Inclusion Riders in Hollywood...

[SleazyForWeasley]

I think inclusion riders are nothing new and that behind the scenes crews are fairly diverse even if unintentional or where "riders" aren't standard practice. I think this is branding to make white filmmakers/artists feel better about themselves. Inclusion Riders aren't going to help women directors nor directors of color get more jobs.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

If there was a qualifed black worker and I didnt hire him then Im stupid. I just let a qualified candidate walk away and go somewhere else to be productive. Bad for business.

It's only bad for business if other businesses hire those qualified applicants. But if your entire industry is inclined to pass on that qualified applicant then there's really no competitive disadvantage attached to your stupidity.

Originally Posted by WestMan

Affirmative action has been around for over 55 years and things still aren't "equal". There is a village in Kenya that produces the majority of the best runners in the history of long distance running. Should big marathons make sure non-Kenyans have an equal chance at winning the races?

Yes, actually. If changing my place of birth from Chicago to Kenya significantly increases my chances of being allowed to run a big marathon that big marathon should probably take a closer look at its application process.

Originally Posted by CelluloidPal

Well, Hollywood isn't exactly known for making smart decisions. Besides, if it helps them look progressive to the public, it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

If Hollywood isn't exactly known for making smart decisions why would we assume their hiring practices are immune to their bad decision making. Why should we presume that an industry prone to bad decision making generally hires the most qualified applicants?

Originally Posted by Captain Flint

I'm all for diverse crews and whatnot, but forcing it is stupid. There are going to be times that the more qualified candidate is going to get passed over for someone who is only being hired to fill a quota.

Sure, that's a fair point. The counter to that would be that qualified applicants are being rejected either way. I'm not a big fan of explicit numeric quotas or the like but I'm also not a big fan of pretending that 'color/gender blind' hiring practices always work out that way in practice.

If you ignore this stuff, qualified people are going to get screwed. If you rely too heavily on numbers, qualified people are going to get screwed.

It's a pick your poison kind of situation.

Originally Posted by CelluloidPal

That would be falsifying an application, which has legal ramifications.

That's the red flag in that story for you? That researchers 'falsified' applications to see if removing references to ethnicity improved the chances of being called in for an interview?

What about the fact that it worked? Is that cause for any concern?

[Trace Buster Buster]

Are people really using that harvard resume study as factual evidence? There's too many variables in that study to draw any hard conclusions. You realize that most HR people (you know, the people who look at resumes and do the hiring) are women right? I guess we can use that study as evidence that women are the biggest racists of all (which is also bogus).

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Trace Buster Buster

Are people really using that harvard resume study as factual evidence? There's too many variables in that study to draw any hard conclusions. You realize that most HR people (you know, the people who look at resumes and do the hiring) are women right? I guess we can use that study as evidence that women are the biggest racists of all (which is also bogus).

You can find flaws or weak points with any single study. And one should always be cautious when interpreting any data let alone social science type data.

But there's just too much data pointing to bias in all manner of decisions - housing, lending, hiring, admissions - to pretend that these decisions are always made on the basis of qualifications and qualifications alone.

[Pondosinatra]

Well to be honest, I saw the trailer for A Wrinkle In Time and was instantly turned off - it felt like in just 30 seconds I was being repeatedly bashed over the head with political correctness.

If that's the future direction of Hollywood looks like I'll either be watching more foreign films or films from years past.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Well to be honest, I saw the trailer for A Wrinkle In Time and was instantly turned off - it felt like in just 30 seconds I was being repeatedly bashed over the head with political correctness.

If that's the future direction of Hollywood looks like I'll either be watching more foreign films or films from years past.

Actually - I was quite interested in the film since I enjoy sci-fi & fantasy stuff. I like Chris Pine too. But, the awful reviews turned me off a LOT more than any PC stuff they may have been pushing. The trailer didnt seem preachy or anythng. Just a flick based on a fantasy novel. Thats all.

Im not going to bother even seeing it.... but thats due to the universally awful reviews!

[Makarov]

Annihilation has a very diverse cast, all of which are playing great roles professionals & scientists, yet all you'll find regarding the movie in regards to diversity is the film defending it against accusations of whitewashing. No one cares what's really going on, everyone just wants PR points

[Talleyrand]

Classic octagon, coming in and making good points almost beyond refutation.

Actually...not-so-classic octagon...this is the new octagon.

This one is fine, but I sometimes miss the days of "zero content troll posts" that incensed Infernal King and mjbethancourt and other very serious men.

Originally Posted by spanky87

Am I living my life as a privileged white male wrong if I never eat cheese sandwiches or drink Mountain Dew?

I dunno, is that a white thing?

I think the whitest stereotype that I engage in is drinking craft beer, and especially IPAs.

I also spend $5+ on coffee a day, apparently that's also a white thing. However it's not a waste of money because by drinking coffee you cut back on other expenses.

Originally Posted by manunited1

You lost me. Not sure what "straw" means in Canada or if you are using it properly.

Are you saying I am a man of Straw..? Are you saying you are against minority representation? Not sure what to make of your comment.

I am saying your argument is a straw man; that is, you are arguing against something which no one is claiming, i.e., a "straw" version of the real argument.

You kept using the phrase "against minority representation" and "against minority inclusion," as if that is what people were arguing. In reality, however, nobody is arguing against minority representation or minority inclusion.

They are arguing against a certain form of quota which is not at all the same thing. If someone was "against minority representation" full stop, that would be a truly racist belief and not worth engaging with.

