Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Another evasive response!

Are you saying Ultra Violet is not shutting down? Links please.

FFS Wendy. Just take the L and move on. You said the studios were not providing codes and you were proven to be incorrect.

And saying there won't be a way to redeem digital after UV shuts down VS no announcement has been made yet, are very different things

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Another lively happy day in this thread and for once I'm not in the middle of it!

Just having some while ripping some new CD's to the NAS drive and waiting on some glue to dry.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

I hardly spend time on here these days and haven't seen anything as blatantly incorrect as your post.

Physical media sales have fallen over 50% the past 5 years, they're not going to eliminate another potential incentive for purchase with the digital copy. that makes no sense

Actually, that is not true. Physical media sales have not fallen "over 50% the past five years."

In 2013, physical media sales totaled $7.539 billion. DVD sales then: $5.243 billion.

In 2018, physical media sales totaled $4.109 billion. DVD sales last year: $2.246 billion.

Physical media sales are down 45.5% (pretty sure that is less than 50%), 2018 vs. 2013, and that is almost entirely due to the drop in DVD sales. $2.997 billion of the total $3.43 billion drop over that time period were due to DVD sales declining. DVDs were responsible for 87.4% of that drop.

Seeing as you like it when people are spot on factual, I thought you would appreciate these facts.

Source:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1057

I do agree that the digital copy will continue to be included with disc combo packs.

[avs commenter]

hold on, I'm trying to find a gif of someone doing mental gymnastics

[Wendell R. Breland]

Just finished boxing up 4 LG BP540 Blu-ray players that I will donate to local charity. They still work fine except for one thing. Amazon decided to remove their app from this and other models of LG players. Can not complain because you have to agree they can do this.

Still, for me, they turned this player into a streaming paper weight.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Just finished boxing up 4 LG BP540 Blu-ray players that I will donate to local charity. They still work fine except for one thing. Amazon decided to remove their app from this and other models of LG players. Can not complain because you have to agree they can do this.

Still, for me, they turned this player into a streaming paper weight.

Little loss, really. Amazon is the worst streaming provider I have yet encountered. It is the only one that I have issues with. Amazon streaming severely degrades and freezes up nearly every time that I attempt to use it no matter the time of day or night. Even at 2 AM, Amazon still screws up. Hard wiring my TV to the internet made zero difference.

Netflix, YouTube, and Vudu are almost always stable and reliable provided my ISP is cooperating.

Nice of you to donate those players just the same.

[NightMovie901]

You know ...

we can have a discussion here and have differing opinions without resorting to personal/character attacks against others

just sayin'

[Wendell R. Breland]

I am glad to see MA titles are starting to use QR Codes. Wish all did as I have stack that I need to redeem.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

we can have a discussion here and have differing opinions without resorting to personal/character attacks against others

During the days of DVD vs Divx DVD did you ever visit a site called eTown. There were no mods and it was pretty amazing all the things people would say to each other. Most post contained a lot of foul language. The only reason to visit was because a few insiders would make occasional post there.

With Transistor vs Tube, LaserDisc vs CED, βetamax vs VHS, DVD vs Divx DVD, 8VSB vs COFDM, Blu-ray vs HD-DVD, etc. there will always be opposing views. In general, laymen do not like technical people posting in forums. This was most obvious in the Blu-ray vs HD-DVD war when Blu-ray insiders quit posting on most sites because they were treated very rudely. Same for 8VSB vs COFDM.

[JohnAV]

Another misguided online article on your favorite topic

Netflix and Amazon Are Killing Ultra HD Blu-ray (And I Feel Fine)
By Jerry Del Colliano | April 15, 2019

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Another misguided online article on your favorite topic

Hey John, send him this link which shows Netflix prime time streaming speeds. I, and many others may watch Netflix in UHD but the average sure is not.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Another misguided online article on your favorite topic

Netflix and Amazon Are Killing Ultra HD Blu-ray (And I Feel Fine)
By Jerry Del Colliano | April 15, 2019

That article should be printed on Charmin as that it is really all it is good for. Ah, internet authors, compounding ignorance exponentially!

What advancements in streaming? Is the author stoned or simply stupid full-time? There have been no new codecs and no improved bitrates for streaming since 2015. 16 Mbps then and 16 Mbps now and not even 20% of the bitrate of a 4K disc.

4K UHD disc sales were up 70% last year in the U.S. and up 83% globally. Blu-ray sales were only down 1.2% last year. 4K discs are doing just fine and the format is only three years-old. It is doing almost as well as blu-ray was at the same age.

This author also seems to think that the entire world has access to broadband internet and to all of these streaming services. For those that do rely upon streaming, what they get is heavily compressed and artifact plagued video along with lossy audio. They often get to enjoy buffering and resolution drops during playback, too. All of which is fine for the convenience and cost conscious consumer, but woefully inadequate for those that want the best in video and audio quality and that also want true ownership of what they buy.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

You know ...

we can have a discussion here and have differing opinions without resorting to personal/character attacks against others

just sayin'

You're right. My apologies to wendell. I was having a stressful morning. some personal stuff.

But still, Wendell you keep harping on UV closing and all it is is a locker system.

