Fantasia (1940) (The Signature Collection) - TBA

[Logos14]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

The Red Shoes (New York's Museum of Modern Art showed Fantasia and The Red Shoes as a celebration of dance, but the visual abstractions, use of color, and movement in The Red Shoes seem so twinned up with Fantasia it's impossible for me to watch either without thinking of the other)

Michael Powell (the director of The Red Shoes) on Walt Disney:

He was one of the great innovators of film. One of the things I liked was when talkies came in, a lot of the timing of silent films went out of the window and nobody made those marvelous slapstick comedies anymore because there were only verbal jokes. But Disney kept on making those wonderful cartoons for at least another ten years so he kept the whole idea of film comedy and narrative through image alive. People don't realize that they owe an enormous lot to him.
http://www.powell-pressburger.org/Re...aelPowell.html

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Class316

The version I have that is my go-to is the 2000 DVD with the censored bits inserted back in (done very way might I did even if the quality of the censored bits is not on the par with DVD footage).

My "dream" version that can be attained with all currently available sources would be this

Blu Ray footage
Laserdisc audio for most of it
DVD audio for the footage of the missing Deems audio
Censored bits from an HD film transfer reinserted (yes those exist)

Question for those who own the LD. I know the censorship isn't as smooth as the DVD and blu ray, right? So does that mean the audio cuts out? Or is the audio on the Pastoral symphony intact on LD as it is on DVD/blu?

My understanding is that the music is left alone, but they use frame-zooms to obscure Sunflower on the LD of the 1990 version. But I've never done an A/B/C comparison of the 1990 version versus the 1955 version on LP or the DVD so take that with a grain of salt. All I know is that in 1991, I used the LD, a CD player, and a VCR to try and recreate the 1982 Kostal release. The Pastoral was a freaking nightmare. The 1982 version simply lopped off the offending shots, so Kostal had to compose musical bridges around the edits. The 1990 and 2000 versions restored the original music, but employed zooms (1990) and then digital tools (2000) to remove the offending visuals. I think the music was left alone, but could be wrong.

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Yellow Submarine and Pink Floyd The Wall. Haven't read anything stated by Duning or Parker recognizing any influence by Fantasia, but again, part of the family.

Pink is wearing this when you first see him as an adult. The way that movie is set up, it had to be on purpose.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Pink is wearing this when you first see him as an adult. The way that movie is set up, it had to be on purpose.

That's the hard thing about "proving" one group or artist tipping their hat to another group. Is it irony? Commentary? Love? Criticism? Until you get them on record expressly saying so or the inspiration is so obvious as to be beyond question...it's just speculation.

Anyway, I learned something today thanks to a new board member. Never came across this in any Disney book...Powell made it a habit to spend time with Walt Disney whenever he made it out to Hollywood?

"He was a great inventor and innovator. I was very fond of him. Whenever I was in Hollywood after the war, I always spent a day with him."

[Logos14]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Powell made it a habit to spend time with Walt Disney whenever he made it out to Hollywood?

I too found that interesting but unfortunately I haven't seen any further descriptions of those visits. Some other Powell remarks on Disney:

For the future, I name Walt Disney, magician; greater than Hans Andersen, greater than Lewis Carroll, greater than Mother Goose herself, greater than any of them, for he holds the parents spellbound while he awakens the imagination of their children; the greatest craftsmen of them all, for his power is limitless and he still seeks to limit it, the greatest director of them all because his control of his medium is complete and yet he is never satisfied.

http://www.powell-pressburger.org/Re...eview1945.html

[Ernest Rister]

Here's another one in the "same family" list...

The Graduate.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by Ned Brainard

If I were producing a new home video edition of Fantasia, I would present several different cuts of the film:
1. The 1940 Roadshow version as reconstructed in 2000 with the Corey Burton redub.
2. The 1947 reissue version with the surviving Deems Taylor audio.
3. The 1942 heavily recut 80 minute version (for kicks and grins - I would love to see a cutting continuity for this version)
4. The 1982 Irwin Kostal rescored version.
While I hate censorship, I would reluctantly go along with the Sunflower edits. If this were a niche release going out through the Warner Archive or Kino, you could probably get away with it, but with a mass market item I don't think you could without tempting the ire of the twitter outrage mob (most of whom have probably never seen the film, know little to nothing about it, and probably have no intention to ever watch it). However, I would include the uncensored footage in the supplemental features with all of the talking heads (Leonard Maltin, Whoopi Goldberg, etc.) to explain the segment and its historical context.

None of the above. The only correct answer is to use all available materials to restore the 1940 version (censored footage restored and all) as closely as possible.

Originally Posted by Logos14

I'd rather have the unaltered version, but how much does a black centaurette slave character add to the movie? What's "horrid" is Walt Disney's decision to combine a minstrel show stereotype with Beethoven.

It is up to each individual viewer to decide how much that character contributes.

However, without her who is rolling that carpet?

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

I have the VHS (which would be the same as the LD, I have that too but no player), and a clip which I believe is from one of the Wonderful World specials which has Sunflower intact. The audio just cuts around the part where several girls are prancing and the two clips never catch up like the DVD. Most of the other scenes just zoom in so you can't see her (except for the carpet scene where you can just see her tail if you look for it).

That's what I thought. So any fan restoration using the LD audio would need some DVD audio to complete it due to the way the LD was censored (in addition to the Deems dub where no Deems voice is available)

[Ernest Rister]

Never gonna happen.

[solaris72]

For direct influence add to the list the Hungarian epic THE TRAGEDY OF MAN. 23 years in the making, adapted from a 19th century Hungarian play, it's essentially a cross between FANTASIA and INTOLERANCE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eSd...ature=youtu.be

[Class316]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Never gonna happen.