Originally Posted by kylec123

If they need to hire more minorities and feel I am exactly as qualified as them, sure. I can find work elsewhere.

That's fair and I appreciate your consistency. I'll just take it one step further: Would you feel the same way if your son or daughter was in that situation?

Originally Posted by manunited1

Assuming you know what Obtuse means... I am just advising you to never have this conversation with or around any Native Americans. Might get ugly.

Words like "all", "most", or "mainly" could get you in trouble used in the context that you have used them recently.

Just so you know, there was an estimated 5.5 million Native Americans enslaved. So NO... it was not mostly or mainly Black people that were enslaved in America.

Okay thanks I did not realize that Native American slaves accounted for a significant amount of the slave population as compared to Black slaves.

Either way my overall point which I made with respect to slavery stands.

[Rixx]

Originally Posted by jacobsever

Hell, who even knows if this world would have Harry Potter if she would have tried publishing it under the name Joanne instead of JK?

Not the best example as JK Rowling using the pen name Robert Galbraith had "The Cuckoo’s Calling" rejected many times before it was finally published in 2013.

Hell, even Harry Potter was rejected by several publishers. I don't think she has posted those rejection letters so can't say if they were addresses to JK or Joanne.


https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...ion-on-twitter

[nick4Knight]

Words like whitewashing, cultural appropriation and diversity quotas... these are all cancerous words we need to stand strongly against.

It's Marxist lunacy at the foundation, at the core of such thinking that comes out with these ideas -- You can be for diversity without mandating it. You can champion ethnic representation without criticizing the entire dominant race in a field. You can advocate for emotional causes without losing ALL of your logical reasoning!

You can hold two thoughts of equal weight in your head at once. Life isn't black and white. Race, or in terms of ideas.

[CelluloidPal]

Originally Posted by octagon

If Hollywood isn't exactly known for making smart decisions why would we assume their hiring practices are immune to their bad decision making. Why should we presume that an industry prone to bad decision making generally hires the most qualified applicants?

Exactly.

Originally Posted by octagon

That's the red flag in that story for you? That researchers 'falsified' applications to see if removing references to ethnicity improved the chances of being called in for an interview?

What about the fact that it worked? Is that cause for any concern?

Where did I say that it was a red flag?

[Shingster]

Why don't you people let Hollywood worry about the making of films and you lot get back to worrying about watching them? At the end of the day this is a performance-based industry and if a black or hispanic or female crew member has been hired who is unqualified and cocking things up and costing the production time and money, the studio will get rid of them pronto. In reality there are relatively few positions in the crew department of making a film where only highly qualified white men will do and you can accept no substitute.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by Shingster

Why don't you people let Hollywood worry about the making of films and you lot get back to worrying about watching them?

In other words shut your mouth and know your role?
This is a discussion forum right?

[Shingster]

No, in other words: What the hell do you lot know about making films in Hollywood? We've had one actual industry insider with real experience giving actual knowledgeable information on how said industry needs a shake up and how these riders might not be the cataclysmic event you fanboys think it is, but guess what: This is Blu-ray.com and ignorance rules so his opinion was completely ignored. What a surprise!

[Talleyrand]

Originally Posted by Shingster

Why don't you people let Hollywood worry about the making of films and you lot get back to worrying about watching them?

Frances brought it up at a time when she knew the public would be watching.

I think that makes it a fair subject of conversation.

Originally Posted by Shingster

In reality there are relatively few positions in the crew department of making a film where only highly qualified white men will do and you can accept no substitute.

In fact, there are none.

[WestMan]

Originally Posted by Shingster

No, in other words: What the hell do you lot know about making films in Hollywood? We've had one actual industry insider with real experience giving actual knowledgeable information on how said industry needs a shake up and how these riders might not be the cataclysmic event you fanboys think it is, but guess what: This is Blu-ray.com and ignorance rules so his opinion was completely ignored. What a surprise!

But you are knowledgeable enough to know to tell others to basically shut up? Brilliant logic.

I don't think you need to be an industry insider to know that forced diversity by the numbers is a horrible idea.

[Shingster]

It really doesn't take much knowledge to see a circle-jerk discussion thread filled with over-opinionated ignoramuses incapable of providing genuine insight on the topic at hand. Christ you don't even have to read the thread, just the usernames! It's the same usernames in every thread in this forum that touches upon race or gender, the same damn people spouting the same inane crap every single time!

[WestMan]

Originally Posted by Shingster

It really doesn't take much knowledge to see a circle-jerk discussion thread filled with over-opinionated ignoramuses incapable of providing genuine insight on the topic at hand. Christ you don't even have to read the thread, just the usernames! It's the same usernames in every thread in this forum that touches upon race or gender, the same damn people spouting the same inane crap every single time!

Can the same be said for your username since you are in this thread?

Please add something useful to the discussion. This is a legit topic to discuss. Instead, you just want to throw insults.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by Shingster

It really doesn't take much knowledge to see a circle-jerk discussion thread filled with over-opinionated ignoramuses incapable of providing genuine insight on the topic at hand. Christ you don't even have to read the thread, just the usernames! It's the same usernames in every thread in this forum that touches upon race or gender, the same damn people spouting the same inane crap every single time!

You seem like you are a bit angry.

[Blu Titan]

Thread is closed as it directly promotes the discussion of race, gender and politics...those topics are very divise and have no place in this community.