Deep Red 4K UHD (1975)

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

Put that way you’d think the movies were intended to be viewed in English, but that could’t be further from the truth.

Most the times the non Italian actors spoke in English because that’s what they understood. Italian actors read the Italian lines, and at the end it got dubbed as was the intention with Italian films. The fact that sometimes main actors were able to record lines in English during the shooting is a saving grace for what would otherwise be a very rough English track. Unfortunately doesn’t stop the dubbing of the bulk of the rest of the cast from being subpar in the large majority of the films. Suspiria manages to get away with it because of how dreamy the atmosphere is. Most the others end up being outright corny and completely out of phase with the intended delivery.

Back in the 70’s and 80’s English speaking actors couldn’t dub well if their life depended on it. Meanwhile Italians were so far ahead as it was part of their game and they knew the territory. They could turn the finest American or British stars into sounding as if they were naturals at speaking Italian.

Nothing wrong with liking the English tracks, but these films are intend to be, and frankly are best experienced, in Italian.

As a fan who has watched these movies since I was in grade school in the 1980s, I disagree. I think, for the most part, the English mixes are the best versions. They were aimed for the international market, and the international language was English, and they were filmed in English, often with native English-speaking actors in the main roles.

Chris

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by Nori

Great analysis/explanation of the events that took place. It's such a disturbing and haunting movie. Truly one of the best.

Thank you so much, Nori. I dropped you a PM here.

[Nori]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

As a fan who has watched these movies since I was in grade school in the 1980s, I disagree. I think, for the most part, the English mixes are the best versions. They were aimed for the international market, and the international language was English, and they were filmed in English, often with native English-speaking actors in the main roles.

Chris

I'm not so sure about that. They may have become international hits over time, but originally, they were mostly minor hits in some overseas markets (often in edited forms). Meanwhile in Italy they were huge hits locally, so I suspect the local market was the main one being considered when making these movies.

What's more the bulk of the actors were still Italian (sometimes only the main 1~2 stars would be native English speakers).

From what I had heard Argento let the actors speak in whatever language they spoke in during the shooting. I think Italian voice actors were so talented that replacing a few non Italians main stars and managing to dub over their lips worked out a lot better than the other way around (needing to dub all the secondary roles). For the English dubs they needed a bunch of actors to dub over all the secondary roles and most of the time very unconvincingly in my opinion. It's all great to hear David Hemmings voice, or Jennifer Connelly and Donald Pleasance, but when practically every other character in the movie comes out sounding badly dubbed, it completely ruins the immersion for me.

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

As a fan who has watched these movies since I was in grade school in the 1980s, I disagree. I think, for the most part, the English mixes are the best versions. They were aimed for the international market, and the international language was English, and they were filmed in English, often with native English-speaking actors in the main roles.

Chris

I tried Deep Red in Italian and English dubs.

Italian all the way by a mile. I couldn't take the English dub for long!

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

As a fan who has watched these movies since I was in grade school in the 1980s, I disagree. I think, for the most part, the English mixes are the best versions. They were aimed for the international market, and the international language was English, and they were filmed in English, often with native English-speaking actors in the main roles.

Chris

Argento may have had ambitions of his movies being widely shown overseas but his main market was Italy. He was a rock star in his homeland. His 70’s and 80’s films were all written in Italian and Argento supervised the Italian audio (using dubbing as was the norm in Italy). The international releases of several of his films were compromised by the distributors, and were often censored or re edited and shown with inferior cuts.

Argento fans forget this but it’s only in the home video age that he truly found wide success worldwide.

It’s fine if you prefer them in English, but Argento’s vision is not conveyed organically that way. All of his Italian and French/Italian productions are best seen in Italian as he intended.

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

All of his Italian and French/Italian productions are best seen in Italian as he intended.

The English Dolby Atmos track (derived from the original 4 channel surround) on the Suspiria 4K disc is one of the most impressive audio mixes that I've ever experienced. It's absolutely the way anyone should watch the film if they're able.

You also get two standout performances from lead actress Jessica Harper and the great Joan Bennett. Enough said.

[Jompa]

Yes, if you like that one, check out the Tom Cruise "War Of The Worlds" in Dolby Atmos

[Nori]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

The English Dolby Atmos track (derived from the original 4 channel surround) on the Suspiria 4K disc is one of the most impressive audio mixes that I've ever experienced. It's absolutely the way anyone should watch the film if they're able.

You also get two standout performances from lead actress Jessica Harper and the great Joan Bennett. Enough said.

I watched the 4 channel mix on the blu ray edition from Synapse. It sounds great, and I think Suspiria is the best English dub of all Argento films. I think the English distributor (20th century fox?) clearly were invested into making it good.

Despite all that praise, I still favor the Italian dub though. It's the way Argento made the movie. I know some actors read lines in English and were even recorded while shooting, but all the other characters lose so much in English.

By the way I just read on Wikipedia that Inferno only had a very limited release in the US, might explain why the English dub effort was such a dramatic drop in quality from Suspiria.

[KRW1]

Suspiria is the only one I watch in English. I think it adds to the surreal tone of the film.

[Streetlight]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

It’s fine if you prefer them in English, but Argento’s vision is not conveyed organically that way. All of his Italian and French/Italian productions are best seen in Italian as he intended.

