Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Cook

I am also curious about what happened between Prowse and Lucas. Is it because Lucas didnt use him in ROTS?

Nope. Happened long before that. Prowse was caught leaking what he believed to be Spoilers to the Press.

Lucas and Prowse have never really seen eye to eye. And Prowse has long held a grudge that his voice was dubbed and he wasn't the Unmasked Vader.

He's basically banned from taking part in any official Star Wars functions. It's why he signs things "David Prowse IS Darth Vader".

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Beast

Nope. Happened long before that. Prowse was caught leaking what he believed to be Spoilers to the Press.

He's basically banned from taking part in any official Star Wars functions. It's why he signs things "David Prowse IS Darth Vader".

That was stupid of him.

[Lincoln6Echo]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Look at it this way

Anakin/Hayden Christensen was a Jedi knight

Anakin/Sebastian Shaw was a Sith lord

Now when his ghost return at the end, what make's more sense, the ghost of a Sith lord or the ghost of a Jedi knight...since the movie was called Return Of The Jedi??

Plus the fact that "Sebastian Shaw" never appeared as a Jedi in Jedi robes as the ghost Jedi showed. The last appearance of Anakin as a Jedi (even though he had "become Darth Vader" prior to Mustaphar) was as Hayden Christensen.

In fact, once I had seen the PT, retaining Sebastian as the ghost Anakin (in Jedi robes) didn't make any sense for the above reasons. Anakin died (so-to-speak) as Hayden, not Sebastian Shaw, so having his Jedi ghost appear as someone who was never a Jedi (so-to-speak) would have been wrong.

With that said though, the video compositing of Hayden onto the existing shot in the film, is sloppy. His head and neckline doesn't match the exisiting body. Plus the fact that they used a lousy take to replace him with, with him looking down at first and then looking up just in the nick of time.

[Monolithium]

Originally Posted by CJWilkie

The one inclusion that does not make sense is Hayden Christensen at the end, and it actually does alter the story.

Lucas, as far as I can tell, put Hayden at the end to say when someone with the Force dies, they appear as their last known Jedi self.

But the film is called "Return of the Jedi". To me that implies that Anakin is restored as a Jedi by the end of the film. Originally it was going to be called "Revenge" - i.e. Anakin takes revenge on Palpatine for bringing him to the Dark Side, so I feel the title does exclusively refer to Anakin.

But by including Hayden it basically says that nope, Anakin did not redeem himself in the eyes of the force by bringing balance to it, and in so doing renders the title of the film moot, makes Luke's journey to save his father an unaccomplished goal (Lucas's edit makes it so Anakin died still Sith/Evil), and also closes the film weirdly since Luke never saw what his father looked like until those final moments, so why should he look at Hayden with recognition?

What's even more bizarre is that Lucas picked an Anakin that was post-Tusken Raider Massacre.

[adywan]

Originally Posted by Beast

Nope. Happened long before that. Prowse was caught leaking what he believed to be Spoilers to the Press.

Lucas and Prowse have never really seen eye to eye. And Prowse has long held a grudge that his voice was dubbed and he wasn't the Unmasked Vader.

He's basically banned from taking part in any official Star Wars functions. It's why he signs things "David Prowse IS Darth Vader".

he was never "caught" but Lucas accused Dave Prowse of leaking information to the press during the making of ROTJ. He completely cut him out of any promotion for that film including not inviting him to any of the premiers. Even after the true culprit was revealed he refused to have anything to do with Dave up to this day. The latest excuse from LFL is that he "burned too many bridges", but this just isn't the case at all. They claim that it's because he signs his Star Wars autographs as "Dave Prowse is darth vader", but he signed it this way right from back when Star Wars was released. Hell, even mark hamill on the autograph i got from him in 1977 says "Mark Hamill is Luke Skywalker".They also claim it is because he has been too vocal and bitter about his voice being replaced by James earl Jones and the fact that they didn't use his face when vader was unmasked. But this is just not true. I have had the pleasure of meeting and chatting with Dave on many many occasions. He is one of the nicest guys on the Star Wars circuit. Back in the 80's he was doing a green cross code promotion near me. i was only about 13 at the time and it was just before he was due to start filming ROTJ. He was due to start his break and i asked him for his autograph. Me, dad and my brother were invited back to his trailer because he had some Vader photos which he wanted to sign for us. We were there for his whole hour break and he told us many stories about filming ANH & ESB. Not once was he ever bitter about the voice change. He did say that he was told that they would be getting him over to the states to redub his lines because the mask muffled the voice and that he never even knew about them using a different voice until the premier, but that James Earl Jones voice was perfect for vader.