There's a difference between "never gonna happen" and "never gonna happen via official means"

[JupiterMission]

Originally Posted by solaris72

For direct influence add to the list the Hungarian epic THE TRAGEDY OF MAN. 23 years in the making, adapted from a 19th century Hungarian play, it's essentially a cross between FANTASIA and INTOLERANCE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eSd...ature=youtu.be

I'd never even heard of this, but now I have to see it! Looks awesome!

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by Class316

None of the above. The only correct answer is to use all available materials to restore the 1940 version (censored footage restored and all) as closely as possible.




It is up to each individual viewer to decide how much that character contributes.

However, without her who is rolling that carpet?



That's what I thought. So any fan restoration using the LD audio would need some DVD audio to complete it due to the way the LD was censored (in addition to the Deems dub where no Deems voice is available)

A talented restorer could use parts of the 1990 soundtrack CD to fill in that little gap in the Pastoral. It's not Dolby Surround of course but it is the same stereo mix and wouldn't be polluted with any sound effects. For ten seconds or so overlaid it would be okay. There's also the LP from the 60s.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

A talented restorer could use parts of the 1990 soundtrack CD to fill in that little gap in the Pastoral. It's not Dolby Surround of course but it is the same stereo mix and wouldn't be polluted with any sound effects. For ten seconds or so overlaid it would be okay. There's also the LP from the 60s.

Hmnm....good idea

[BenAndrewsNYC]

All fun, but like, *none* of this is about a Fantasia Signature release. Surely there's a better place to continue this? It's a bit annoying to see the thread show up on the main page only to click and be let down its 0% on the topic of the thread name...

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by BenAndrewsNYC

All fun, but like, *none* of this is about a Fantasia Signature release. Surely there's a better place to continue this? It's a bit annoying to see the thread show up on the main page only to click and be let down its 0% on the topic of the thread name...

Ben, I figure it's going to be a late-year 4k release advertised as celebrating the 80th anniversary, or they'll wait for the actual 80th anniversary in 2020 for the 4k. Either way, it's coming. In what form, I don't know, and at this point, I'd gladly snap it up if it included the 1982 Kostal version even as a digital-only bonus. I have zero hope the 4k release will differ at all from the 2k master already released on Blu, which means that soundbar-tablet-phone-friendly mix down neutering the hard stereo pans in the audio...but at least all the supplements from the incredible 2000 DVD release of the "Fantasia Anthology" should appear, even if streaming only. We're 20 years out, and the Roy-supervised DVD is still the way to go for this film.

[solaris72]

Originally Posted by JupiterMission

I'd never even heard of this, but now I have to see it! Looks awesome!

It's available for rent/purchase on youtube. As for physical media, the Hungarian blu-ray looks great, has English subs for the main feature (not for the extras) and is region free.

Here's where I bought it

[Class316]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Ben, I figure it's going to be a late-year 4k release advertised as celebrating the 80th anniversary, or they'll wait for the actual 80th anniversary in 2020 for the 4k. Either way, it's coming. In what form, I don't know, and at this point, I'd gladly snap it up if it included the 1982 Kostal version even as a digital-only bonus. I have zero hope the 4k release will differ at all from the 2k master already released on Blu, which means that soundbar-tablet-phone-friendly mix down neutering the hard stereo pans in the audio...but at least all the supplements from the incredible 2000 DVD release of the "Fantasia Anthology" should appear, even if streaming only. We're 20 years out, and the Roy-supervised DVD is still the way to go for this film.

Yea it's pointless. We're not getting anything good. So no idea why people care that much. It could be a new 4K transfer loaded with extras. I would still know better than to get excited.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Class316

Yea it's pointless. We're not getting anything good. So no idea why people care that much. It could be a new 4K transfer loaded with extras. I would still know better than to get excited.

Lots of random thoughts here for me..using phone keyboard. Forgive blunt text.

Fantasia is a hard sell. Always has been. What was novel in 1940 (stereo and a sort of surround sound) is common in homes today. Imagination and visual ideas inspired by music -- also common today. Even with the novelty, the biggest stumbling block Fantasia could never overcome was the use of classical music. I can't answer that, I love all forms of music, music is the heartbeat rhythm of humanity. But for whatever reason (class issues probably landing at number one) symphonic classical music intimidates people -- "I'm supposed to like this stuff or else I'll look uncultured". Fantasia pissed off cultural elitists, while at the same time, intimidated (maybe even alienated) Disney's general audience.

Fantasia's sweet-spot as a commercial property came from young adults in the 60's who grew up with Walt on TV, had kids of their own, and from the late-60's release on up to the blockbuster 1991 home video release, the reputation and affection for the movie grew almost exponentially.

We're in a new era now. The last blu release of the film was a trainwreck with the hopeful reliance on BD-Live for bonus features (must have sounded good in pitch meetings -- "Fantasia will be revolutionary once again!" -- then few people could get it to work at all and the set went straight OOP). 4k will help Fantasia, but one would think they'd have to go hard with actual accessible bonus content to help sell this disc. Throw in that scuttled Fantasia World content..."Little Match Girl", "Lorenzo", "One By One", "Destino"...finally release Fantasia 82 even as a streaming only feature. Fantasia's a hard sell. We'll see this year or next how Disney sells it.

[TylerDurden389]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Fantasia is a hard sell.

Guess we know what their next live-action adaptation should be,

[Imaginarion]

Originally Posted by TylerDurden389

Guess we know what their next live-action adaptation should be,

The Sorcerer’s Apprentice segment was already (loosely) adapted into a live-action film with Nicolas Cage about ten years ago, actually. Night on Bald Mountain has an upcoming live-action adaptation, too. I would love to see some of the others reimagined, though, especially the Pastoral Symphony.