Zack Snyder's 'Man of Steel'

[RyanPom]

Originally Posted by Dorklord

I actually wasn't dissing on Superman Returns there fyi. I actually enjoyed it. I was just disappointed by it's box office returns... and the fact that they didn't give it another go. So I actually like Superman Returns and Man of Steel. Just glad to have Superman back.

I liked them both for different reasons. At least they weren't making the Superman movies a joke like III and IV did.

[Dorklord]

Originally Posted by RyanPom

I liked them both for different reasons. At least they weren't making the Superman movies a joke like III and IV did.

Yeah, agreed. III and IV were nothing more than lackluster attempts at a cash grab. I can't even watch them.

[Drewbee87]

Originally Posted by Dorklord

Yeah, agreed. III and IV were nothing more than lackluster attempts at a cash grab. I can't even watch them.

I didn't really like watching the first two Superman films. Some said "If you want to see the best Superman films ever watch Superman I & II!" so I decided to borrow the Anthology set from a friend and watch them all. I REALLY want the time back I spent watching III and IV....

[rdm5777]

Originally Posted by Drewbee87

So, exactly what version of Superman is "Superman" to you Petra_Kalbrain? Because the Superman I saw in MOS was pretty damn close to what I've read in the comics over the past 12 years. And he's also a lot different from some of those comics I've read.

Would you mind expanding on this a bit? You've mentioned it a few times and I'm curious what comic storylines you are referring to.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by bluearth

Updated box office for Superhero origin films.

821m - Spider-Man (2002)
752m - The Amazing Spider-Man (2012)
586m - Man of Steel (2013)
585m - Iron Man (2008)
449m - Thor (2011)
385m - Xmen First Class (2011)
374m - Batman Begins (2005)
373m - Xmen Origins - Wolverine (2009)
368m - Captain America: The First Avenger
296m - Xmen (2000)
263m - The Incredible Hulk (2008)
245m - Hulk (2003)
219m - The Green Lantern (2011)

For the record, the adjusted worldwide take of Superman: The Movie would be over $1 billion.

[Jumpman]

Took the wife to see this on Friday. Yes, I can't remember how many times I've seen the film now but I really wanted her opinion. The genre as it is right now, she's tired of, except for Iron Man. She liked Nolan's trilogy but other films, she just sort of shrugs at them.

That being said, he's a big Lois and Clark fan. To her, that's her Superman and Lois story, not the Reeves' films.

Anyway, she really liked the film. Yeah, she felt the action in the second half was a bit much but after thinking over the film for a day, she came to like it more and more. She says she wants to see it again. Just another excuse to see this bad boy one more time.

Love the shit out of this film, warts and all.

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

For the record, the adjusted worldwide take of Superman: The Movie would be over $1 billion.

As would Spider-Man which would still be the top earner - it'd be about $1.12b. Superman would be just under at about $1.02b

[metalore]

Originally Posted by bluearth

Honestly I cant even remember how the final fight of Star Trek into Darkness went down. And I doubt many care because for sure it was likely just another cookie-cutter ending where the bad guy trips and falls onto a spike or the bad guy is knocked unconscious and arrested.

You expect me to believe you forgot Vulcan Death Grip vs Khan Head Smash?

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Yoku

You want a long speech of Superman after the disaster to show he really cared about humans
IMO Snyder did the right thing by not showing what happened after the destruction. What happens usually after destruction in movies: People happily posing for camera, giving interviews about who their favorite superhero is, and our heroes eating Shawarma -> is this supposed to be inspiration? A destruction of this scale leaves no good memories for anybody caught in the middle. You either show the complete detail of how the city is rebuilt else dont even bother about it.

Exaggerate much? Superman wouldn't have to deliver a long speech. Just something acknowledging that he is with them in the aftermath would be sufficient. Without even so much as a word it just seems like he takes no responsibility for the negative effects of his actions. Despite the vastly enormous positive results, he can't just ignore his part in the destruction.

