Armour of God - 88 Films

[Nurmilainen]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

I'm curious. Why is everyone so fascinated with Alan Tam? I mean, nobody has explicitly requested featurettes on any other stars that have popped up in these movies.

He's famous enough that his English Wikipedia article is actually pretty thorough. It just leaves out that his contribution to Cantopop was aping Japanese pop music and production, and that by the 2000s nobody really cared about him anymore so he's constantly teaming up with other singers for tours.

In this thread or in generall? He was the co-star of the movie discussed in this thread, IMO he and Jackie made a great team on screen (and I would actually have liked to see them in more movies together), plus he delivered some cool, memorable songs on the soundtrack which is now embedded in the hearts and heads of lots of people who like this movie. I really appreciate him for his contributions to this movie. That's as far as my Alan Tam fascination goes.

Then here I am re-buying Jackie Chan movies for the umpteenth time even thought he took credit for far to many stunts he didn't perform through his career and seems to become even more of douchebag for every year that passes, so well you may have a point after all I guess I'm not qualified to aswer you question after all

[Markgway]

People who only know Tam from Armour of God and his pop career may be surprised by this little actioner:

Hard Boiled 2: The Last Blood - 1991 (VHS trailer) - YouTube

[Nurmilainen]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

He's obviously got some untapped fanbase on this forum.

You are not wrong there.

[chen lung]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

假如我是真的 (I don't know what the English title)

'If I Were for Real' (1981), apparently.

[Killer Meteor]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

Weirdly enough, he's actually managed to be mainly a popstar unlike every other huge star who has to do both equally.

He did win a Best Actor Golden Horse for 假如我是真的 (I don't know what the English title) though, a staunchly anti-CCP film from Taiwan. There were calls to have it taken from him recently with his vehement Chinese flag waving.

Is it me, or is every HK star selling out these days?

[Aclea]

Anthony Wong didn't, which is why we haven't seen him in much lately. He's currently considering Taiwanese citizenry.

[calum]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

It's not really selling out as much as it's a change of regime, isn't it? Honestly, I can understand it to a degree. If you're in this industry then the Hong Kong market isn't big enough to survive in especially if you're a working actor. Same goes for people like Tam who are half-washed-up. In China, you don't even have to be a big name to pull regular decently-paid work, and the Mainland Chinese market is as massive as it's convenient. If you are/were a big name, then China will treat you (ironically) like ****ing royalty because as much as 'Hong Kong is a part of China', they also lap up anything that's 'Hong Kong culture'. Project Gutenberg made all the money in the world simply because it had Chow Yun-Fat with two guns. If Stephen Chow and Ng Man-Tat got back together, the Earth would flip on its axis.

Of course, if you want Chinese money, you've gotta play the game.



He's already moved to Taiwan.

They put muslims in concentration camps pal. If people cared more about what was happening in Hong Kong under an authoritarian regime, and supported the pro-democracy protests (a 24 year old woman, Agnes Chow, spent her birthday in prison for opposing the regime in Beijing), as much as they did old kung fu films on Blu-Ray it would be appreciated. Hong Kong isn't a martial arts replay stuck in the 1980s. It's a real place with real people, whose way of life has been dramatically curbed in the past year. The Orientalism of seeing it through the paradigm of 40 year old Jackie Chan movies in 2020 and some posts in general are just... wow.

[calum]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

We're on the same page, but I don't know why (and maybe it's a total misreading) I'm being 'attacked'. Due to the nature of the forum, I generally don't frame my posts about Hong Kong with overt politics (even when it's relevant).

No I'm not attacking you. I find it frustrating that labels are catering so well to old HK films and those lapping it up just seem to have no interest (dare I even say awareness?) of the place outside of kung fu films. It's this surreal Orientalism, from quite privileged white people of course who are not about to be arrested for their political views, that I cannot get my head around. Hong Kong is an actual place, not an eternal grindhouse theatre stuck in 1980. If you are loving what 88 and others are doing, it takes a few minutes to write to your local MP and to suggest the UK govt extend the new residency scheme outside of just BNO passport holders. You can enjoy Armor of God and do this too.