I remember Argento saying he preferred the English dub of Suspiria because of Jessica Harper's voice.

EDIT: Not exactly what I said above, but here is my source from Wikipedia:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Argento expressed disappointment over the fact that Harper's voice, which he liked, was not heard in the Italian market because she was dubbed in Italian by another actress.[citation needed]

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by Nori

By the way I just read on Wikipedia that Inferno only had a very limited release in the US, might explain why the English dub effort was such a dramatic drop in quality from Suspiria.

FOX screwed Argento over royally with how they released Inferno here in the states. Almost no theatrical run and then straight to video due to a personal dislike of the film from certain executives.

It's a crying shame and also the main reason he didn't direct the third installment to the "Three Mothers" trilogy until two decades later.

[Nori]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

FOX screwed Argento over royally with how they released Inferno here in the states. Almost no theatrical run and then straight to video due to a personal dislike of the film from certain executives.

It's a crying shame and also the main reason he didn't direct the third installment to the "Three Mothers" trilogy until two decades later.

I wasn't aware of this but I just read about it. What a shame. Apparently Tenebre cause difficulties for Argento too. In Italy it got a higher rating than he wanted, and it didn't get a US release till years later in 1984.

[Nori]

Originally Posted by Streetlight

I remember Argento saying he preferred the English dub of Suspiria because of Jessica Harper's voice.

EDIT: Not exactly what I said above, but here is my source from Wikipedia:

I just read the entire blurb in the dubbing section on the US Wikipedia, and to be honest I think most of the first paragraph at least sounds made up. None of it is sourced or referenced, and I've never heard any of it before.

Dario Argento picked Emanuela Rossi to dub Suzy and she did it tone perfect in my opinion. Also worthy to note is that according to her Italian Wikipedia profile "She is considered one of the best and most popular voice actresses of her generation."

https://r7pnzvdw57ckxitkhu6au6egom-a...Emanuela_Rossi

Another reason to prefer the Italian dub is Stefania Casini who dubs herself as Sarah who plays a crucial role in the movie, and her English voice actor is not quite up to level in my opinion.

Another fun thing I found on the Italian Wikipedia page is that apparently Dario Argento picked Jessica Harper because "He was struck by her child's face and in particular by her Japanese Manga eyes".

https://translate.google.com/transla...iria%23Casting

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

Argento may have had ambitions of his movies being widely shown overseas but his main market was Italy. He was a rock star in his homeland. .

YES.

Still today, Dario Argento is as much popular and legendary in Italy in the same way and league as Stephen King is universally considered by Americans.

Anyone in Italy, and I truly mean anyone, knows who Dario Argento is. Even people who never watched his movies, or haters of the horror/thriller genre, still refer to "Dario Argento" as a supreme icon and a way to express an ideal concept related to horror.
Sometimes, in common talks you can hear Italian people say: "This seems a Dario Argento movie" or things like that, when referring to bad/nasty or scary situations.

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

As a fan who has watched these movies since I was in grade school in the 1980s, I disagree. I think, for the most part, the English mixes are the best versions. They were aimed for the international market, and the international language was English, and they were filmed in English, often with native English-speaking actors in the main roles.

Chris

That’s probably also nostalgia playing a hand in that.

Italian is the intended audio, the English tracks were made later for the UK and US releases (which accompanied the butchered edits that we saw in movie theaters).

Argento was struggling to even get distributors to play his films overseas, most the time his films were heavily cut, banned, or made the nasties list. Anything he could get shown overseas was a bonus, not the intended market.

One mustn't misinterpret the fact he hired foreign main actors as an intention to broaden the reach of the film, that was just the norm in Italy during that period.

[Christian Muth]

Luckily, most releases contain both language mixes (with Arrow going so far as to include both English and Italian versions of the credits via seamless branching), so we're free to choose. In some cases, I do prefer the Italian tracks (SLEEPLESS, THE STENDHAL SYDROME), but in other cases, English (SUSPIRIA).

I wish the Dolby Stereo Italian mix of INFERNO was available. I was listening to INFERNO in Italian on the German Blu-ray with the English-subtitles engaged, and found the opening voice-over to be much, MUCH better in the Italian dub than English, and another plus was the English subs on the German disc seem to be translated from the Italian track as opposed to the English... but alas, it's mono and not the original Dolby Stereo*.

Chris

*Or is it possible that the Italian mix of INFERNO was only done in mono? Perhaps 20th Century Fox only shelled out to mix the English version in Dolby Stereo?

[Nori]

Doesn't the Arrow release of Inferno have Italian Dolby stereo?

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Nori

Doesn't the Arrow release of Inferno have Italian Dolby stereo?

I don't have it so I don't know, but both the Blue Underground and German Blu-rays of INFERNO are mono for the Italian track.

Chris

[Nori]

Yes, I just checked. It has "Italian: DTS 2.0".

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Nori

Yes, I just checked. It has "Italian: DTS 2.0".

Which could be mono. Mono tracks are often encoded as 2.0 on disc. Indeed, the Italian track on the German INFERNO Blu-ray is DTS-HD 2.0 Master Audio, while the Blue Underground has the Italian track encoded as Dolby Digital 2.0, and both are mono.

Chris