The Criterion Collection

[nitin]

Originally Posted by joie

Completely serious. Which of my statements do you doubt?

8 1/2 is pure spectacle, so I don' t understand why anyone would want to be distracted from that by reading subtitles

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by joie

Completely serious. Which of my statements do you doubt?

It's also OK to ignore David Lynch and watch "Eraserhead" on an iPhone. He might even "think different" now that iPhones can do 1080p.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Well, it was certainly rather common in the 50s and 60s with foreign genre films being distributed here theatrically and on TV. Things like Japanese monster/SF films, or various Italian genre films like spaghetti westerns, pepla (sword-and-sandal films), and gialli (horror films). I'd say that that's probably when it was at its peak.



Well, to be honest, even through the 70s, I rarely saw a foreign-language film in the theater that was dubbed rather than subtitled. The last time I can even recall of a foreign-language film being released here dubbed was in the early 80s. Das Boot was released here in both a subtitled version (under its regular title) and a dubbed version (under the title The Boat).

The last ones I remember were the different Kung Fu movies of the '70s and later the Jackie Chan movies that were usually cut down from their original running time and dubbed.

[WonderWeasel]

A couple of weeks ago I picked up the most recent collaboration between Wallace Shawn and Andre Gregory, A Master Builder, but was hesitant to watch it after reading a few rather lackluster reviews describing the film's performances as wooden and stilted.

When I got home from the ballgame last night, I was sunburnt and about seven beers deep. My inhibitions were eroded, I threw caution to the wind, and I'm damn glad that I decided to partake in this entertaining amalgam of stage and cinema.

After watching the film, I'm guessing the reviews that I read didn't understand the atmosphere or its purpose. It seemed like Shawn, Gregory, and Demme really wanted to honor the fact that the film has its roots in Gregory's translation and theatrical production of Henrik Ibsen's original play. Even Demme's digital hand-held photography seemed to lend itself to this effect, as you often feel you're on set with the performers.

I also wanted to mention Lisa Joyce's performance. This is the first time I have seen her in anything, and I thought she was absolutely brilliant as the manic Hilde. Her performance was, honestly, one of the best I have ever seen. I'd recommend the film based on it alone.

Oh, and I got to see the Ran restoration in the theater today and had a blast, but that's a discussion for another thread

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by WonderWeasel

A couple of weeks ago I picked up the most recent collaboration between Wallace Shawn and Andre Gregory, A Master Builder, but was hesitant to watch it after reading a few rather lackluster reviews describing the film's performances as wooden and stilted.

When I got home from the ballgame last night, I was sunburnt and about seven beers deep. My inhibitions were eroded, I threw caution to the wind, and I'm damn glad that I decided to partake in this entertaining amalgam of stage and cinema.

After watching the film, I'm guessing the reviews that I read didn't understand the atmosphere or its purpose. It seemed like Shawn, Gregory, and Demme really wanted to honor the fact that the film has its roots in Gregory's translation and theatrical production of Henrik Ibsen's original play. Even Demme's digital hand-held photography seemed to lend itself to this effect, as you often feel you're on set with the performers.

I also wanted to mention Lisa Joyce's performance. This is the first time I have seen her in anything, and I thought she was absolutely brilliant as the manic Hilde. Her performance was, honestly, one of the best I have ever seen. I'd recommend the film based on it alone.

Yeah I was a bit hesitant after watching the first 20 minutes, I am still not convinced by the digital photography and handheld style, and felt some of the performances were bad (but not the important ones anyway).

But the moment Lisa Joyce comes in the screen everything changes, she gives such an energetic performance that It was a breeze to watch the rest, and ended up feeling it was too short.

[theater dreamer]

Going back to the discussion of overdubbing audio parts in movies for just a moment. I want to hear a film as it was intended, with the actors on screen supplying complete performances. If that means reading subtitles, then so be it, because so much of a great actor's performance comes not just from the words they are saying, but how they are saying it. Delivery, and emotion, convey much more than words alone could ever do.