If I get banned for "politics" instead of concern about Orientalism then so be it. Sorry chaps.

[dallywhitty]

So, uh, Blu-rays... pretty cool, huh?

[chen lung]

What I’ll say is this: as much as I like the movies, I try to separate personal from professional (and I apply that to things like music too), though I appreciate that’s hard for some. To illustrate (and without going into too much detail), I’m not totally oblivious to what’s going on, and some of the translators helping us aren’t exactly the biggest fans of this film’s (‘Armour of God’) star.

Incidentally, people might be slightly surprised with some of the titles coming up (it’s not JC-centric).

[calum]

Originally Posted by chen lung

What I’ll say is this: as much as I like the movies, I try to separate personal from professional (and I apply that to things like music too), though I appreciate that’s hard for some. To illustrate (and without going into too much detail), I’m not totally oblivious to what’s going on, and some of the translators helping us aren’t exactly the biggest fans of this film’s (‘Armour of God’) star.

Incidentally, people might be slightly surprised with some of the titles coming up (it’s not JC-centric).

I don't think film or any art can be separated from politics particularly not Hong Kong. I've been discussing some of this with Jingan Young and recommend her recent(ish) review of Mulan.



It is the sort of informed, intelligent and localised (as a Hong Konger in London) perspective so sorely missing.

[calum]

Originally Posted by Futurhythm

I think you yourself previously made the point pretty bluntly and succinctly in the featurette on the... Seeding of a Ghost(?) disc: the UK's relationship with Hong Kong has always been uncaring and detached almost. Because of this, amongst other things, I do think Hong Kong never had a proper release, so to speak, from British colonialism, and the UK from its colonial past in Hong Kong. I'm not making excuses for the Orientalism you refer to, but it's almost a logical result. Ever notice how cricket is practically non-existent in Hong Kong? It's one of the few accepted and almost revered colonial leftovers everywhere else and yet it has no presence in the 'Pearl of the Orient'.

I think the attached image (from 1989 after June 4th) sums up how I feel and why Hong Kong has always been so important to those of us who have friends in the city or just generally feel the UK needs to be responsible for its imperial past (and that goes for everywhere - from Dublin to Durban). The changes that were made to the Nationality Act effectively meant that come the 1985 Sino-British Agreement, Hong Kongers were not permitted to have British citizenship based on their race. I see white people in Hong Kong, with their Western passports, abuse and curse the pro-democracy protests (from desperate, frequently young people, who do not have the ability to just leave) - really, if you mean it then take Chinese citizenship. Renounce that demonic Western passport. No one is stopping you from showing solidarity with Beijing. (Note: at least Donnie Yen actually did this).

Anyway, thanks for the compliment. Yes, that was Seeding of a Ghost.

[Jackie Scanlon]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Respect to Anthony Wong. He speaks English.

Yet usually chooses not to, which I've always found odd, considering he's fluent.

He has family in Australia, who have said they'll open him with open arms should he ever want to move, which is nice to know.

[Markgway]

If these posts are too political, you (mods) can just delete them, you don't have to ban any of us. With that out of the way... I think I've been pretty vocal in my support for Hong Kong democracy and criticism of the CCP. The UK owes Hong Kong Chinese the opportunity to become British citizens and live here. Not sure how exactly it would work, but perhaps a period of 12 months(?) where any Hong Kong resident can apply for free, and assuming there's no criminal convictions be fast tracked thru the system. If Britain can allow millions of Europeans to move here unchecked, then the least they can do is let the Hong Kong people have the same right. It's what we owe them.