[Rambaldi47]

I just saw the movie this weekend and I thought it was great! I can't wait for a sequel. I did have one question, though. How did Clark know where

[Show spoiler]the scout ship was buried in the ice? Did he hear rumors as he was travelling the world? It seemed odd to me that he knew where to look.

[unsung122212]

Originally Posted by Rambaldi47

I just saw the movie this weekend and I thought it was great! I can't wait for a sequel. I did have one question, though. How did Clark know where

[Show spoiler]the scout ship was buried in the ice? Did he hear rumors as he was travelling the world? It seemed odd to me that he knew where to look.

[Show spoiler]he overheard a rumor while he was working as a busboy at the diner where he confronts the bully harassing the waitress. The rumorbbeing some sort of ship or object was buried in ice close or something with some speculating alien origins.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Exaggerate much? Superman wouldn't have to deliver a long speech. Just something acknowledging that he is with them in the aftermath would be sufficient. Without even so much as a word it just seems like he takes no responsibility for the negative effects of his actions. Despite the vastly enormous positive results, he can't just ignore his part in the destruction.

This highlights are larger issue with this movie overall.

Snyder said he wanted to approach the movie as if it was the first time it was ever being told. (Great idea if you are going to make an origin story). He went the sci-fi route, and overall it worked.

The problem is, he (and the writers), rely on the audience knowing everything about the characters. If you had never scene Superman - would you know he stands for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" based on this movie?

Basically, the writers just seemed to fast forward in a lot of areas and have the audience just fill in the gaps.

• Would you remember Perry White's name? Or the girl's name...Jenny Olson...did they ever even say her name?
  
• We see Lois and Supes kiss - but never really got the love story. You are just supposed to "know", this is the girl he falls in love with, so we'll just fast forward to the make out session.
  
• Does the world love Superman - yes! I think...maybe. Actually, I have no idea. Thousands of people died, but we see almost no one (expect Perry White and "that girl") see him and think he is pretty cool. What does the rest of the world/US think? No idea, except that an attractive Captain thinks, "he's kinda hot".
  
• In the end, Superman destroys a Drone worth millions of dollars (take that tax payers! ). And seems to act as if, "Hey, don't you remember, we're best friends!...Besides, I grew up in Kansas! So, we're good, right"?
  
• Is the family alive or dead? The writers/director can't be bothered with the family. (I'm on the side that they were saved, with very little question otherwise).

The biggest issue with the vocal critics seem to all focus on one thing - lack of character. I really blame the writers and Snyder for shorthanding a lot of Superman's character development and thoughts and feelings of both him, and those around him. Just a few little moments would have really changed the movie for a lot of detractors and we wouldn't see such a large disparity between those who loved it, and those would didn't or felt it was lacking in one major area. Just my opinion, of course.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

This highlights are larger issue with this movie overall.

Snyder said he wanted to approach the movie as if it was the first time it was ever being told. (Great idea if you are going to make an origin story). He went the sci-fi route, and overall it worked.

The problem is, he (and the writers), rely on the audience knowing everything about the characters. If you had never scene Superman - would you know he stands for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" based on this movie?

Basically, the writers just seemed to fast forward in a lot of areas and have the audience just fill in the gaps.

• Would you remember Perry White's name? Or the girl's name...Jenny Olson...did they ever even say her name?
  
• We see Lois and Supes kiss - but never really got the love story. You are just supposed to "know", this is the girl he falls in love with, so we'll just fast forward to the make out session.
  
• Does the world love Superman - yes! I think...maybe. Actually, I have no idea. Thousands of people died, but we see almost no one (expect Perry White and "that girl") see him and think he is pretty cool. What does the rest of the world/US think? No idea, except that an attractive Captain thinks, "he's kinda hot".
  
