Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

I'm thinking more of an option for a DRM free download or something like that if they closed the service. If the go out of business there isn't much that can be done though.

I highly doubt that will ever happen. The best that has happened so far when some services have shut down is that in most instances they worked it out so the content transferred over to another provider IF that provider already offered that same content (something like this happened with Target's former streaming service). For any content that the new/replacement provider did not carry on their service that people were losing access to, they just got some kind of credit that they could use to buy something else. Not much of a solution if they really cared about the content that they lost access to.

As far as people being given DRM free downloads of movies when/if a service shuts down, that's less likely than hell freezing over, monkeys flying out of my butt, and me winning a massive lotto jackpot all in the same day.

[NightMovie901]

I know some of you might think I'm just trolling or have some sort of agenda here but I assure you I do not.

In fact, the more arguments you make for pro-physical the more the old pro-physical me comes out.

So I just finished watching several YouTube videos and reading some articles about 4K UHD discs vs. 4K streaming (particularly Apple TV) and the talk about compression technologies used. Interesting point made was that an uncompressed 2 hour 4K video would be 10 Terabytes so no current disc is handling that. So compression is a given. Next, up they talked about bit-rate and I see a test where an Oppo UHD Blu-ray of Spiderman Homecoming has a bit-rate ranging from 50-70 where the Apple TV 4K was around 25.

So again it seems to come down to the bandwidth. UHD is a clear winner in picture quality vs current Apple TV streams but it doesn't have to be. Increase bandwidth and that issue is resolved.

However, none of this addressed the DRM, the need for a connection, or other advantages physical has over digital.

So you guys got me on the fence a little bit now but ...

So I started researching more and some articles mentioned what I talked about here convenience of digital vs physical. Then an article brought up something I absolutely loathe about blu-rays that didn't exists with DVDs:

Unskippable trailers and other pre-movie content. Nothing irked me more than having to sit through content I didn't want to see when I bought the movie!!!

Is that still an unsolvable issue?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

What I'm saying is that even though you may retain the ability to watch your movies on an older format new movies may never be available on that format.

Then at that point you buy further movies on the newer format?

Even with physical media now, I generally opt for 4K/Blu-Ray combo packs. But if there is no 4K option, then I'll get regular Blu-Ray. If there is no Blu-Ray option (or 4K), then I'll opt for DVD (with DVD being more so for older TV shows, etc.).

If we do get to a point sometime down the road where movies and TV shows stop being released on physical media, then at that point I'll have to figure out what I'm going to do (if anything) to buy content, but the content that I already have on physical media isn't going anywhere, and won't come with the restrictions and uncertainty of digital.


Just because it is possible (but not certain) that some day when I'm old, I won't be able to walk around well and may either need a walker or a wheel chair doesn't mean I'm going to start using a walker or wheel chair now, or purposely injure myself now to force myself to be a condition to have to use one of those things to get around.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

No, I didn’t just say that. I said why would people pay for streaming services when they could get it free on their phones?

I wouldn't watch it on my phone even for free.

I gladly pay for streaming services to watch on my home theater.

If I'm out and about for extended periods of time I take my Kindle or read from the Kindle app but never watch films on a phone outside of nonsense clips on Youtube.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

I know some of you might think I'm just trolling or have some sort of agenda here but I assure you I do not.

In fact, the more arguments you make for pro-physical the more the old pro-physical me comes out.

So I just finished watching several YouTube videos and reading some articles about 4K UHD discs vs. 4K streaming (particularly Apple TV) and the talk about compression technologies used. Interesting point made was that an uncompressed 2 hour 4K video would be 10 Terabytes so no current disc is handling that. So compression is a given. Next, up they talked about bit-rate and I see a test where an Oppo UHD Blu-ray of Spiderman Homecoming has a bit-rate ranging from 50-70 where the Apple TV 4K was around 25.

So again it seems to come down to the bandwidth. UHD is a clear winner in picture quality vs current Apple TV streams but it doesn't have to be. Increase bandwidth and that issue is resolved.

However, none of this addressed the DRM, the need for a connection, or other advantages physical has over digital.

So you guys got me on the fence a little bit now but ...

So I started researching more and some articles mentioned what I talked about here convenience of digital vs physical. Then an article brought up something I absolutely loathe about blu-rays that didn't exists with DVDs:

Unskippable trailers and other pre-movie content. Nothing irked me more than having to sit through content I didn't want to see when I bought the movie!!!

Is that still an unsolvable issue?

Even Apple have their problems though. A big fuss has been kicked up about the fact ITunes might lose all their 4K Fox titles when the Disney merger is finally finished. That’s a pretty big blow if true.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Even Apple have their problems though. A big fuss has been kicked up about the fact ITunes might lose all their 4K Fox titles when the Disney merger is finally finished. That’s a pretty big blow if true.

