Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

3D - Blu ray (don't really have a choice with that one)
4K - Digital (so I can watch it on my phone as well a on the TV)
Must own classics - (for example The Matrix) 4K Blu ray disk

The dilemma is when there is a movie that would look great in 4K and 3D, like Infinity War, which version do you get? Getting both would be expansive.

Personally, I buy the 3D version first, as I enjoy 3D so much, and also because the 3D editions are more likely to become hard to find. I often import the 3D edition from amazon.uk as they are usually much more affordable than their domestic counterpart, if there even is a domestic counterpart. Often these imported 3D editions are region free, but seeing as I have a region free player that potential issue does not concern me.

Sometimes there are import editions that include 4K, 3D, and regular blu-ray all in a single combo pack. While that is ideal, it is not common.

If I also want to add the 4K edition, I will do so, but I might wait for a sale price. 4K editions go on sale sooner and more frequently and they are much easier to find. 3D editions go on sale, too, but you might have to wait a long time for that to happen and they might become scarce while you wait.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

Can't believe this thread is still going

[Show spoiler]

This thread is as hard to kill off as are the discs themselves.

[4K fanatic]

Not even a question. It’s digital. Why not ask if you prefer your cds to your Itunes. Netflix saw this years ago and split their dvd business away from their more popular streaming plan. Apple tv rents/sells 4K movies for same price as HD versions. 99% of people don’t care about the minimal upgrade that physical UHD bitrate may have over 4K streaming ( at the moment). Apple tv 4K has processors to make it look even better( think there was a Cnet article on how good Apple tv 4K is and possibly how Apple is still selling it for a loss)- like game consoles do/did. I have 100mbps internet, with gigabyte (999mbps) available. Bye Blu-ray. No company is going to invest billions of dollars into a physical media disc that can reach gigabyte speed but some streaming company will fir 10K movies or betond). I don’t care if I’m only getting 15-20mbps 4K from Netflix or my Apple tv 4K purchases/rentals. Apple has a sweet price deal, where I can pay $20 to buy a 4K movie, instead of $30 or so for a UHD Blu-ray. $5-6 for rental instead if $10 everywhere else. I’m looking for places to sell my Blu-ray movies, then will buy some again from Apple. Blu-ray.com needs to shift to digital somehow ( though with your url, you’re in trouble).

[Vilya]

Not even a consideration, it's physical media.

Besides, physical gives me the digital copy as a bonus if I ever need to go slumming while away from home.

Physical gives me actual ownership; my content never disappears, even temporarily, and it can not be revised at the whim of the studios.

The price difference, when there even is much of one at all, is worth it to enthusiasts; not everyone goes though life looking for the cheapest of everything. The best quality matters to many of us, enough so that discs are still with us. Never gave one hot damn about what the majority of people choose to do as long as there are enough of us who care about and want the best. We're still here and we aren't going away.

I never had iTunes and I never will. I do have a nice collection of CDs and they sound better. They still make 'em, too.

Streaming providers have not improved their bitrates since 2015 and they have no incentive to do so; their low rent clientele are happy with what they get already; there is just no need for them to do anything.

I may have to spend a little more, but I get more as well. I get the digital code, too, not that I have much use for them. I own my discs and they do not get randomly revised whenever some studio executive has a fit of political correctness nor do they ever disappear from my collection. I am never dependent upon an ever more expensive internet service that is reliably unreliable. I do not have to contend with overtaxed servers from streaming providers that are unable to meet their demand, and too bloody cheap to fix the issue, especially during prime viewing hours. Discs don't buffer. Not ever. All I need is electricity, my gear, and my discs and I am enjoying a perfectly stable viewing and listening experience that is usually in the highest available quality every single time that I press "play" on my remote.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by 4K fanatic

Not even a question. It’s digital. Why not ask if you prefer your cds to your Itunes. Netflix saw this years ago and split their dvd business away from their more popular streaming plan. Apple tv rents/sells 4K movies for same price as HD versions. 99% of people don’t care about the minimal upgrade that physical UHD bitrate may have over 4K streaming ( at the moment). Apple tv 4K has processors to make it look even better( think there was a Cnet article on how good Apple tv 4K is and possibly how Apple is still selling it for a loss)- like game consoles do/did. I have 100mbps internet, with gigabyte (999mbps) available. Bye Blu-ray. No company is going to invest billions of dollars into a physical media disc that can reach gigabyte speed but some streaming company will fir 10K movies or betond). I don’t care if I’m only getting 15-20mbps 4K from Netflix or my Apple tv 4K purchases/rentals. Apple has a sweet price deal, where I can pay $20 to buy a 4K movie, instead of $30 or so for a UHD Blu-ray. $5-6 for rental instead if $10 everywhere else. I’m looking for places to sell my Blu-ray movies, then will buy some again from Apple. Blu-ray.com needs to shift to digital somehow ( though with your url, you’re in trouble).

