Batman Forever 170 Minute Cut

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Ang Lee's Hulk is wildly underrated. People will sleep on Eric Bana's psychologically tormented portrayal, and then stan for a comic relief Hulk who dabs? Nah, I'm not havin' it.

I adore that film.

I remember a friend of mine, when we went to see it opening night, asked me during the film why the film had so much split screen and I told him it was because it made it look like a comic book page with panels and he was like "Oooooooohhh, that's cool." That film is nothing short of a masterpiece.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Personally I like my Batman films to have visual style, and dialogue that doesn't make me wanna kill myself.

It's not like the first four films had David Mamet scripts.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

It's not like the first four films had David Mamet scripts.

I genuinely think Returns has a fantastic screenplay. Daniel Waters' dialogue is terrific.

[Evangelos]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

They really are the kind of superhero movies we'll never see again, along with films like Hulk and Dick Tracy.

Absolutely, those films try to translate the visual language of comics to film,
instead of simply looking as bland and generic as possible,which is why I just can't get into the MCU.

I haven't seen Hulk in many,many years but I do own the blu ray,maybe I should rewatch it someday.I do remember that dog fight scene though,of course it's impossible that something like that would be in a MCU movie without an army of nerds throwing their popcorn at the screen..

[CreasyBear]

The first half of Sam Hamm's script for the 1989 film, before Warren Skaaren tore it apart in the second half, is the closest the first four came to a coherent, intelligent, and consistent script, but yeah the Returns script is second, I suppose. Akiva Goldsman, however, wrote two films where people don't talk like human beings. I mean, it fits the tone, don't get me wrong, but ehhh...not the best work.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by Evangelos

Absolutely, those films try to translate the visual language of comics to film,
instead of simply looking as bland and generic as possible,which is why I just can't get into the MCU.

I haven't seen Hulk in many,many years but I do own the blu ray,maybe I should rewatch it someday.I do remember that dog fight scene though,of course it's impossible that something like that would be in a MCU movie without the army of nerds throwing their popcorn at the screen..

Hulk fights a giant poodle. It's brilliant.

I remember seeing the trailer and they use the shot of Hulk breaking out of the containment water tank and the level of ferocity and emotion in the animation...it took my breath away. Nothing like that had ever been seen before. And I mean, Nolte is brilliant and I really believe Bana has all this pent up rage inside of him. It's such a smart, wonderfully made film.

I should also mention Sin City and 300, as well, while we're talking about comic book visual language. God, 300 is such a beauty.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Akiva Goldsman, however, wrote two films where people don't talk like human beings.

I mean... doesn't that describe the dialogue in Nolan's films? The characters routinely deliver these pseudo-philosophical speeches, all of which pertain to whichever theme Nolan and his co-writer have randomly selected to give the film 'weight.' It's a large part of why I'm not a massive fan of Nolan's films. I really hate the writing style. Rise isn't much better in that department, but whether Nolan intended it or not, that film swings heavily into camp in a way that the other two films don't, so it doesn't entirely disappear up its own ass.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

I mean... doesn't that describe the dialogue in Nolan's films? The characters routinely deliver these pseudo-philosophical speeches, all of which pertain to whichever theme Nolan and his co-writer have randomly selected to give the film 'weight.' It's a large part of why I'm not a massive fan of Nolan's films. I really hate the writing style.

But at least they're talking about something pertaining to the characters, themes, and story.

[L.J.]

Like all the films and the different interpretations they have.
The Dark Knight
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight Rises
Batman
Batman Returns
Batman vs Superman
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin

[Evangelos]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

I should also mention Sin City and 300, as well, while we're talking about comic book visual language. God, 300 is such a beauty.

Add Del Toro's Hellboys as well.
Personally,that was a very exciting time for comic book films,but it was soon over when Frank Miller's The Spirit tanked and Watchmen underperformed.
300 was genious on the visual department,but the sequel just didn't have that same edge I remember,it was shot to look more conventional,to my eyes at least.
When Sin City 2 came on,it was all over.

I've been told that from the MCU,James Gunn's stuff and Thor 3 are the only ones with some kind of visual quality,but I haven't seen them.

[CreasyBear]

I never much cared for Del Toro's Hellboy films. They seemed too safe and meddled with by the studios. I think Del Toro's best comic book film, and probably best film overall, is still Blade II, a near perfect sequel.

[Evangelos]

Really?That's another one due for a rewatch.
The first Hellboy was definely a more studio driven film but the second one has a lot more of Del Toro's personality I think.

[ben6543]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

I mean... doesn't that describe the dialogue in Nolan's films? The characters routinely deliver these pseudo-philosophical speeches, all of which pertain to whichever theme Nolan and his co-writer have randomly selected to give the film 'weight.' It's a large part of why I'm not a massive fan of Nolan's films. I really hate the writing style. Rise isn't much better in that department, but whether Nolan intended it or not, that film swings heavily into camp in a way that the other two films don't, so it doesn't entirely disappear up its own ass.

That's one of the reasons I Find Nolan's batman movies so boring they are just one big exposition Dump

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by Evangelos

Really?That's another one due for a rewatch.
The first Hellboy was definely a more studio driven film but the second one has a lot more of Del Toro's personality I think.

That's true. The second is more of a Del Toro film, but I personally never took to them, even though I love Perlman's performance.

[Evangelos]

And to think that even then,these movies have more personality and visual flair than the majority of comic book films coming today.

I am pleasantly surprised about the news coming from DC these days though,
Keaton's return,Snyder's JL and Ayer's SS unchained,and now,after all these years the extended cut of Batman Forever.

[shinobipopcorn]

The Dark Knight is a great film, but I think Batman Begins is a better Batman film. Really, the only thing that bugs me is the way they pronounce Ra's al Ghul.

[joshsquash729]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

The Dark Knight is a great film, but I think Batman Begins is a better Batman film. Really, the only thing that bugs me is the way they pronounce Ra's al Ghul.

This small little nit bugs me too. It's literally pronounced the same in every other incarnation, so it's not like they didn't have anything to draw from. Have they ever explained why they changed it? Definitely unnecessarily Americanized. Only thing I've ever been able to come up with is to avoid immature people comparing it to that other R word that it rhymes with.

[Mephariel]

Originally Posted by Britbuffguy

I can honestly put the first 3 Batman films above Batman Begins. Say what you want, but those films actually felt like comic book films, where as Nolan's was more real world...with Batman.

I enjoy all seven films for different reasons....Batman & Robin is just fun to watch it be so awful, so I don't find any need to look down on people for liking the older 4 films.

Saying the 3 films Feel more like comic book movies is one thing. Saying they are better than Nolan's film is another.

I can't understand how anyone think those 90 films are better.

The only 90s Batman film that could be on par is Mask of the Phatasm.

[ArrestedDevelopment]

^ that's exactly why I like Nolan's Batman films over the DCEU and MCU.

The more grounded the better.

[CrazyBlu-RayFan]

Originally Posted by Mephariel

Saying the 3 films Feel more like comic book movies is one thing. Saying they are better than Nolan's film is another.

I can't understand how anyone think those 90 films are better.

The only 90s Batman film that could be on par is Mask of the Phatasm.

In my opinion, Batman Returns is still the only live action movie to properly showcase the tragedy of Batman and how his villains are in someway a reflection of him, others tried, but none of them go as specific as Returns does. I also think that Batman Returns is better written, acted, directed, and edited than any of the Nolan movies. Being grounded and realistic doesn't make a good movie, it's how well done a movie actually is that makes it good. And I don't hate the Nolan movies, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are great, but they still don't compare to the excellent quality of Batman Returns or even Batman (1989).