• In the end, Superman destroys a Drone worth millions of dollars (take that tax payers! ). And seems to act as if, "Hey, don't you remember, we're best friends!...Besides, I grew up in Kansas! So, we're good, right"?
  
• Is the family alive or dead? The writers/director can't be bothered with the family. (I'm on the side that they were saved, with very little question otherwise).

The biggest issue with the vocal critics seem to all focus on one thing - lack of character. I really blame the writers and Snyder for shorthanding a lot of Superman's character development and thoughts and feelings of both him, and those around him. Just a few little moments would have really changed the movie for a lot of detractors and we wouldn't see such a large disparity between those who loved it, and those would didn't or felt it was lacking in one major area. Just my opinion, of course.

Very well said.

[Darth Marcus]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

Is the family alive or dead? The writers/director can't be bothered with the family. (I'm on the side that they were saved, with very little question otherwise).

The family definitely survived. Zack Snyder said

[Show spoiler]"it came down to a choice of killing Zod, OR watch a family die."

It doesn't show it, but they definitely survived. I honestly don't even see how there was a debate on this in the first place.

[kurtlingle]

Superman cried/etc in the train station, and Lois comforted him. I think that is enough.

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

I don't think people have a problem with the destruction itself, from what I've read. It is more that Superman doesn't seem to care about it. Not one look of anguish at the destruction that has been caused. But this is an issue with the writers. Obviously, saving and protecting people wasn't an aspect of Superman they felt was important enough to include - but for a lot of people, that is the most important part of Superman, his heart.

[JavaJulien]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

This highlights are larger issue with this movie overall.

Snyder said he wanted to approach the movie as if it was the first time it was ever being told. (Great idea if you are going to make an origin story). He went the sci-fi route, and overall it worked.

The problem is, he (and the writers), rely on the audience knowing everything about the characters. If you had never scene Superman - would you know he stands for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" based on this movie?

Basically, the writers just seemed to fast forward in a lot of areas and have the audience just fill in the gaps.

• Would you remember Perry White's name? Or the girl's name...Jenny Olson...did they ever even say her name?
  
• We see Lois and Supes kiss - but never really got the love story. You are just supposed to "know", this is the girl he falls in love with, so we'll just fast forward to the make out session.
  
• Does the world love Superman - yes! I think...maybe. Actually, I have no idea. Thousands of people died, but we see almost no one (expect Perry White and "that girl") see him and think he is pretty cool. What does the rest of the world/US think? No idea, except that an attractive Captain thinks, "he's kinda hot".
  
• In the end, Superman destroys a Drone worth millions of dollars (take that tax payers! ). And seems to act as if, "Hey, don't you remember, we're best friends!...Besides, I grew up in Kansas! So, we're good, right"?
  
• Is the family alive or dead? The writers/director can't be bothered with the family. (I'm on the side that they were saved, with very little question otherwise).

The biggest issue with the vocal critics seem to all focus on one thing - lack of character. I really blame the writers and Snyder for shorthanding a lot of Superman's character development and thoughts and feelings of both him, and those around him. Just a few little moments would have really changed the movie for a lot of detractors and we wouldn't see such a large disparity between those who loved it, and those would didn't or felt it was lacking in one major area. Just my opinion, of course.

+1

And that doesn't even touch

[Show spoiler]Superman having to deal with the emotional devestation of taking a life. It immediately time jumps after he kills Zod to several months later.

[BluRoo98]

Originally Posted by JavaJulien

+1

And that doesn't even touch

[Show spoiler]Superman having to deal with the emotional devestation of taking a life. It immediately time jumps after he kills Zod to several months later.

There is plenty of chance in the sequels to do flashbacks and develop all these points more. This was the first course, look at Nolan's trilogy, part 2 is where all the heart is and part 3 brings them all together for resolution.

[V2David]

Originally Posted by HD2Blu

There is plenty of chance in the sequels to do flashbacks and develop all these points more. This was the first course, look at Nolan's trilogy, part 2 is where all the heart is and part 3 brings them all together for resolution.

