoration". Some of a more inflexible *purist* background might scoff at this and proclaim it ‘digital clean-up’ rather than something that qualifies as ‘restoration’. I disagree and I’ll save my thoughts of what constitutes a ‘restoration’ for a later post.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I just enjoy reading your seasoned insights on this subject Penton Man. Although I have tried to follow your home board as much as possible, the techno errata often goes right over my head....

I’ve really got to stop staying at those H.I.Express establishments….

Holiday Inn Express Commercial - YouTube

[ole geezer]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I wish it were so but, if you read some of my posts from several years back, the first red flag for catalog titles not selling well was Close Encounters of the Third Kind because despite all the promotion afforded that particular Blu-ray title and the attention to detail the project received, it still did not perform up to expectations.

Next red flag was the Blu-ray of A Passage to India. From then on, the trend pretty much has been that many of SPHE’s catalog titles have not performed that well at retail. I would be surprised if this is not the case with a lot of the other majors’ catalog titles which have been brought out on the Blu-ray format. Nevertheless, that’s not to say that every Blu-ray catalog title should not be afforded the same gold standard care and attention, despite its pecking order in popularity…something of which SPHE strives to do. In other words, if you decide to take on a job, do it right.

1977. What a year that was for Sci-fi movie fans. We had Star Wars released that summer and Close Encounters released that Fall.

I would love to see Mr Spielberg climb aboard the 3D conversion wagon with his buds James Cameron and George Lucas and give us middle aged and older movie fans a real treat by doing up Close Encounters in 3D. The way 3D's popularity is growing worldwide, it's going to happen sooner or later, I'd just prefer sooner.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If there be a great deal of scratches and dust to be cleaned and a busy facility is encumbered by a strict budget so as to not allow an unlimited labor-intensive commitment, then a reasonable plan would be to do a monitored automated dust busting/scratch removal pass characterized by conservative parameter settings in the Set-Up menu of the respective software which the shop uses.

Then, afterwards, you could do a frame-by-frame manual clean-up, such as with something akin to this…

[Show spoiler]DIAMANT-Film Restoration Interactive Restoration - YouTube

Keep in mind that this vendor ^ as well as the Head Curator of eye Film Institute Netherlands, Giovanna Fossati, Ph.D (from the previous YouTube clip I posted) describe dust busting as part of the digital restoration process, in fact Giovanna describes dust removal as "one of the most delicate operations in digital restoration". Some of a more inflexible *purist* background might scoff at this and proclaim it ‘digital clean-up’ rather than something that qualifies as ‘restoration’. I disagree and I’ll save my thoughts of what constitutes a ‘restoration’ for a later post.

Wow! Thanks for that Penton Man! Knowing such processes exist and actually seeing them in action was fascinating.

But it begs the question: "When a studio says 'Digitially Restored' in its promo, what does that really mean?" I've always suspected it meant that they did not restore the film first...that they merely took the best sources available and fixed whatever was lacking on the fly to create a new digital master for the video output standard 'du jour'...that the film itself would still rest in a vault somewhere continuing to age photo-chemically. Presumably, in some extrapolated future where...say...4k, 8k, or higher rez becomes the new video standard, they would have to go back to those elements and fix them all over again.

Perhaps this is desirable because digital capture and restoration tools inevitably improve, so you always have the original vault elements to go back to if necessary. But I thought the ultimate goal of "restoration" was to once and for all bring the film back to a level where the original photo-chemical elements weren't required anymore...that if something disasterous should happen to those vault materials, the film would be preserved?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Wow! Thanks for that Penton Man! Knowing such processes exist and actually seeing them in action was fascinating.

But it begs the question: "When a studio says 'Digitially Restored' in its promo, what does that really mean?" I've always suspected it meant that they did not restore the film first...that they merely took the best sources available and fixed whatever was lacking on the fly to create a new digital master for the video output standard 'du jour'...

Well, I can only address as to how Sony Pictures has defined what a ‘restoration’ means, that being to go back to the original film negative or at least the best surviving film element(s) with the goal to produce restored film elements that would permit the replication of the theatrical experience that movie-goers had when they initially viewed the film print the very first day in which the motion picture was released.

So, the key is that you are going back to give attention to the actual film elements…sometimes this incurs solely digital restorative processes (such as dust busting), sometimes only photochemical restorative processes, and sometimes a combination of both.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

...that if something disasterous should happen to those vault materials, the film would be preserved?

That would truly have to be a disaster of epic proportions as Sony Pictures Entertainment (not Columbia/Sony) maintains at least 3 versions of each motion picture asset which are stored in geographically separate locations.

[Arkadin]

very sad day today--
the HMS Bounty has sunk due to Hurricane Sandy.
(the ship built for and used in the 1962 film)
and 1 person may be dead.
incredible travesty.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...-nc-coast?lite

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

very sad day today--
the HMS Bounty has sunk due to Hurricane Sandy.
(the ship built for and used in the 1962 film)
and 1 person may be dead.
incredible travesty.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...-nc-coast?lite

Yeah, why was it even out there with Sandy on the way? Did they hope to outrun it?

[Joce]

This movie need a new restoration from the original 65mm !
The PQ deserves a lot better.

[film11]

Originally Posted by Joce

This movie need a new restoration from the original 65mm !
The PQ deserves a lot better.

Agreed. But it's MGM so it'll never happen.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by film11

Agreed. But it's MGM so it'll never happen.

Actually the home video rights are with Warner, but they are not very fond of tackling this one, same with Battle of the Bulge by the way.

[#Darren]

I just watched this. WONDERFUL film. Also a great selection of "extra features". But surely the PQ is only 3/5. This sites review of 4/5 is just plain silly.

[CinemaScope]

Originally Posted by #Darren

I just watched this. WONDERFUL film. Also a great selection of "extra features". But surely the PQ is only 3/5. This sites review of 4/5 is just plain silly.

Yeah, it's a great film, & I really like Brando's performance, & I'd agree about a 3/5 score, some of the shots inside the ship on the voyage look very odd, a new scan & this could be the best looking Blu-ray out there. Another thing that's always bugged me is the alternate beginning & end scenes are all wrong, the picture is vertically stretched, everyone's tall & thin, the DVD was the same...& no review has ever mentioned it!

[Oliver K]

3/5 is OK not knowing that this is coming from a large format source and 2/5 if one takes into account what it could and should look like. Imo 4 out of 5 is an insult to excellent discs like King of Kings that got 4.5 out of 5 in an earlier review - the difference between excellent and embarrassingly soft is only 0.5 points?

As an example on how much is missing I can comfortably say that Mutiny on the Bounty looked better and more detailed in its 70mm prints than Spartacus - I have seen both movies on the same screen and even at the same film festival and then again on other screens at different occasions and the impression was always the same. Now look at the Blu-ray of Spartacus and what Warner gave us with Mutiny on the Bounty. It is very sad and I will never buy this Blu-ray - I am unhappy enough with my equally soft and mushy HD-DVD, no matter how nice the colors look at times.

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

Actually the home video rights are with Warner, but they are not very fond of tackling this one, same with Battle of the Bulge by the way.

Such a shame, those are two of the blu-rays I'd put on a list of "top 10 most wanted for a re-do", or better yet - an UHD release (even more unlikely, but they are large format which should almost demand a full 6K/8K remaster and a UHD).

I'd say Battle of the Bulge was far more in need of a remaster, I found Mutiny at least "passable". Granted, I don't have the best eyes for these things. But I know Battle of the Bulge immediately jumped out at me as being poor (as being obviously from an old DVD master), and I got that one very early on in my blu-ray habit. On second viewing more recently, it was even worse than I remembered.