Yes, I just bought all the Marvel movies and almost all of them are on HD in iTunes even though they have 4K options on Vudu. Vudu is charging $5 more for the UHD version whereas Apple wants to keep the price the same.

Yeah, companies getting along with other companies is always an issue and it generally always sucks for the consumer.

If I lose a single movie or get one downgraded I'm screaming from the hilltops.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Next, up they talked about bit-rate and I see a test where an Oppo UHD Blu-ray of Spiderman Homecoming has a bit-rate ranging from 50-70 where the Apple TV 4K was around 25.

Some UHD Blu-ray titles will go well over 90 Mbps just for the video, audio runs about 5 to 8 Mbps (as seen on my Oppo UDP-203). The Apple speed is the recommended internet speed and is the same as recommended by Netflix for UHD/4K. The actual mux (audio + video) speed for Netflix for UHD/4K used to be 16Mbps, now most are 15.2Mbps.

Next Unskippable trailers and other pre-movie content. Nothing irked me more than having to sit through content I didn't want to see when I bought the movie!!!

Studio/title dependent. The only unskippable content I remember is FBI warnings and some studio’s logo, Lionsgate is the biggest offender. A lot of titles just load to the main menu. There is hacked firmware available for certain players that ignores the locked content, just hard to find info on them.

As to DVD, some of them have unskippable content as well.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Yes, I just bought all the Marvel movies and almost all of them are on HD in iTunes even though they have 4K options on Vudu. Vudu is charging $5 more for the UHD version whereas Apple wants to keep the price the same.

Yeah, companies getting along with other companies is always an issue and it generally always sucks for the consumer.

If I lose a single movie or get one downgraded I'm screaming from the hilltops.

That’s why I would never go digital. Also they can’t muck about with cuts and censorship. I have the disc and it’s in the bag.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Some UHD Blu-ray titles will go well over 90 Mbps just for the video, audio runs about 5 to 8 Mbps (as seen on my Oppo UDP-203). The Apple speed is the recommended internet speed and is the same as recommended by Netflix for UHD/4K. The actual mux (audio + video) speed for Netflix for UHD/4K used to be 16Mbps, now most are 15.2Mbps.

Studio/title dependent. The only unskippable content I remember is FBI warnings and some studio’s logo, Lionsgate is the biggest offender. A lot of titles just load to the main menu. There is hacked firmware available for certain players that ignores the locked content, just hard to find info on them.

As to DVD, some of them have unskippable content as well.

For me, it’s no hassle at all sitting through a couple of trailers. By the time I get myself comfy, the film is ready to start. All good things.......

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Some UHD Blu-ray titles will go well over 90 Mbps just for the video, audio runs about 5 to 8 Mbps (as seen on my Oppo UDP-203). The Apple speed is the recommended internet speed and is the same as recommended by Netflix for UHD/4K. The actual mux (audio + video) speed for Netflix for UHD/4K used to be 16Mbps, now most are 15.2Mbps.

Studio/title dependent. The only unskippable content I remember is FBI warnings and some studio’s logo, Lionsgate is the biggest offender. A lot of titles just load to the main menu. There is hacked firmware available for certain players that ignores the locked content, just hard to find info on them.

As to DVD, some of them have unskippable content as well.

I cannot find it via Google but I know that Blu-Ray added a "bit" to the format so that authors could make content non-skippable but this could be ignored by the firmware of a device.

However, what current 4K player does this? All I have is XBOX One S for 4k and that is totally undesirable because I have that HDMI input all tweaked for gaming and changing that in the TV setting is a royal pain.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

For me, it’s no hassle at all sitting through a couple of trailers. By the time I get myself comfy, the film is ready to start. All good things.......

Not me. I have no patience and the older I get the less patience I have for this sort of thing.

PLUS...I would have to hear my wife saying "just start the movie already...I don't want to watch this" over and over LOL

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Not me. I have no patience and the older I get the less patience I have for this sort of thing.

PLUS...I would have to hear my wife saying "just start the movie already...I don't want to watch this" over and over LOL

Better not get too deep into streaming then. I read tv companies are close to agreeing a deal for a single standard to feed the customer targeted ads. No doubt this includes ads every time you pause content. Also pre rolls. Get ready for a load of extras ads.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Better not get too deep into streaming then. I read tv companies are close to agreeing a deal for a single standard to feed the customer targeted ads. No doubt this includes ads every time you pause content. Also pre rolls. Get ready for a load of extras ads.

I never subscribed to Hulu when they had ads. When they finally added an ad-free option I checked it out.

The one that pisses me off the absolute most is when we watch UFC PPV and they drop an ad for a movie or something in there. I mean we're paying $70 after taxes to watch it and they drop and ad in it? Doesn't happen that often but still.

[NightMovie901]

Searching for 4K Blu-ray players that can ignore the PUOs via firmware change. (frustrating)

Seen this article:

https://bobpariseau.com/blog/2018/6/...r-oh-noes-puos

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

I cannot find it via Google but I know that Blu-Ray added a "bit" to the format so that authors could make content non-skippable but this could be ignored by the firmware of a device.

