Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by johndoyle123

It’s hardly a black hole

Click here and look at the bottom line. Its real simple, Netflix is spending more on streaming than they are taking in. They just increased their debt load, again. Now their debt is many billions and their legal obligations for future content is many billions more.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I say Digital is Digital, don't separate one from the other.

Have a look at the logic analyzer below and tell me if you can pick out the data stream from a CD, a transport stream (the mux could contain several program streams), a spreadsheet loading or an EDL loading from a paper tape reader. Of course you can not, but they are all digital data and they sure as heck do not contain the same information.

A little learning exercise for you (or anyone with Netflix streaming). The object is to determine how many files there are for a single show and how the resolution changes with each. Search for Test Patterns, select Season 1, Episode 1 and play from the beginning. In the upper right corner it will display the current data rate and resolution. Also pay close attention to the spoke patterns located in the four corners, they should become better defined as the resolution changes upwards. Count each data rate and resolution change. Be sure to play from the beginning if you need to repeat this exercise.

If there are responses then I will post more info on the findings.

[Show spoiler]

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Click here and look at the bottom line. Its real simple, Netflix is spending more on streaming than they are taking in. They just increased their debt load, again. Now their debt is many billions and their legal obligations for future content is many billions more.

If I am reading that link right, Netflix's net income in 2018 was 4.5 times greater than what it was in 2014 coming in at $1.21 billion. Pretty impressive on the surface.

In that same time frame, however, their debt has gone up ten-fold to $3.93 billion. They owe 3.25 times as much as their net income for 2018. That link shows a sheet soaking in red ink.

I am no expert on business finance, but that would be a precarious position for any individual to be in. Still, someone keeps lending them money, and lots of it, so their lenders must have confidence in their ability to repay it. If they can't cover their debts, maybe Disney, or some such, will buy them out in a fire sale down the road.

[Vilya]

I just came across this annoying oddity that a digital streaming iTunes customer is having while watching their digital copy of one of the extended editions of The Lord Of The Rings movies via Apple TV 4K. They are getting two sets of subtitles when the elves are speaking elvish, one set that is part of the movie itself and the second set from iTunes that they apparently can not disable. Three people have posted reporting the same issue thus far. The double subtitles are an issue unique to iTunes apparently.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...46&postcount=1

What fun, eh? Double the subtitles! Hopefully, each set uses a different font, size, and text color to make it more interesting.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Another new UHD Blu-ray player for 2019, the Sony UBP-X1100ES, info here. IMHO the X800 and X1000 by Sony will be phased out. At any rate, plenty of new players to chose from.

Panasonic DP-UB820, $500
Panasonic DP-UB9000, $1,000
Pioneer BDP-LX500, $1,000
Sony UBP-X800M2, $TBA
Sony UBP-X1000ES*, $500
Sony UBP-X1100ES, $TBA

LG UP870*, $160
Panasonic DP-UB450, $??
Sony UBP-X700, $180
Sony UBP-X800*, $200

*No Dolby Vision

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Another new UHD Blu-ray player for 2019, the Sony UBP-X1000ES, info here. IMHO the X800 and X1000 by Sony will be phased out. At any rate, plenty of new players to chose from.

Panasonic DP-UB820, $500
Panasonic DP-UB9000, $1,000
Pioneer BDP-LX500, $1,000
Sony UBP-X800M2, $TBA
Sony UBP-X1000ES*, $500
Sony UBP-X1100ES, $TBA

LG UP870*, $160
Panasonic DP-UB450, $??
Sony UBP-X700, $180
Sony UBP-X800*, $200

*No Dolby Vision

Looks like the sky is still firmly in place overhead; the Chicken Littles can catch their breath until their next panic attack.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Click here and look at the bottom line. Its real simple, Netflix is spending more on streaming than they are taking in. They just increased their debt load, again. Now their debt is many billions and their legal obligations for future content is many billions more.

Not commenting with any of the other points but just happened to click the financials link because I was curious. I learned to read and create these in a college accounting but I'm a bit rusty but pretty much can read the main things correctly.

Cash Flow is different than the balance sheet and income statement. It is more of a guide of how liquid they are.

At a glance, Netflix has assets worth $26 Billion Dollars and liabilities of about 21 Billion so they are worth more than what they owe. The shareholders own 5.25 Billion in Equity.

As far as income goes it looks like they made 1.21 Billion in profit on on 15.8 Billion in revenue in 2018 making it their best year ever.

So Netflix is definitely making money.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Vilya

What fun, eh? Double the subtitles! Hopefully, each set uses a different font, size, and text color to make it more interesting.

And it's also great for people who want to read them more than once!

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Not true, Netflix was a streaming company from the start hence the name, Netflix. The disc rental business was just a way for them to build capital to start the streaming service. I find it amusing that almost 11 years later a few million disc subs contribution profits are close to what 130 million streaming subs contribution profits are.