Please no more flashbacks. The flashbacks ruined all of the suspense.

[KingRad]

Originally Posted by bluearth

The amount of scrutiny this film has received is incredible. People are going over it with a fine toothed comb and magnifying glasses searching for any crack or weakness.

Why wasnt this done to other films? I've seen reviewers praise other films this summer despite openly acknowledging the massive plot holes and defiance of reality that they demonstrate, but when it comes to Man of Steel they get out the Microscope and get to work.

So what does it mean? Man of Steel was incredible

Honestly I cant even remember how the final fight of Star Trek into Darkness went down. And I doubt many care because for sure it was likely just another cookie-cutter ending where the bad guy trips and falls onto a spike or the bad guy is knocked unconscious and arrested.

Man of Steel was different, and for that I thank Zach Snyder for standing up against CHristopher Nolan's phantom zone ending. And Nolan the hypocrite

[Show spoiler]Batman Begins he lets Al Ra die and in The Dark Knight Batman pushes Harvey Dent 50 feet to his death

Have you seen Into Darkness?

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

This highlights are larger issue with this movie overall.

Snyder said he wanted to approach the movie as if it was the first time it was ever being told. (Great idea if you are going to make an origin story). He went the sci-fi route, and overall it worked.

The problem is, he (and the writers), rely on the audience knowing everything about the characters. If you had never scene Superman - would you know he stands for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" based on this movie?

Basically, the writers just seemed to fast forward in a lot of areas and have the audience just fill in the gaps.

• Would you remember Perry White's name? Or the girl's name...Jenny Olson...did they ever even say her name?
  
• We see Lois and Supes kiss - but never really got the love story. You are just supposed to "know", this is the girl he falls in love with, so we'll just fast forward to the make out session.
  
• Does the world love Superman - yes! I think...maybe. Actually, I have no idea. Thousands of people died, but we see almost no one (expect Perry White and "that girl") see him and think he is pretty cool. What does the rest of the world/US think? No idea, except that an attractive Captain thinks, "he's kinda hot".
  
• In the end, Superman destroys a Drone worth millions of dollars (take that tax payers! ). And seems to act as if, "Hey, don't you remember, we're best friends!...Besides, I grew up in Kansas! So, we're good, right"?
  
• Is the family alive or dead? The writers/director can't be bothered with the family. (I'm on the side that they were saved, with very little question otherwise).

The biggest issue with the vocal critics seem to all focus on one thing - lack of character. I really blame the writers and Snyder for shorthanding a lot of Superman's character development and thoughts and feelings of both him, and those around him. Just a few little moments would have really changed the movie for a lot of detractors and we wouldn't see such a large disparity between those who loved it, and those would didn't or felt it was lacking in one major area. Just my opinion, of course.

Number one, it's shown and stated very clearly that Perry is Lois' editor and chief. Perry's name is mentioned at least 3 times. Jenny is not an Olsen. That was an assumption online. Her name was mentioned at least twice in the climax and definitely at the end of the film, in the last scene.

As for the family, you see them run away in the wide shot of Supes and Lois hugging.

Lois and Supes are not in love when they kiss. They have a strong foundation for a relationship based on complete trust in one another. The kiss was an in the moment, lust kiss, because there were sparks between the two at the military compound when Supes gave himself up.

As for what the world thinks of Superman, we know what Jenny, Lois, and Perry think of the man. We know what the US government thinks of the man. The world at large? Not yet. It's sequel bait. I don't like sequel bait but that's where you're going to find your answer.

This film does not play on people's assumptions and knowledge of Superman.

As for "truth, justice, and the American Way", why would he even have at ideology yet? This is Superman Begins. He clearly acknowledges that he's American but to be so narrow minded about him being for American ideology is not a good way of thinking. He's global now. And it makes sense for him to because he didn't just save Metropolis like in the other films. He saved the entire damn planet.

Anything else?