Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[Gemeraldine]

I am not holding my breath for.. trading cards. However interested to see what new releases are coming. DF is about 50/50 hit rate for me, tend to enjoy the horror but skip the skinflicks.

[trainreck]

Originally Posted by Smegma

If Dark Forces ends up releasing Just Before Dawn it's ultimately a loss for everyone except Dark Forces ($). I think it's fair to say that Synapse would release a far superior end product, which would be better for the fans and the film. I guess we just have to wait and see.

Dark Force isn't releasing Just Before Dawn, Synapse has the license which is part of this whole drama. If you're following along they are fighting a lawsuit that went after the previous release from the Code Red days, this isn't about Dark Force getting to release the film.

[Worship.my.wreck]

Originally Posted by trainreck

Dark Force isn't releasing Just Before Dawn, Synapse has the license which is part of this whole drama. If you're following along they are fighting a lawsuit that went after the previous release from the Code Red days, this isn't about Dark Force getting to release the film.

Yes but there is more to the story. Demon Dave has the negatives for the movie (or is having them delivered to him). So unless Synapse plans to release the move off of some other elements, it ain’t happening.

[dawnofthediscs]

Man. Reading the last several pages of this thread and one thing is apparent. Dark Force is SO BACK. This is like 2019 all over again. I am so here for it.

[spawningblue]

I'm not sure what Dave is complaining about!?

It's Bill's fault for not getting anything on paper. Did he expect Vlado Jr. to just take Bill's word for it that he and his Father made a deal on the re-release if there was no proof of this? If Bill's contract expired and there is no proof otherwise, of course Vlado Jr. is going to try and make more money off the license and sell it elsewhere, and he did just that, to Synapse. It sucks this happened to Bill on his death bed but contracts are there for a reason. And Synapse most likely wouldn't be aware of any of this, outside of making a deal with Vlado Jr. for the license.

Now going after small physical media companies and making them pay $8,000 for selling the illegal Blu-rays is a little slimy. A cease and desist order would have made more sense but I'm sure the lawyer insisted upon that, as more money is more money to them.

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by dawnofthediscs

Man. Reading the last several pages of this thread and one thing is apparent. Dark Force is SO BACK. This is like 2019 all over again. I am so here for it.

Hey brother...isn't it great! WELCOME BACK dawnofthediscs. I don't know if we can ever top 2019 haha!

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by mallekis

Bill only had internegative (duplicate of 35mm negative). Demon was wrong again.

mallekaye you're a genius but do you think after 8 years in this business, releasing hundreds of movies with Dark Force and Framework and a long career of actually making movies that I don't know the difference between an original negative and an Interneg??? When Bill originally released JUST BEFORE DAWN I didn't even know him so I have no clue what he got. But I do know where the ORIGINAL NEGATIVE is because that's what I do. You can call me BOUNTY HUNTER DEMON...I hunt negatives!!!

[spawningblue]

And I have most of Dark Force's UHDs but to even compare them to Synapse's releases is laughable. Dave's right, they are arguably the best presentation for these films, but they're still pretty rough compared to other company's 4K releases, and blaming it on their age and budget is not an excuse as most of Vinegary Syndrome's releases are old cheap films and they are able to still deliver top notch presentations.

The truth is, Dark Force is just a smaller company, and that's fine. Dave does what he can with the budget he has. But lets not act like his releases are top tier compared to other companies. The one thing he can easily control is transferring the extras over from the previous releases, but he can't even bother to do that. So instead we get mostly barebones releases with passable transfers and cheap flimsy slipcovers. And no, adding a commentary with himself is not better than extras of hours with cast and crew.

Anyway, not trying to knock Dave and what he has done with Dark Force. I own many of his releases and will continue to purchase them if they're good, but this whole company wars thing is silly. Comparing yourself to the company that put out Suspiria on 4K, and just recently co-released Trick or Treat that sold out with a few days? Come on now. You're still in the minor leagues. Get back to me when you can have a website open 24/7.

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by spawningblue

I'm not sure what Dave is complaining about!?