Going to have to disagree with this one too. Movies via the Internet (i.e. NetFlix) was all about discs for about 10 years solid and definitely that was the plan at the very start.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The 1000ES has been out for quite awhile.

Thanks for catching that. Have had the X1000ES (and 203) 19" rack mounted for awhile. One of these days I will do some pictures

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Going to have to disagree with this one too.

That is fine, I was just repeating some of Hastings postings from many years ago.

Do you read Netflix SEC filings? They are really good at playing with the numbers. If they made a profit then why did they not pay any federal income tax?

Don't get me wrong, I like Netflix, been with them since the early days of disc-by-mail and later streaming. Have had both plans for a long time.

We invested a good bit in their stock sometime back, once it doubled in price we sold it, we are not greedy.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Going to have to disagree with this one too. Movies via the Internet (i.e. NetFlix) was all about discs for about 10 years solid and definitely that was the plan at the very start.

Netflix was founded in 1997 and their initial plan was to rent and sell dvds online delivering both by mail.

"Netflix's initial business model included DVD sales and rental by mail, but Hastings abandoned the sales about a year after the company's founding to focus on the DVD rental business."

"Netflix was launched on April 14, 1998, as the world's first online DVD rental store, with only 30 employees and 925 titles available, which was almost the entire catalogue of DVDs in print at the time."

"In February 2007, the company delivered its billionth DVD, and began to move away from its original core business model of DVDs, by introducing video on demand via the Internet."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix

Thus, Netflix was an online DVD rental service for the first nine years of its operation and did not begin to offer streamed content until 2007.

CNN slide show about the history of Netflix, up to 2014, here:

https://www.cnn.com/2014/07/21/showb...ory/index.html

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Another new UHD Blu-ray player for 2019, the Sony UBP-X1100ES, info here. IMHO the X800 and X1000 by Sony will be phased out. At any rate, plenty of new players to chose from.

Thanks for your information. On the basis of outstanding performances from all the Sony players I've ever owned, I'm very interested in the X1100. I gather some people have had issues with the X800, but I can honestly say it has been flawless for me - and trust me, it gets used constantly.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

"Netflix's initial business model included DVD sales and rental by mail, but Hastings abandoned the sales about a year after the company's founding to focus on the DVD rental business."

IIRC there was a lawsuit against Netflix and Walmart accusing them of collusion. Walmart had started or was going to start renting disc by mail. After alleged meetings between the two Walmart abandoned disc by mail rentals and Netflix abandoned disc sales. IMO, neither one saw that Red elephant coming down the road, Blockbuster did not till it was stepped on by it.

[LifeNeedsMovies]

I think if Blu Ray companies would just let buyers have their digital codes the day the digital HD is out.. a lot more people would buy the physical discs too. I bought Glass on 4K UHD.. 25$.. Now, i'm not about to spend another 30-40 bucks for the disc. I would have liked to have both. But I'm an impatient buyer and I don't want to have to wait 2 extra weeks to watch the movie if the digital is out

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by LifeNeedsMovies

I think if Blu Ray companies would just let buyers have their digital codes the day the digital HD is out.. a lot more people would buy the physical discs too. I bought Glass on 4K UHD.. 25$.. Now, i'm not about to spend another 30-40 bucks for the disc. I would have liked to have both. But I'm an impatient buyer and I don't want to have to wait 2 extra weeks to watch the movie if the digital is out

EST before disc is just another way some studios are trying to get you to do EST. What is the hurry? You waited your entire life to see Glass, what is another 2 weeks wait? The digital code will probably show up soon and cheap. Please note, I do not condone the redeeming of purchased codes. Apparently it is OK to sell them.

[Vilya]

What's a two week wait for the best quality format, 4K disc, that will include a blu-ray and the code? Pay one price, currently $29.99, one time and get three ways to watch the film. Price might even be lower on or nearer to release day.

I can easily wait that long; I'm pretty sure that I can find something else to watch in the meantime.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

That is fine, I was just repeating some of Hastings postings from many years ago.

Do you read Netflix SEC filings? They are really good at playing with the numbers. If they made a profit then why did they not pay any federal income tax?

Don't get me wrong, I like Netflix, been with them since the early days of disc-by-mail and later streaming. Have had both plans for a long time.

We invested a good bit in their stock sometime back, once it doubled in price we sold it, we are not greedy.

I guess the same reason a lot of Fortune 100 companies don't pay any federal income taxes. (credits, investments, and wise tax departments)

I think the government actually pays General Electric every year.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

That's the reason why the digital versions launch 2 weeks earlier. The studios know that hardly anyone would prefer to buy a digital version over a Blu-ray/DVD/Digital HD combo or a 4K Blu-ray/Blu-ray/Digital UHD combo, so they release it early so impatient people don't have a choice.

People like you are the absolute best for the studios: impatient and willing to buy the same thing multiple times to get the best version.

Or they are trying to encourage one behavior over another - Just another way to look at it - I personally have no clue why they actually do it

[cheez avenger]

Less clutter, early access, and cheaper prices. That's why I do it.