[Jackie Scanlon]

Originally Posted by Markgway

If these posts are too political, you (mods) can just delete them, you don't have to ban any of us. With that out of the way... I think I've been pretty vocal in my support for Hong Kong democracy and criticism of the CCP. The UK owes Hong Kong Chinese the opportunity to become British citizens and live here. Not sure how exactly it would work, but perhaps a period of 12 months(?) where any Hong Kong resident can apply for free, and assuming there's no criminal convictions be fast tracked thru the system. If Britain can allow millions of Europeans to move here unchecked, then the least they can do is let the Hong Kong people have the same right. It's what we owe them.

HKers are probably looking at their TV screens at the moment and thinking "yeah, maybe not"...()


(yes yes, I know - CCP is a massive deal even in comparison to Brexit, I was just doing a bit of simple minded gutter levity)

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by Jackie Scanlon

Yet usually chooses not to, which I've always found odd, considering he's fluent.

He does a memorable cockney accent for his English dialogue scenes in Color of Truth.

[calum]

Originally Posted by Markgway

If these posts are too political, you (mods) can just delete them, you don't have to ban any of us. With that out of the way... I think I've been pretty vocal in my support for Hong Kong democracy and criticism of the CCP. The UK owes Hong Kong Chinese the opportunity to become British citizens and live here. Not sure how exactly it would work, but perhaps a period of 12 months(?) where any Hong Kong resident can apply for free, and assuming there's no criminal convictions be fast tracked thru the system. If Britain can allow millions of Europeans to move here unchecked, then the least they can do is let the Hong Kong people have the same right. It's what we owe them.

There's the new BNO citizenship scheme in response to the shredding of the 1985 agreement (supported by all parties including the Scottish and Welsh independence parties) that will permit full rights after five years. There's been some pretty good coverage of it.

It's not ideal (one of my former students bemoaned not having a BNO passport, which has left her stuck even though she was born just before 1997 and I wonder how much of this has been done to try and attract some post-Brexit wealth and incorrectly perceived cheap labour into the UK) and hopefully we will see alterations made, particularly given the events of this year so far.

I don't see how this is political chat per se. Young K-pop fans learn Korean and read about the country because of their interest. Fans of old Hong Kong films not actually being engaged with Hong Kong is quite a unique thing (as far as I can see).

[tigerstyles]

Any chance of some new interviews? Wayne Archers about and few of the other how about Lola?

[chen lung]

Originally Posted by calum

I don't think film or any art can be separated from politics particularly not Hong Kong.

Not sure I agree 100% because I think it depends on each art and whether it bears a political stance. 'Armour of God', for example, doesn't seem to do this, even though it stars individuals not universally adored on account of their politics. People are free to criticise them, though I just think it should be independent from the film itself (seem irrelevant otherwise), or you'd have to call into account and potentially dismiss any produced art on balance purely because of its associations (be it cast/crew/other).

I've privately protested against several perceived wrongs myself, and I'm not being flippant about what you've detailed.

I've been discussing some of this with Jingan Young and recommend her recent(ish) review of Mulan.

I find the 1998 animation of 'Mulan' cringey myself, and I'm not really rushing to see this live remake (for a few reasons).

Maybe the discussion can be continued elsewhere if desired? Just to avoid derailing the main topic (I know it's easy done).

[Fangmacher]

I for one hope the political conversation in here grows louder and more open, especially as HK’s situation continues to worsen. People here in the States have certainly been keeping an eye on the HK demonstrations — we learned the leaf blower method against police tear gas at our own demonstrations from them, for example.

Unfortunately, without one of y’all pointing to resources where we could help otherwise, we don’t have much of a dog in the Brit-HK end of the discussion beyond a bystander’s eyes and ears. I do hope to be proven wrong on this in some manner.

Originally Posted by calum

Fans of old Hong Kong films not actually being engaged with Hong Kong is quite a unique thing (as far as I can see).

From all I’ve ever gathered from observing attempts to quell political discussion on film, I think a lot of it might be an age thing. I’m pretty young compared to the expected demographic for a lot of these types of releases — I was less than a year old when Rumble In The Bronx came out, so I sit right between millennial and zoomer — and the generation I identify with is far more open with acknowledging and reacting to political standings of another entity than I’ve known prior generations to typically be.