It's Bill's fault for not getting anything on paper. Did he expect Vlado Jr. to just take Bill's word for it that he and his Father made a deal on the re-release if there was no proof of this? If Bill's contract expired and there is no proof otherwise, of course Vlado Jr. is going to try and make more money off the license and sell it elsewhere, and he did just that, to Synapse. It sucks this happened to Bill on his death bed but contracts are there for a reason. And Synapse most likely wouldn't be aware of any of this, outside of making a deal with Vlado Jr. for the license.

Now going after small physical media companies and making them pay $8,000 for selling the illegal Blu-rays is a little slimy. A cease and desist order would have made more sense but I'm sure the lawyer insisted upon that, as more money is more money to them.

You sound like a spokesman for those slimeballs. Synapse wasn't aware of any of this?? LMFAO Is that why they hooked up with little Vlado Junior (lol) years ago to license it, NEVER RELEASED IT, but just coincidentally happened to have
a little lawyer as a partner and decide to SUE everyone for copyright infringement and conversion. Go ask Grindhouse Video, Kino, Diabolik, Ronin, Shudder...etc...etc...if they think that's cool.

[spawningblue]

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

You sound like a spokesman for those slimeballs. Synapse wasn't aware of any of this?? LMFAO Is that why they hooked up with little Vlado Junior (lol) years ago to license it, NEVER RELEASED IT, but just coincidentally happened to have
a little lawyer as a partner and decide to SUE everyone for copyright infringement and conversion. Go ask Grindhouse Video, Kino, Diabolik, Ronin, Shudder...etc...etc...if they think that's cool.

I already mentioned it wasn't okay for them to sue instead of delivering cease and desist orders against the small stores. Although the licensing to streaming services is a little shadier, as I'm not sure why anyone was selling the streaming rights without involving the owner in the first place.

And I'm not sure if you're new to Synapse, but them getting the license for a film and sitting on it for 5+ years is nothing new. Ask any of their fans who have been waiting forever for many of their releases to come out (cough Deadly Spawn cough). It doesn't mean they'e secretly suing everyone behind the scenes. They're perfectionists, check out their Suspiria release for proof of this. it means you get amazing releases but unfortunately it also means you wait an unnecessarily long time for them to come out. That's not proof of how much they did or did not know in this case.

Either way, the bottom line is Synapse had/have a signed contract for rights to release the film, Bill did not, at least one that wasn't expired. It sucks that Vlado Jr. didn't honour whatever deal Bill made with his Father, but without any signed contracts or proof in any form, he doesn't have to or should be expected to. When dealing with tens of thousands of dollars, the honour system or handshake is not a valid contract and Bill should have known that after being the business for 20+ years.

[SchoolOfHardbox]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing if Synapse/Vlado Jr had the legal right to do it. I believe the disagreement (at least in my eyes) is they could have easily reached out to someone and said "Hey, there's nothing solid in the contract and unfortunately we'd like to release this in the future. Can you stop making/sending/selling copies?"

But no. Instead they went balls to the walls and sued everyone who was selling the movie despite these companies not even knowing there was an issue with a contract. They took things from 0 to 100 real quick and for no reason that I can see other than it was an easy way make several thousand dollars from doing nothing.

[Watershipdownisgood]

Originally Posted by LeviCalebTitus

I don't think anyone is disagreeing if Synapse/Vlado Jr had the legal right to do it. I believe the disagreement (at least in my eyes) is they could have easily reached out to someone and said "Hey, there's nothing solid in the contract and unfortunately we'd like to release this in the future. Can you stop making/sending/selling copies?"

But no. Instead they went balls to the walls and sued everyone who was selling the movie despite these companies not even knowing there was an issue with a contract. They took things from 0 to 100 real quick and for no reason that I can see other than it was an easy way make several thousand dollars from doing nothing.

That's pretty scummy I don't know why Synapse did this it's really evil, and wicked.

[trainreck]

Originally Posted by LeviCalebTitus

I don't think anyone is disagreeing if Synapse/Vlado Jr had the legal right to do it. I believe the disagreement (at least in my eyes) is they could have easily reached out to someone and said "Hey, there's nothing solid in the contract and unfortunately we'd like to release this in the future. Can you stop making/sending/selling copies?"

