Death Wish 4K UHD (1974)

[albert_m2]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

Oh, boy.

One of the most highly anticipated 4K releases in a LONG time is possibly bungled, or, worse, misrepresented.

I take it Robert Harris doesn't have a lot of fans on this forum. Nobody seems to be taking him seriously on the proper Kino BD thread - yet. He even says the Blu-ray looks better

Yikes.

Too many here love to complain.

[El Sleezo]

The naysayers will believe he’s trolling. The true disciples know he has almost divine knowledge of the morning habits of everyone who worked on Death Wish.

[TenYearLurker]

Originally Posted by tama

RAHs latest observations now:

Woof. You can almost hear him pausing between each line break to take in a big ol' whiff of his own farts, and let out a satisfied exhale.

[Areyakiddin]

He's obviously just using the angle button, duh!

[cash_black]

Originally Posted by lilboyblu

The guy still rates the 4K image quality 4 out of 5, and then recommends the Blu-ray. That's the inconsistency.

To echo others, I'm waiting for caps and other reviews before making any final decisions

I find it’s hard to believe it doesn’t best the blu ray as the blu ray is an absolute shocker, a very weak disc indeed.

[John Earls Umbrella]

Originally Posted by cash_black

I find it’s hard to believe it doesn’t best the blu ray as the blu ray is an absolute shocker, a very weak disc indeed.

You’d think so. In any case I can’t take that Harris review seriously - very unclear assessment and his thinking seems all over the place.

[dcx4610]

Outside of UHDs that have DNR applied or are legitmately recalled, I can't think of a single disc that looks better on Blu-ray vs. UHD.

Some people don't really like HDR (or have the proper TVs for HDR) and may not like how it changes certain movies but that would be preference.

I'd be shocked if Death Wish doesn't look better. Minimal difference? Sure. But worse? Not unless it's a new scan that was botched or the negative somehow degraded from the original scan.

[dcx4610]

CerealatMidnight's review is up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXczeiz3D8Q

Cliffs: It's good. Better than Blu-ray with lots of grain.

[Davidian]

Paramount, don’t smooth the 4ks. Leave the grain alone!

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Steel76

"While they both seem derived from the same master, which appears to be an older image harvest from an IP, and not the OCN, the Blu-ray disc has a more natural grain structure.

The 4k UHD disc has highly reduced grain, and (at least in bright areas (skies et al), a very awkward digital grain pattern that seems to clump, and at times appears to have mold embedded in the film element.

Is the 4k more highly resolved than the Blu-ray? Possibly, but not by much, and it has very little relationship to film, where the Blu has a more natural appearance.

If I had to purchase one or the other, I’d go for the Blu-ray, and not the 4k."

Well if this is true, then it's highly disappointing.
I love this movie, and was hoping for a fresh 4K scan from the negatives...

Are the original negatives lost? Or didn't Paramount allow them to use them for a new 4K scan? Or maybe they are saving it for themselves, for a new UHD release, on the 50th anniversary, next year.

If Robert cant even get simple facts right, why trust his opinion?

The new 4K is a brand new scan from the OCN. Confirmed by Kino, unless they are lying.

"Brand New 2022 HDR/Dolby Vision Master – From a 4K Scan of the 35mm Original Camera Negative"

https://kinolorber.com/product/death-wish-4kuhd

[dcx4610]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

If Robert cant even get simple facts right, why trust his opinion?

The new 4K is a brand new scan from the OCN. Confirmed by Kino, unless they are lying.

"Brand New 2022 HDR/Dolby Vision Master – From a 4K Scan of the 35mm Original Camera Negative"

https://kinolorber.com/product/death-wish-4kuhd

I think he's claiming that potentially someone put the IP in the can or mislabeled the reel so it's not really the OCN. That's his theory why it looks worse than the Blu-ray to his eye.

Heath says it looks better than the Blu-ray but that it's not a pretty picture and dark but looks filmic.

I think it's Highlander all over again. They aren't pretty movies to look at. They are never going to look amazing but it's true to the source material.

[DaylightsEnd]

Wait, the new scan has some grain?

Obviously defective.