Now, as he was just about to start filming ROTJ he invited my whole family down to elstree for dinner, which he was going to foot the bill and would get us to meet the rest of the cast. But George stopped this due to secrecy surrounding the film, which i could fully understand. He continued to write to me for years after. Now i would rather meet this guy at any event over and over again than have to ever meet Anthony Daniels again. Man that guy has an ego and a bad attitude.

[Beast]

It's funny that his interviews suggest the complete opposite of what you're saying about him.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Not a valid comparison at all. It's not the changes per se that people hate so much, it's the fact that the originals are not, and will not, be made available for purchase in anything resembling a high quality. No one would care about the changes in the slightest if he'd just release the original, unaltered cuts in a quality equivalent to that which he releases the SE's in. The fans of the originals would just take the changed versions and use them as coasters. The printed word doesn't work like this, they're just words on a page.... it's not a matter of an increased visual/audio quality being necessary to reproduce the original as faithfully as possible. To recreate the original Hobbit it's just a matter of starting up the printing press.

Speaking of the original edition by the way, you can buy a first edition facsimile of the Hobbit. I think they just announced a whole new package a few days ago, actually. You can preorder it here if you like. It chronicles all versions basically.

Why is this being done? Because the Hobbit, as it was originally written, was tremendously important in the literary world. It had a huge impact on Western culture. They are preserving it for posterity. This is the gripe with Star Wars, Lucas refuses to do this. This is why people complain about the changes, it's a complaint about the fact that the only version you can buy in high quality is the changed version (not just merely that they exist.)

LOL

Correct.


I was wondering if ANYBODY was going to mention that were trying to compare a 'book' to a 'movie'.


.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

LOL

Correct.


I was wondering if ANYBODY was going to mention that were trying to compare a 'book' to a 'movie'.


.

And? It's all a form of art. So the comparison is completely valid.

And the original versions are available. LD, VHS, DVD. Just like if you picked up an old old copy of The Hobbit pre-changes.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Beast

And? It's all a form of art. So the comparison is completely valid.

And the original versions are available. LD, VHS, DVD. Just like if you picked up an old old copy of The Hobbit pre-changes.

See below. VVVV

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Not a valid comparison at all. It's not the changes per se that people hate so much, it's the fact that the originals are not, and will not, be made available for purchase in anything resembling a high quality. No one would care about the changes in the slightest if he'd just release the original, unaltered cuts in a quality equivalent to that which he releases the SE's in. The fans of the originals would just take the changed versions and use them as coasters. The printed word doesn't work like this, they're just words on a page.... it's not a matter of an increased visual/audio quality being necessary to reproduce the original as faithfully as possible. To recreate the original Hobbit it's just a matter of starting up the printing press.

Speaking of the original edition by the way, you can buy a first edition facsimile of the Hobbit. I think they just announced a whole new package a few days ago, actually. You can preorder it here if you like. It chronicles all versions basically.

Why is this being done? Because the Hobbit, as it was originally written, was tremendously important in the literary world. It had a huge impact on Western culture. They are preserving it for posterity. This is the gripe with Star Wars, Lucas refuses to do this. This is why people complain about the changes, it's a complaint about the fact that the only version you can buy in high quality is the changed version (not just merely that they exist.)

.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Also, the UOT is not available on DVD. The LD version is available on DVD. It's sourced directly from the LD master, it's letterboxed (non-anamorphic) just as the LD is, and contains all the defects of the LD presentation. To argue that the original Star Wars is available in high-quality is absurd, it isn't. Nowhere even close. He could re-release the LD presentation and store it on a BD, that would hardly be releasing it on BD as we understand it.

Telling people in this day and age to go pick it up on VHS, yahahaha. The VHS is even worse, it's pan and scan with enormous portions of the frame removed.

Please.

Not analogous to a book in the slightest. You can recreate the Hobbit with 100% authenticity and faithfulness simply by reprinting the words as they originally appeared, exactly what they're doing now. See the link I posted, you don't have to buy one of the "original copies." Audio and visual fidelity have nothing whatsoever to do with the printed word.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Technically those aren't even available anymore as it seems all of the DVDs are going out of print.

[georgec]

It's alright, guys - no worries. Cherish memories of the UOT but embrace the upgrades and changes. When you pop in that blu-ray disc you won't even remember or distinguish the version of the film! The less we think about it, the better.

[koreyman]

Originally Posted by Beast

Nope. Happened long before that. Prowse was caught leaking what he believed to be Spoilers to the Press.

Lucas and Prowse have never really seen eye to eye. And Prowse has long held a grudge that his voice was dubbed and he wasn't the Unmasked Vader.

He's basically banned from taking part in any official Star Wars functions. It's why he signs things "David Prowse IS Darth Vader".

Prowse is not banned from starwars functions he is at almost every Star Wars Celebration, & Fan Days which are official functions.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Beast

And? It's all a form of art. So the comparison is completely valid.

