The Fifth Element 4K UHD (1997) (20th Anniversary Edition)

[Member-425016]

A lot of hate for the Sony disc. You couldn't pry the thing out of my hand at gunpoint. I love the disc, and won't be double dipping.

[sleeman]

Originally Posted by David M

The audio for the StudioCanal disc was encoded in 2020 (less than 4 months ago, actually) and used the latest version of the Dolby Atmos encoder, which uses some kind of audibly lossless noise-shaping process to achieve better compression efficiency (the data rate savings are apparently in the region of 30-40%). I'd be curious to hear both versions compared side by side, but you're making a mistake if you look at the audio bitrate alone.

Full disclosure, I encoded it.

Thanks for your feedback. There is no question you have done a great job with this disc, especially with the picture. It is definitely Superior. My kudos to you and I'll be looking out for discs encoded specifically by FIM in the future. It's just the audio side of things on this disc which Is not on par with the other disc. I compared side by side, not just the bitrate. Just my opinion.

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by Filmfan73

A lot of hate for the Sony disc. You couldn't pry the thing out of my hand at gunpoint. I love the disc, and won't be double dipping.

Don't worry, nobody's going to try and take your Sony disc.

[hoejunter]

Originally Posted by Fat Phil

Don't worry, nobody's going to try and take your Sony disc.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by Fat Phil

Don't worry, nobody's going to try and take your Sony disc.

What if his Sony disc will kill someone?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

What if his Sony disc will kill someone?

It's sharp enough that's for sure, arf arf

[Member-425016]

I guess I'm just not as susceptible to "sharpening" as I am to DNR, or color timing. The settings on my Z9D are pretty standard, as well as my Panasonic UB9000. As being compared to the digitally manipulated look of Back to the Future BD, I don't even think it is in the same time zone of that release. It looked bloody awful.

[Rizor]

I received my copy of the UK disc yesterday. Never bothered watching my US disc so this disc should make for an entertaining rewatch.

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by David M

The audio for the StudioCanal disc was encoded in 2020 (less than 4 months ago, actually) and used the latest version of the Dolby Atmos encoder, which uses some kind of audibly lossless noise-shaping process to achieve better compression efficiency (the data rate savings are apparently in the region of 30-40%). I'd be curious to hear both versions compared side by side, but you're making a mistake if you look at the audio bitrate alone.

Full disclosure, I encoded it.

Hello David. I never knew you browse the forum. Thanks for clarifying the bitrate difference. On a side note, now that I got your attention. How does the Christine master differ from the Sony?

As an audiophile and videophile, I really appreciate your work. Thank you!

[David M]

Thanks! The master for Carlotta's version of Christine should be the same as the one used on the Sony disc.

[lgans316]

https://www.hdnumerique.com/dossiers...e-element.html

[Ssj3 Goku]

Need to hear more opinions on the atmos mix. Have the remastered blu ray but never got around to getting the 4k version so im definitely interested in this one.

[vincentric]

Don't own the SC disc yet just from checking out the comparison caps the SC disc looks a lot better to me containing finer grain and no sharpening that looks more natural and pleasing to the eye (to mine at least) over the Sony disc. The sfx shots in particular (comparison 12) look a whole lot better in the SC version. As for the color I'd like to see it in HDR10/DV first on my setup before making final judgement on it. Curious to hear how the sound will compare on my setup as well. All in all looking forward to getting the SC disc very soon, wish David M could encode every movie on disc.

Edit: Forgot to mention also enjoy how the SC version eliminates the edge ringing visible near the top and bottom of the letterbox bars, though the image is slightly zoomed in so am not sure if that's part of the reason. Interesting nonetheless.

[patrickkevin]

The disc they released a couple of years back is widely panned across most review sites. A European 4k version came out this summer that reportedly fixed the DNR and most of the other issues. Since Sony has done a lot of stellar 4k releases, assume the one that's upcoming will be a corrected version.

[trekky76]

Huh? There is no corrected version in the works AFAIK. Each distributor does their own grading and we've seen before Sony editions of BR2049 and Arrival were different. Nothing that needs correction as it's just up to a subjective opinion what you prefer.

[crushersteve]

So I'm just curious...
So why do I want to pay 30 bucks (ps5 Essentials) for a movie that I own already? Is there any differences except the box?
Please let me know...i can't really find an answer here or on line?

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by crushersteve

So I'm just curious...
So why do I want to pay 30 bucks (ps5 Essentials) for a movie that I own already? Is there any differences except the box?
Please let me know...i can't really find an answer here or on line?

No, you've got it. Just the stupid box.

[fizban11]

Originally Posted by David M

The audio for the StudioCanal disc was encoded in 2020 (less than 4 months ago, actually) and used the latest version of the Dolby Atmos encoder, which uses some kind of audibly lossless noise-shaping process to achieve better compression efficiency (the data rate savings are apparently in the region of 30-40%). I'd be curious to hear both versions compared side by side, but you're making a mistake if you look at the audio bitrate alone.

Full disclosure, I encoded it.