Pre-order cancelled.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

I'd like to think that even if the cannisters were mislabeled, then someone would be able to differentiate an original negative from an interpositive.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

I'd like to think that even if the cannisters were mislabeled, then someone would be able to differentiate an original negative from an interpositive.

As RAH says though, an interpositive still carries the orange mask so at first glance...? There's something similar going on with Another 48 Hrs, at a certain point the 4K transfer reverts to what is clearly a lower gen source than the OG negative (could be interpositive, could even be an internegative) and it stays that way for the rest of the movie. For such a recent-ish show that's downright bizarre, but either the OG neg from that point got so badly damaged somehow that it had to be replaced outright, or indeed there's some mislabelling going on and no-one noticed that the rest of it wasn't OG neg.

[postmodel]

Full disclosure: top image is a cell phone pic of my tv (hence the slight crookedness, I’m just sitting here haha) and should not represent grain structure, colors, etc…my intent is to show the framing compared to the old Blu-ray.

Fuller disclosure: y’all scare me with your technical reviews. But judging by the old Blu-ray caps I like the 4K more and yes, there is grain. It’s just not the 1974 grain heaven picture that I was anticipating based on the era, which leads me to believe there has been some grain management going on. I haven’t watched the accompanying Blu-ray though to compare and I never watched the previous blu.

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

If Robert cant even get simple facts right, why trust his opinion?

The new 4K is a brand new scan from the OCN. Confirmed by Kino, unless they are lying.

"Brand New 2022 HDR/Dolby Vision Master – From a 4K Scan of the 35mm Original Camera Negative"

https://kinolorber.com/product/death-wish-4kuhd

They were lying when they said Deep Rising was going to be a new 4K scan so...

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

I think he's claiming that potentially someone put the IP in the can or mislabeled the reel so it's not really the OCN. That's his theory why it looks worse than the Blu-ray to his eye.

Heath says it looks better than the Blu-ray but that it's not a pretty picture and dark but looks filmic.

I think it's Highlander all over again. They aren't pretty movies to look at. They are never going to look amazing but it's true to the source material.

Well, he's been wrong a lot, and anyone would be able to tell a negative form a positive. They don't even looks the same. A negative is a NEGATIVE and requires color grading. A positive can be screened whereas a negative cannot.

No one can just "mix these up" and not know the difference.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

Well, he's been wrong a lot, and anyone would be able to tell a negative form a positive. They don't even looks the same. A negative is a NEGATIVE and requires color grading. A positive can be screened whereas a negative cannot.

No one can just "mix these up" and not know the difference.

You couldn’t screen an interpositive to actually ‘watch it’ though because it carries the colour masking…just like a negative

[seagal]

Originally Posted by postmodel

Full disclosure: top image is a cell phone pic of my tv (hence the slight crookedness, I’m just sitting here haha) and should not represent grain structure, colors, etc…my intent is to show the framing compared to the old Blu-ray.

Fuller disclosure: y’all scare me with your technical reviews. But judging by the old Blu-ray caps I like the 4K more and yes, there is grain. It’s just not the 1974 grain heaven picture that I was anticipating based on the era, which leads me to believe there has been some grain management going on. I haven’t watched the accompanying Blu-ray though to compare and I never watched the previous blu.

I always thought that the guy with the hat has a great bad guy face.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As RAH says though, an interpositive still carries the orange mask so at first glance...? There's something similar going on with Another 48 Hrs, at a certain point the 4K transfer reverts to what is clearly a lower gen source than the OG negative (could be interpositive, could even be an internegative) and it stays that way for the rest of the movie. For such a recent-ish show that's downright bizarre, but either the OG neg from that point got so badly damaged somehow that it had to be replaced outright, or indeed there's some mislabelling going on and no-one noticed that the rest of it wasn't OG neg.

But an original negative requires inversion because white will appear as black and black will appear as white. The interpositive will already be inverted and that should be visible despite the orange mask. If whoever working on these new remasters doesn't know this then they're becoming even more clueless than I thought.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You couldn’t screen an interpositive to actually ‘watch it’ though because it carries the colour masking…just like a negative

Plus it wouldn't have a soundtrack so it wouldn't be an enjoyable experience LOL.