No it ******* doesn’t. This is Blu-Ray.com not settling for inferior.com.

Also, as a 4K fanatic, why would you not crave the best 4K quality (4K Disc)

I find it a weird attitude.

[Matthew.H]

Originally Posted by 4K fanatic

Not even a question. It’s digital. Why not ask if you prefer your cds to your Itunes. Netflix saw this years ago and split their dvd business away from their more popular streaming plan. Apple tv rents/sells 4K movies for same price as HD versions. 99% of people don’t care about the minimal upgrade that physical UHD bitrate may have over 4K streaming ( at the moment). Apple tv 4K has processors to make it look even better( think there was a Cnet article on how good Apple tv 4K is and possibly how Apple is still selling it for a loss)- like game consoles do/did. I have 100mbps internet, with gigabyte (999mbps) available. Bye Blu-ray. No company is going to invest billions of dollars into a physical media disc that can reach gigabyte speed but some streaming company will fir 10K movies or betond). I don’t care if I’m only getting 15-20mbps 4K from Netflix or my Apple tv 4K purchases/rentals. Apple has a sweet price deal, where I can pay $20 to buy a 4K movie, instead of $30 or so for a UHD Blu-ray. $5-6 for rental instead if $10 everywhere else. I’m looking for places to sell my Blu-ray movies, then will buy some again from Apple. Blu-ray.com needs to shift to digital somehow ( though with your url, you’re in trouble).

To your CD vs iTunes question my answer would be CD's as the sound quality is superior compared to most download/streaming options.
Streaming UHD video is close to disc but the audio options are a joke compared to disc. Plus streaming HD/UHD is completely reliant on high speed internet. Some locations can't even stream HD video without buffering and the only fix for them is the provider investing in the infrastructure which will only happen if the provider can get a good return on that investment. Whilst some locations will get upgraded there are smaller communities which may be stuck with slow speeds for the foreseeable future due to there smaller customer base.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by 4K fanatic

Not even a question. It’s digital. Why not ask if you prefer your cds to your Itunes. Netflix saw this years ago and split their dvd business away from their more popular streaming plan. Apple tv rents/sells 4K movies for same price as HD versions. 99% of people don’t care about the minimal upgrade that physical UHD bitrate may have over 4K streaming ( at the moment). Apple tv 4K has processors to make it look even better( think there was a Cnet article on how good Apple tv 4K is and possibly how Apple is still selling it for a loss)- like game consoles do/did. I have 100mbps internet, with gigabyte (999mbps) available. Bye Blu-ray. No company is going to invest billions of dollars into a physical media disc that can reach gigabyte speed but some streaming company will fir 10K movies or betond). I don’t care if I’m only getting 15-20mbps 4K from Netflix or my Apple tv 4K purchases/rentals. Apple has a sweet price deal, where I can pay $20 to buy a 4K movie, instead of $30 or so for a UHD Blu-ray. $5-6 for rental instead if $10 everywhere else. I’m looking for places to sell my Blu-ray movies, then will buy some again from Apple. Blu-ray.com needs to shift to digital somehow ( though with your url, you’re in trouble).

I generally get my 4K discs for under $20 because I wait for them to go on sale. Plus I get a digital copy and superior audio and picture. The best of both worlds for cheaper than buying digitally.

I still buy CD's for albums I really want. Again, superior audio compared to woefully inadequate streaming. My brother is a music producer and refuses to stream music when listening at home because the quality is so poor. I only use streaming audio when I work out for convenience.

I recently ditched cable to save some money and went full streaming for my TV shows. There are 3 of us in the house that stream from Netflix, YouTube and other services, as well as my son's online gaming. I got a notification from my ISP that I went over my 1TB data limit and had to pay extra to continue watching TV for the remainder of the month. I could go into a rant about corporate greed but it's not worth it.

Streaming my be convenient but that is the end of the list when it comes to advantages over other forms of media. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

No it ******* doesn’t. This is Blu-Ray.com not settling for inferior.com.

Also, as a 4K fanatic, why would you not crave the best 4K quality (4K Disc)

I find it a weird attitude.

Not really weird, just all too common. Many people are willing to sacrifice quality and true ownership for convenience and economy.