UV is closing, but as of now, VUDU, Amazon, Itunes, Google Play, Fandangonow and microsoft are all still kicking.

and that screenshot Dustin44 posted confirms my suspicion on how it will play out post 7/31.

Though when MGM, Paramount and Lionsgate etc all join MA that will be a glorious day.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

You're right. My apologies to wendell. I was having a stressful morning. some personal stuff.

But still, Wendell you keep harping on UV closing and all it is is a locker system.

UV is closing, but as of now, VUDU, Amazon, Itunes, Google Play, Fandangonow and microsoft are all still kicking.

and that screenshot Dustin44 posted confirms my suspicion on how it will play out post 7/31.

Though when MGM, Paramount and Lionsgate etc all join MA that will be a glorious day.

All you guys need now is for Digital HD to actually start selling. . It will only get worse with Disney+ coming soon. As of last year I believe animated films were by far the biggest sellers on the struggling format. Considering Disney+ will have Pixar, Disney, Marvel etc.. Digital HD will take a huge hit and let’s face it, it can’t afford that.
Disc versions will be fine because people are buying for the quality.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

You know ...

we can have a discussion here and have differing opinions without resorting to personal/character attacks against others

just sayin'

Nah, one thing I have learned is that for some, that’s just not possible. Fight fire with fire!

[The_Donster]

Alright, caught up on the last few days back and forth. Digital copies seem to have replaced DVD’s on the combo front. Which kind of bums me out, as I like to have a DVD copy of our favorite movies on vacations. It gives us something to watch while we’re unwinding from our day. Yes, UV is closing shop, but if you have your account linked to another provider (Mine is VUDU) your titles will stay with them. I also do my best to just redeem through VUDU or iTunes when possible.

It depends on the studio though. As we’ve got a 3 hold outs on the MA front. Who I hardly redeem through. Another hot button folks seem to get on is the selling of the digital copies. How is this any different than the selling or burning of discs? I normally just redeem the digital copies that come with my discs, but have given away, bought and received them as a gift. As I have physical. So how’s this different than selling or burning of discs. Wouldn’t both be, technically illegal

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by flyry

My apologies to wendell.

Not sure I was owed one but thanks anyway, we are good.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

It depends on the studio though. As we’ve got a 3 hold outs on the MA front. Who I hardly redeem through. Another hot button folks seem to get on is the selling of the digital copies. How is this any different than the selling or burning of discs? I normally just redeem the digital copies that come with my discs, but have given away, bought and received them as a gift. As I have physical. So how’s this different than selling or burning of discs. Wouldn’t both be, technically illegal

I am not a lawyer, but I play one on the internet!

Giving away or selling some of the discs included with a combo pack is legal as permitted under the First Sales Doctrine.

"The first-sale doctrine creates a basic exception to the copyright holder's distribution right. Once the work is lawfully sold or even transferred gratuitously, the copyright owner's interest in the material object in which the copyrighted work is embodied is exhausted. The owner of the material object can then dispose of it as he sees fit. Thus, one who buys a copy of a book is entitled to resell it, rent it, give it away, or destroy it. However, the owner of the copy of the book will not be able to make new copies of the book because the first-sale doctrine does not limit copyright owner's reproduction right."

Digital copies are another matter because no physical transfer is involved and no actual sale occurred.

"The first-sale doctrine does not neatly fit transfers of copies of digital works because an actual transfer does not actually happen – instead, the recipient receives a new copy of the work while, at the same time, the sender has the original copy (unless that copy is deleted, either automatically or manually)."

"first sale doctrine does not apply if the possession of the copy is "by rental, lease, loan, or otherwise without acquiring ownership of it."

"Some software and digital content publishers claim in their end-user license agreements (EULA) that their software or content is licensed, not sold, and thus the first sale doctrine does not apply to their works."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

As a practical matter, there has been little actual enforcement regarding the selling or giving away of digital copies. There will likely be more legal challenges as many feel that the distinction between giving away, or selling, that extra DVD and that included digital code is largely a semantic one. You can let your own conscience be your guide here.

[avs commenter]

After the decision, Disney changed the language on its Combo Pack boxes, changed the download sites' terms of use and amended its complaint with a new attempt at an injunction. Black Panther became the first product incorporating the change. Now, Disney tells customers, "Digital code redemption requires prior acceptance of license terms and conditions," "The digital code contained in this package may not be sold separately" and more.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/th...rately-1138556

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Yes, UV is closing shop, but if you have your account linked to another provider (Mine is VUDU) your titles will stay with them.

Same here, never used Fandango but I will sign up and link, just in case.

Another hot button folks seem to get on is the selling of the digital copies. How is this any different than the selling or burning of discs?

Selling purchased authorized disc is covered under The First Sale doctrine, selling unauthorized burned disc is illegal (per that annoying FBI warrning). The selling of digital movie codes is not clear. See the reference to the only case file that I know about a few post back. As to redeeming purchased digital codes that were included with a disc, well that one should be pretty clear.

If I understood the case file correctly one can purchase the disc + code, redeem the code and sell the physical disc. Wish others would read it to see what they thought. I know, very boring, a PDF here.

Search for Case 2:17-cv-08655-DDP-AGR and it should bring up a PDF. It used to be a search for a PDF brought up a link, now days it is a useless string 300 charters long .