I liken this to watching an opera. In Pretty Woman, Richard Gere's Edward flies Julia Roberts' Vivian to the San Francisco Opera House to see a performance of Verdi's La Traviata. Edward tells her the first time a person sees an opera, they will have a dramatic reaction: either they will love it, or hate it. If they love it, they will always love it. If they hate it, they might learn to appreciate it one day, but it will never become part of their soul. Vivian clearly does not speak Italian, but by the end of the performance, she is moved to tears. She had a visceral reaction even though she couldn't understand what specifically was being said. Think, too, of the line in Shawshank Redemption when Red is talking about "those two Italian ladies, and how to this day I have no idea what they were singing about." The sheer power of their voices, and the emotions coming through in their singing conveyed feeling to a man that had not a clue what they were saying. And judging by the reactions of the men in the courtyard when Andy started playing the opera over the p.a. system, they were moved beyond words. For a short time, the men in that prison felt free because the voices of two ladies soared where they could not go.

Think of Brando in the back seat of that car in On The Waterfront, lamenting what his life could have been. Somebody could watch that scene, and not speak a word of English, and yet, they would take something away from Brando's riveting performance. You need to hear Brando delivering the lines to feel the regret, and the pain, in his voice. Who could read those lines Brando spoke, in another language, and capture the essence of his performance? Very few men have had command of the acting muse the way Brando did.

[filmmusic]

Excellently put theater dreamer.

And I feel real disappointed when we have to necessarily put up with dubbing in the cases of international cast films.
The other day I was watching an American film, in which a Greek actor was participating (I'm Greek).
Well, I know this Greek actor and he has such a powerful voice with much weight, almost theatrical one.
The dubbing was with a thin with no substance voice that degraded the performance more than elevated it. I still think it would have been better if we heard the original voice, even with an accent.

That's why it feels so strange and funny to me, when someone does have an option in non-international cast movies, and still chooses to watch a film dubbed, just because it's more convenient and he isn't used to reading subtitles.
I wonder how Fanny and Alexander would sound in English, which has such powerful voices in the original actors.
Haven't tried it and never will.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

To be fair, he still appeared to be having trouble bringing them up using his player too. I do think it's a little poor for Criterion to let people rely on their players to turn subs on/off.

That may be, but it's the way it's always been and isn't unique to the UK discs (which is what I'm trying to quell here; the last thing we need is false information about the UK discs carrying errors doing the rounds). It's long been strange to me that Criterion don't carry English subtitle options on their menu, but like I say, it's always been that way with them.

[ShellOilJunior]

Predictions - May (UK):

Ivan's Childhood
Easy Rider
In a Lonely Place
L'avventura

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

Predictions - May (UK):

Ivan's Childhood
Easy Rider
In a Lonely Place
L'avventura

Predictions? They've been confirmed for weeks*! June's too (Gilda, Overlord and Here Comes Mr. Jordan). We're expecting news of July's UK slate today.

The full Criterion UK line-up schedule can be found over here in the UK forum.

*There seems to be some confusion over Ivan's Childhood, which may or may not actually be happening.

[Arch Stanton]

Whoosh

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

Whoosh

Is that meant for me? I don't get it.

[ThisKid]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

Whoosh

That's not a whoosh. You go a WHOOSHY WHOOSH!!!

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by adamhopelies

Is that meant for me? I don't get it.

He was joking

[Polaroid]

Wait how are we getting July's O_o? I thought Criterion were announcing May?

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

He was joking

Oh right.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

Wait how are we getting July's O_o? I thought Criterion were announcing May?

May and June have already been announced. They sent out Criterion branded PR stuff weeks ago. Ironically this seems to have got lost in amongst the hundreds of complaints about Criterion not talking about the UK releases.

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by adamhopelies

May and June have already been announced. They sent out Criterion branded PR stuff weeks ago. Ironically this seems to have got lost in amongst the hundreds of complaints about Criterion not talking about the UK releases.

Pretty sure their website will be Mays releases..? The PR stuff wont be anything for public/website...

I know we know May and June but its not official on their site like Aprils line up.

[jh901]

Is there a list of out-of-print Criterion blu-ray releases?

[ccfixx]

Originally Posted by jh901

Is there a list of out-of-print Criterion blu-ray releases?

Check the Wikipedia page.

Sort by 'Blu-ray' and the OOP titles are all grouped together toward the bottom of the Blu-ray titles; they have grey boxes on the spine numbers.