But no. Instead they went balls to the walls and sued everyone who was selling the movie despite these companies not even knowing there was an issue with a contract. They took things from 0 to 100 real quick and for no reason that I can see other than it was an easy way make several thousand dollars from doing nothing.

This is pretty much just the world we live in. I'm not in the film industry but I am a professional photographer and this is the sentiment for really any media creators at this point. Copyright infringement is taken very seriously, can get you a lot of money, and there are no shortage of attorneys ready to go to war.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by LeviCalebTitus

I don't think anyone is disagreeing if Synapse/Vlado Jr had the legal right to do it. I believe the disagreement (at least in my eyes) is they could have easily reached out to someone and said "Hey, there's nothing solid in the contract and unfortunately we'd like to release this in the future. Can you stop making/sending/selling copies?

How do we know that they didn't? David is one degree separated from all of this and we only know what he has said. Unfortunately, Bill is no longer with us and we haven't heard from Vlado.

Originally Posted by spawningblue

I already mentioned it wasn't okay for them to sue instead of delivering cease and desist orders against the small stores. Although the licensing to streaming services is a little shadier, as I'm not sure why anyone was selling the streaming rights without involving the owner in the first place.

I'm sure David meant well and intended to help Bill, but I think this highlights that David wasn't familiar with licensing agreements and what could and couldn't be done. The streaming debacle fails on Dark Force and is why they're a part of that lawsuit.

[BudtheChud]

It's been a while but I seem to recall Bill getting into trouble for selling stuff after his rights were up. Pretty sure that's what got the big cartel store finally nuked.

[Smegma]

Originally Posted by trainreck

Dark Force isn't releasing Just Before Dawn, Synapse has the license which is part of this whole drama. If you're following along they are fighting a lawsuit that went after the previous release from the Code Red days, this isn't about Dark Force getting to release the film.

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

...But I do know where the ORIGINAL NEGATIVE is because that's what I do. You can call me BOUNTY HUNTER DEMON...I hunt negatives!!!

Forgive me because I'm not entirely caught up. Outside of the previous lawsuit dispute, what are we talking about here? Dark Forces potentially cockblocking Synapse by sitting on the original camera negatives of Just Before Dawn, forcing them to use the internegative for their 4k release, instead of the OCN?

[trainreck]

Originally Posted by Smegma

Forgive me because I'm not entirely caught up. Outside of the previous lawsuit dispute, what are we talking about here? Dark Forces potentially cockblocking Synapse by sitting on the original camera negatives of Just Before Dawn, forcing them to use the internegative for their 4k release, instead of the OCN?

Most of the parties involved settled the initial lawsuit over the blu ray release. Dark Force is still involved in another lawsuit having to do with streaming the film on Shudder. Dark Force seemingly wants to use the ocn as leverage to fight their lawsuit, at least that's how I'm understanding it.

[Bradsdadg]

I would imagine Dave tried offering the OCN to them in exchange of dropping the suit, but who knows

[spawningblue]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

How do we know that they didn't? David is one degree separated from all of this and we only know what he has said. Unfortunately, Bill is no longer with us and we haven't heard from Vlado.

This exactly. How do we know Synapse didn’t reach out several times only to be ignored? Let’s be honest, as much as we all loved Bill, he wasn’t the most sane person to deal with at times. And Dave isn’t any better, acting like a wrestling villain half the time and challenging anyone that disagrees with him to fights. The truth is we don’t know the whole story, so attacking Synapse who has been in the business for a long time and put out several quality releases based on what Dave says is a little silly. He’s not really the most professional or trustworthy guy in the business and his live feeds are perfect examples of this.

[Damonstein]

Originally Posted by BudtheChud

It's been a while but I seem to recall Bill getting into trouble for selling stuff after his rights were up. Pretty sure that's what got the big cartel store finally nuked.

The big cartel was shut down over bill selling the Milligan titles after severin acquired them if memory serves. I recall demon dave saying he was going to war with severin over it which went nowhere which is where im sure this war against synapse will go. Same with his war with vinegar syndrome over mausoleum. All theatrics.