They do not read the terms of service or the EULAs that govern their digital content; they naively trust the benevolence of these providers despite the deliberate inclusion of specific language that allows them to modify, even remove, content at will without any compensation to their customers. The providers reserve the right to screw them over, but their customers think they will at least get a kiss first.

International customers in particular are learning a hard lesson with UV closing as they scramble to save what they can of their digital libraries. Domestic customers just tell themselves it could never happen to them.

I read about digital titles disappearing routinely, usually just temporarily, but still what an aggravation! They have to disconnect and reconnect their accounts often in order to get everything to come back and even then it sometimes comes back in the wrong resolution. I would hate having to monitor my collection to make sure that what I paid for was still available to me. It would be maddening with a collection of my size and damn near a full time job.

Digital titles get modified when different editions come along, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse, but always without the customer's choice. Wax work version of Terminator 2 is one such example as it replaced earlier less DNR'd versions.

"Stark Raving Dad" is now gone for many digital customers of The Simpsons. I'd be stark raving mad if that happened to me, but many digital customers just bend over and take it. They do not see it as a precedent for what can happen, but tell themselves it is an isolated occurrence.

Cheap. Convenient. Acceptable quality under ideal network conditions. They settle for this and surrender control over their content with their ostrich head-in-the-sand belief that no large company would ever do them wrong. It is this misplaced trust that I find to be the most curious of all.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by 4K fanatic

Netflix saw this years ago and split their dvd business away from their more popular streaming plan.

Not true, Netflix was a streaming company from the start hence the name, Netflix. The disc rental business was just a way for them to build capital to start the streaming service. I find it amusing that almost 11 years later a few million disc subs contribution profits are close to what 130 million streaming subs contribution profits are.

[Vilya]

On a happy note, I just ordered 12 more titles on disc. Among them I pre-ordered Alien 4K, 2 cuts, for a mere $14.96! How is that anything but a downright steal?

I spent an average of $20.87, tax included, per title and that includes four titles on 4K, four 3D blu-rays, and four 2D blu-rays. A bargain by any measure!

[Wendell R. Breland]

Anyone notice how streamers rarely mention terms like DCI-P3, Dolby Vision, HDR10, HDR10+, HLG, MaxCLL, MaxFALL or Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, DTS Master Audio and DTS:X

It appears they will never learn why some of us will not settle for less. I know some streaming titles have Dolby Vision but does anyone know how these titles were graded if the title was not mastered for UHD Blu-ray? As in a human colorist or done on an AI computer.

I know most streaming titles with Dolby Digital + has a bit rate of 192 Kbps with Dolby Atmos titles somewhat higher. On Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray it is quite common to see the audio running 5 Mbps with peaks hitting 10 to 15 Mbps.

Someone recently posted that the Apple TV 4K does not pass MaxCLL and MaxFALL for their UHD streams and it dorks with the audio on titles with Dolby Atmos.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Anyone notice how streamers rarely mention terms like DCI-P3, Dolby Vision, HDR10, HDR10+, HLG, MaxCLL, MaxFALL or Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, DTS Master Audio and DTS:X

It appears they will never learn why some of us will not settle for less. I know some streaming titles have Dolby Vision but does anyone know how these titles were graded if the title was not mastered for UHD Blu-ray? As in a human colorist or done on an AI computer.

I know most streaming titles with Dolby Digital + has a bit rate of 192 Kbps with Dolby Atmos titles somewhat higher. On Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray it is quite common to see the audio running 5 Mbps with peaks hitting 10 to 15 Mbps.

Someone recently posted that the Apple TV 4K does not pass MaxCLL and MaxFALL for their UHD streams and it dorks with the audio on titles with Dolby Atmos.

The convenience and economy minded don't concern themselves with any of that. These are quality considerations for those who value the best home video and audio presentation possible.

As for the audio, many listen with their TV's speakers or maybe a soundbar at most. Some even listen exclusively with cheap wireless headphones. They never cared about the best audio quality, anymore than they do with the video, and they likely never will. It just gots to be "good enough." They just wanna save a nickel and be able to watch stuff wherever they happen to be with whatever device they happen to have with them.

[RefractiveIndex]

Originally Posted by 4K fanatic

Netflix saw this years ago and split their dvd business away from their more popular streaming plan.

Indeed, they split the profitable part of their business away from the financial black hole.

[RefractiveIndex]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The convenience and economy minded don't concern themselves with any of that.

99% of the time I think it's more about not knowing any better than anything to do with convenience or thriftiness.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by RefractiveIndex

99% of the time I think it's more about not knowing any better than anything to do with convenience or thriftiness.