I have quite a few devices to turn on and make selections, etc. For this I use a URC MX-980 programmable remote and it does this, via macros, including opening the tray on the Oppo. My projector takes a few minutes to warm up so I just put the disc in, close the tray and prepare snacks, drinks, etc. while smooth jazz is playing and by the time I am ready to watch, the main menu will be available.

In the US Netflix added auto preview to their listing and it is a pain for people like me. I have my Sony UBP-X1000ES set so that it outputs 24Hz so when Netflix starts their previews my screen goes black for several seconds as the system re-syncs. As you scroll ← or → the screen goes black if you hover any title for a short period. The problem is the previews can be 24, 25 or 30ZHz so the system does a lot of re-syncs.

I have called Netflix and complained bitterly. I told them the fix was easy, just give us the ability to turn off auto preview. Most users probably does not experience the black screen because their device is set to output 60Hz by default. My workaround, mute the audio, go to the Netflix screen, let it start the preview, scroll very quickly to the desired show and hit enter.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

These deals seem to exclude streaming to a tv.

Do they though?

https://ee.co.uk/entertainment-on-ee/amazon-prime-video

Watch on the big screen

Once you’re subscribed to Prime Video, you could enjoy the ultimate big screen experience by watching it on your TV.

Using your Amazon ID and password, you can log in through a games console, smart TV or streaming device such as Amazon Fire Stick or Apple TV (check here to see which devices are compatible). It’s also possible to cast from the Prime Video app to your TV, using the right equipment.

https://ee.co.uk/why-ee/bt-sport

Make every game a home game

We're bringing you the best live action with the BT Sport app - and letting you watch it on your TV and your phone. Get started - Log in to My EE and go to the 'add-ons' section, or just text SPORT to 150.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Of the thousands of Blu-rays I have watched I have only encountered unskippable trailers once. They were on the Stranger Things Season 1 Blu-ray. And the trailers were skippable on the 4K Blu-ray (which I bought later), so I'll never have to deal with them again.

Are you including trailers you can ff through as skippable?

Because I can't swear to this but I think I've run into BDs with disabled chapter skip during the previews. And I think I've run into rental BDs that disable ff as well but that's so uncommon I'm not even sure I'm remembering it right.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I have quite a few devices to turn on and make selections, etc. For this I use a URC MX-980 programmable remote and it does this, via macros, including opening the tray on the Oppo. My projector takes a few minutes to warm up so I just put the disc in, close the tray and prepare snacks, drinks, etc. while smooth jazz is playing and by the time I am ready to watch, the main menu will be available.

In the US Netflix added auto preview to their listing and it is a pain for people like me. I have my Sony UBP-X1000ES set so that it outputs 24Hz so when Netflix starts their previews my screen goes black for several seconds as the system re-syncs. As you scroll ← or → the screen goes black if you hover any title for a short period. The problem is the previews can be 24, 25 or 30ZHz so the system does a lot of re-syncs.

I have called Netflix and complained bitterly. I told them the fix was easy, just give us the ability to turn off auto preview. Most users probably does not experience the black screen because their device is set to output 60Hz by default. My workaround, mute the audio, go to the Netflix screen, let it start the preview, scroll very quickly to the desired show and hit enter.

I used a MX-700 for a lot of years. I got it when they only sold to home theater installers and places on the internet. I think I got mine from Surf Remote or something like that. Eventually they cut off software updates to average Joes and I was stuck using a homemade cable to a USB/Serial adapter in a virtual machine on my Mac. When I got new gear it became too painful so I ended up getting a Logitech 650 and it does a good enough job.

I still want a AV receiver with an HDMI matrix switcher apparently I'm the only one who wants one.

Yes, some of these new "smart" devices are too smart for their own good.

[octagon]

My extremely first world twelve steps forward one step back pet peeve has to do with audio handshaking.

I've been watching this logo for decades and it's as much a part of HBO shows as the Fox fanfare at the beginning of Star Wars.

HBO Logo HD - YouTube

But now when I watch an HBO BD the first several seconds of audio are invariably lost to handshaking and it drives me freaking nuts

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

I used a MX-700 for a lot of years.

Used a Marantz RC2000 MkII for several years then a URC MX-850 for several years. I really like the MX-980 except when Microsoft does updates and Mobile Device Center stops working and I have to reload Microsoft Sync. I am told the MX-990 does not need Microsoft Sync and Mobile Device Center. I also have several mobile based remote apps (iRule, Roomie, etc.) but never use them because the button remote is much easier to program and use.

Do you use Siri to control your Apple TV? Upstairs I fixed the better half up with Amazon Alexa, a Harmony Hub and Google Home. She likes, “Alexa, begin my day” which turns on several lights, the AVR and selects Pandora or “Hey Google, add bread to my shopping list”.