David M, I'm not sure where to post this for The Fifth Element 4K UHD (StudioCanal UK) version, but since you encoded the disc, I guess this is as high as it goes. My motives are pure here...I'm not trying to be facetious in any way. I simply seek knowledge and understanding. I'm an audiophile and movie buff who has wanted to replicate movie theater sound since I was in high school in 1987 (4 track dolby Pioneer AVR), going back to when I was a kid trying to achieve the same pleasure I derived from watching Star Wars in the theaters.

I purchased the 4K UHD SC Version of "The Fifth Element" after reading reviews that showed it had Dolby Vision in addition to the HDR10 on the US Version. According to those same reviews, the audio track for ATMOS is supposed to be the exact same or nearly identical as the 2017 US 20th Anniversary release, but I'm finding it to be different. I'm a little perplexed by this. And I don't mean just bitrate.

Initially, MakeMKV 1.15.3 shows both audio tracks to be the same for both discs:
Track information
Type: Audio
Name: Surround 7.1 (English)
Language: English
Codec: TrueHD Atmos
Channels: 8
Channel layout: 7.1
Sample rate: 48000
Bits per sample: 24
MKV Flags: Default

After ripping, MediaInfo for the UK StudioCanal version shows this:
Audio
ID : 2
ID in the original source medium : 4352 (0x1100)
Format : MLP FBA
Format/Info: Meridian Lossless Packing FBA
Commercial name: Dolby TrueHD
Codec ID: A_TRUEHD
Duration: 2 h 6 min
Bit rate mode: Variable
Bit rate: 3 611 kb/s
Maximum bit rate: 4 341 kb/s
Channel(s): 8 channels
Channel(s)_Original: 6 channels
ChannelLayout_Original: L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate: 48.0 kHz
Frame rate: 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
Bit depth: 24 bits
Compression mode: Lossless
Stream size: 3.20 GiB (4%)
Title: Surround 7.1
Language: English
Default: Yes
Forced: No
Original source medium: Blu-ray

The MediaInfo for the US Version shows this:
Audio #1
ID: 2
ID in the original source medium: 4352 (0x1100)
Format: MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info: Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name: Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID: A_TRUEHD
Duration: 2 h 5 min
Bit rate mode: Variable
Bit rate: 5 666 kb/s
Maximum bit rate: 9 144 kb/s
Channel(s): 8 channels
Channel layout: L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate: 48.0 kHz
Frame rate: 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
Bit depth: 24 bits
Compression mode: Lossless
Stream size: 4.98 GiB (10%)
Title: Surround 7.1
Language: English
Default: Yes
Forced: No
Original source medium: Blu-ray
Number of dynamic objects: 11
Bed channel count: 1 channel
Bed channel configuration: LFE

PLEX then shows that there is a base 5.1 TrueHD for the SC Version, and a base 7.1 TrueHD for the US Version.

1) the stream size is 64% less from the US version (which you stated is due to better efficiency)
2) Bitrate is 63.75% less
3) Max bitrate is 47.47% less
4) PLEX only sees a 5.1 base vs. a 7.1 base (MediaINFO does not show any back speakers for surround)
5) MediaINFO does not show ANY objects encoded in the stream

When I am playing the movie, it was noticeably different, which is why I started digging.

Please help me to understand this? I can understand calling something ATMOS if it is a 5.1.4 or a 5.2.4 vs 7.1.4 or 7.2.4 or even 9.2.4. But MediaINFO doesn't even show objects are embedded. So what gives? Are we seeing the first disc encoded with ATMOS that is radically different for how encoding has been on prior discs and therefore MediaINFO and PLEX cannot interpret the disc audio stream?

Regards and Thanks, Ryan

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally Posted by fizban11

Please help me to understand this? I can understand calling something ATMOS if it is a 5.1.4 or a 5.2.4 vs 7.1.4 or 7.2.4 or even 9.2.4. But MediaINFO doesn't even show objects are embedded.

Hmmm...

I also have the StudioCanal (Dolby Vision) version. After backing-up the disc into the (transport) .m2ts container, and de-muxing all the streams, MediaInfo reports the following about the 'elementary' audio stream: -

General
Complete name                            : \\SYNOLOGY_NAS\My HD Movies\UHD Movies\The Fifth Element [1997]\Audio - Dolby TrueHD and AC3.thd+ac3
Format                                   : AC-3 MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3 + Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name                          : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
File size                                : 3.75 GiB
Duration                                 : 13 h 59 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 640 kb/s
FileExtension_Invalid                    : ac3

Audio
Format                                   : AC-3 MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3 + Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name                          : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Duration                                 : 13 h 59 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 640 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 6 342 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 3.75 GiB (100%)
Service kind                             : Complete Main
Number of dynamic objects                : 11
Bed channel count                        : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration                : LFE

As you can see, Atmos is indeed present.

Cheers

[Geoff D]

Yup, I'm no genius boy detective but that the SC disc was encoded with a newer form of the Atmos encoder suggests that mediainfo (or some installs of it) may not be up to speed with reading it properly.