Sure, but if they had an interest in higher end video and audio performance in the first place, they would learn about many of these terms along the way to satisfying that interest.

The audio side is by far the most neglected part. Many people will spring for the biggest TV that their budget and space will accommodate and some of that number will spend a little more for an inexpensive soundbar. Then they are done.

People talk about niches a lot around here and I would wager that having a home theater with a true surround sound system is also very much a niche.

Anecdotally, and we all know how valuable anecdotes are , I am the only person that I know outside from this forum that has such a system. Everyone that I know listens with either their TV's speakers or with a basic soundbar.

I even know a music therapist who is such a tightwad that even she won't buy a decent audio system, not for watching movies and not even for listening to music. She can read and write music and she plays a half dozen instruments, but she uses a boombox for her CDs and the built-in speakers with her TV.

I have a friend who is a millionaire and he could easily afford an awesome system, but he has no interest in one. A 65" TV and the built-in speakers it came with are good enough.

People value different things, but they also tend to know a considerable amount about those things that they do value. They know their hobbies. Home theaters are just not commonly among them from what I have observed.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

This is an excellent article:

https://www.collectionconnections.co...KR-w3VzP-XM44I

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

This is an excellent article:

https://www.collectionconnections.co...KR-w3VzP-XM44I

That Article sounds like Vilya, just pulling in things to justify the conclusions. I say Digital is Digital, don't separate one from the other. There are various levels of Quality depending on your set up. Just don't put down Digital Streaming until you look at your own set up. We all go back to "Good Enough" depending on our set up. What is the Gold Standard in Physical, and who measures up to that? Digital Streaming will also have Gold Standards, but who will measure these?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

That Article sounds like Vilya, just pulling in things to justify the conclusions. I say Digital is Digital, don't separate one from the other. There are various levels of Quality depending on your set up. Just don't put down Digital Streaming until you look at your own set up. We all go back to "Good Enough" depending on our set up. What is the Gold Standard in Physical, and who measures up to that? Digital Streaming will also have Gold Standards, but who will measure these?

I am happy to sound like that article; the article is sensible and it sounds far better than what you sound like on your best day.

Saying "digital is digital" is as meaningless and as stupid now as the first time that you uttered it. Many have told you so, too, but here you are blathering about it yet again...

A 44.1khz 192 Kpbs MP3 file at 6.86 MB in size and a 174 khz 24 bit Flac file at 170 MB in size are both digital, but the quality is vastly different between them. A paltry 16 Mpbs 4K stream from Netflix pales in comparison to a 4K UHD disc with bitrates up to 128 Mbps. Yet, you can't comprehend any of this. Ever.

4k streaming quality is less than 4K disc quality by every objective measure. 4K streaming delivers a small fraction of both the video and audio bitrates of a 4K disc. My gear, your gear, nor anyone else's, will change that simple fact.

The quality of the source, streaming or disc, is independent of the set-up being used. A 4K disc will still be in higher quality than a 4K stream no matter the equipment being utilized. A 16 Mbps bitrate 4K stream does not get better because I happen to have hard wired 135 Mbps internet service; I still just get 16 Mbps from Netflix. A 4k disc is still a 4K disc whether I play it in a $150 player or a $1000 player. Better and well calibrated gear will allow you to enjoy more of the maximum potential of a given source and to compensate, somewhat, for flaws in the source, but the source itself does not change quality because of the gear being used.

I use streaming instead of cable TV. I use it to try content before deciding on whether or not to buy it on disc. It has a place in my viewing regimen, but that place is definitely in the backseat to discs. Streaming can look quite good, network variables permitting, but it often sounds quite mediocre, and it virtually never looks or sounds better than its disc equivalent.

No one here needs lectures from you about home theater set-ups when all you use is a TV, a six year-old blu-ray player that you seldom use, and a pair of wireless headphones. Even on your set-up, a blu-ray will exceed the quality of a HD stream and in many cases even that of a 4K stream. As you can not watch a 4k disc on your set-up at all, you are in no position to even comment on these comparisons. You are not equipped to discuss this subject, materially or cognitively.

[johndoyle123]

Originally Posted by RefractiveIndex

Indeed, they split the profitable part of their business away from the financial black hole.

Behave

It’s hardly a black hole .... yeesh some of you need a reality check on what that
Even means from a financial sense

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by johndoyle123

Behave

It’s hardly a black hole .... yeesh some of you need a reality check on what that
Even means from a financial sense

Netflix streaming has not yet made a profit, they are billions of dollars in debt.