And the original versions are available. LD, VHS, DVD. Just like if you picked up an old old copy of The Hobbit pre-changes.

The original version had 35mm/70mm and 4.1 discrete channel 22ips magnetic track audio qualiity. It's not available.


Watching a DVD/LD instead of the movie in high definition . Not the same as reading reproductions of words of a book.

[Deciazulado]

Extra: The colors on the THX LD/DVD versions were also sometimes different from what I saw on the movie screen. Was fun showing the 3 different color renderings of a particular film on 3 different LD editions (friends only had VHS) and asking them to pick the one who was closest to what they had seen on the last showings of the film (this was before 1997 versions were on theaters).

[whaleman]

Originally Posted by adywan

he was never "caught" but Lucas accused Dave Prowse of leaking information to the press during the making of ROTJ. He completely cut him out of any promotion for that film including not inviting him to any of the premiers. Even after the true culprit was revealed he refused to have anything to do with Dave up to this day. The latest excuse from LFL is that he "burned too many bridges", but this just isn't the case at all. They claim that it's because he signs his Star Wars autographs as "Dave Prowse is darth vader", but he signed it this way right from back when Star Wars was released. Hell, even mark hamill on the autograph i got from him in 1977 says "Mark Hamill is Luke Skywalker".They also claim it is because he has been too vocal and bitter about his voice being replaced by James earl Jones and the fact that they didn't use his face when vader was unmasked. But this is just not true. I have had the pleasure of meeting and chatting with Dave on many many occasions. He is one of the nicest guys on the Star Wars circuit. Back in the 80's he was doing a green cross code promotion near me. i was only about 13 at the time and it was just before he was due to start filming ROTJ. He was due to start his break and i asked him for his autograph. Me, dad and my brother were invited back to his trailer because he had some Vader photos which he wanted to sign for us. We were there for his whole hour break and he told us many stories about filming ANH & ESB. Not once was he ever bitter about the voice change. He did say that he was told that they would be getting him over to the states to redub his lines because the mask muffled the voice and that he never even knew about them using a different voice until the premier, but that James Earl Jones voice was perfect for vader.

Now, as he was just about to start filming ROTJ he invited my whole family down to elstree for dinner, which he was going to foot the bill and would get us to meet the rest of the cast. But George stopped this due to secrecy surrounding the film, which i could fully understand. He continued to write to me for years after. Now i would rather meet this guy at any event over and over again than have to ever meet Anthony Daniels again. Man that guy has an ego and a bad attitude.

That is awesome! DP sounds like a really good guy. And GL personally vetoed him taking you out for dinner? Ouch.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by whaleman

That is awesome! DP sounds like a really good guy. And GL personally vetoed him taking you out for dinner? Ouch.

No wonder Ady hates GL















kidding :>

[MadCapsule]

Originally Posted by Beast

And the OT still makes sense on it's own. None of the changes make the movie different storywise. And it can be enjoyed separately.

While it doesn't changed the overall storyline there are 2 changes that drive me nuts about the first film, Star Wars (A New Hope as it was later called).

1: Greedo shooting at Han. Not only is this a bad special effect of Han dodging the blaster shot, but it simply ruins the story arch of Han. With Han being the only one to shoot, it shows Han as being a bit dastardly and not quite a perfectly moral person. A kill or be killed situation if you will. This alone makes Han saving Luke during the death star trench run more unexpected. Han saving Luke's skin instead of thinking of himself is nowhere near as dramatic without Han killing Greedo and Greedo not firing a shot.

2: Han stepping on Jabba's tail. Jabba is supposed to be a mean gangster who feeds a dancer to his pet rancor monster because she won't do what he wants. However Han steps on Jabba's tail and he simply grimaces and goes about his rant about poor Greedo. This totally undermines the fear that Han should really have for Jabba. If Han can step on his tail and not even get a warning out of it, then Jabba really doesn't deserve the reputation that the characters in the films says that he has much less the fear of the deathmark on Han's head placed there by Jabba.

I understand Lucas wanted this scene in the original movie. It simply doesn't work in the special editions. Sometimes things should be left as is instead of tinkering with them. Every time Lucas changes something about the story he makes it worse not better. I'm on the fence about the new special effects shots that have nothing to do with story, but all in all I wouldn't care at all if the unaltered trilogy were available to me in whatever the latest medium was at the time.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by georgec

When you pop in that blu-ray disc you won't even remember or distinguish the version of the film! The less we think about it, the better.

Ahahaha.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Ahahaha.

I'm serious. Maybe the concerns have gone too far in anticipation. It's Star Wars on blu-ray, right? If the films look good overall then maybe small changes here and there won't make a big difference.