Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Jack Torrence

Until Lucas backs down and agrees to put the ORIGINAL trilogy, the theatrical releases, on blu-ray, the LASERDISCS of the Trilogy (the THX Definitive Collection) and the "Faces" CLV transfers released in the mid 90s are still THE BEST EXISTING ways to view the theatrical releases. I am so glad I have had these laserdiscs for about 18 years now and kept my laserdisc players and discs. While all you putzes are pining for the real thing, I have been enjoying the real thing for almost 2 decades.

I laughed while you bozos were watching Star Wars on pan and scan VHS tapes and I am still laughing because you had the inferior DVD releases and now no original trilogy on BR either.

VIVA LASERDISC! VIVA THE BEST WAY----STILL---TO VIEW THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!!!

A few years back, in one of the many quadruple dips into the SW universe, i bought the original trilogy on DVD - apparently they are the unaltered, theatrical versions...

The box set contained the tinkered-with versions as well as the original ones.

[nmycon]

Originally Posted by Templar

A few years back, in one of the many quadruple dips into the SW universe, i bought the original trilogy on DVD - apparently they are the unaltered, theatrical versions...

The box set contained the tinkered-with versions as well as the original ones.

He's saying the Laserdiscs look better than the versions included on the DVD. Both the LD and DVD transfers come from the same master, I don't have the LDs (would like to get them ) but for all I know they may very well look better.

Really, wouldn't the 80's letterboxed laserdiscs be closer to the Theatrical versions than the 1993 or 1995 sets. Since I'm sure there were subtle changes made between '77 and '93:

For Episode IV (not sure about the other 2):

- "Episode IV: A New Hope" is present on EVERY home video release, but wasn't on the 1977 theatrical print
- Threepio's "Tractor Beam" line was omitted from the 1993 and 1995 releases.
- The original '77 mono audio track contains tons of alternate takes of dialog. Aunt Beru's lines were overdubbed by another actor for the mono track!
- "Close the blast doors!" was present in the mono mix, but was omitted until the 1997 SE
- It's worth noting that Ben Burtt remixed the sound in for the '85 VHS/LD release. So you need a pre-85 VHS release to get the closest to the theatrical audio.
- Audio remixed yet again for the 1993 release
- Colour timing changed in certain scenes (R2 in Tatooine Canyon)

The first pressing of '93 Empire Strikes Back (from Definitive Edition) is missing 10 seconds of video for some reason.

The audio and colour timing would have been changed for all 3 films. So yes, while the 1995 and 1995 Laserdiscs are nice to own (wish I had them)...

The closest to the theatrical versions, they are not.

I think the closest you could possibly get (for A New Hope) would be to play a 1992 Letterboxed laserdisc (same as the '89 release, but fixed the matting issue) with the audio of the original VHS release. (The original Betamax tape has mono audio, but I think it's just a folddown, rather than the theatrical audio track)

For ESB it would be the '89 release and ROTJ the '90 release. Both with the audio from the original VHS release.

That would be the absolute closest to the original trilogy you would be able to get, without actually editing the material yourself.

[adywan]

Originally Posted by nmycon

Really, wouldn't the 80's letterboxed laserdiscs be closer to the Theatrical versions than the 1993 or 1995 sets. Since I'm sure there were subtle changes made between '77 and '93:

Star Wars:
- the addition of Threepio's "Tractor Beam" line (wasn't in the 1977 theatrical release) -
- "Close the blast doors!" was added to the 1993 LDs (and all future releases) -

These lines were present in 35mm mono mixes of the film in its 1977 theatrical release (which more people would have seen the movies presented this way because there weren't as cinemas were equipped with dolby stereo sound systems as there were with mono only systems).

[nmycon]

Originally Posted by adywan

These lines were present in 35mm mono mixes of the film in its 1977 theatrical release (which more people would have seen the movies presented this way because there weren't as cinemas were equipped with dolby stereo sound systems as there were with mono only systems).

Ahh ok. Thanks for the info I'm still a bit fuzzy on some of the smaller audio differences, but learning

How did you manage to get your hands on the mono mix for your remastering project?

As far as I know, all of the VHS and Laserdisc releases had stereo... did you have to reconstruct it yourself?

Also, do you know if the original Betamax release of Star Wars is the theatrical mono mix, or just a folddown of the VHS stereo?

I just picked up "The Story of Star Wars" on vinyl today, it uses the mono mix. Some of the laser effects and explosions sound quite different. Sadly it skips pretty badly, I'll have to look for a replacement.

[adywan]

Originally Posted by nmycon

Ahh ok. Thanks for the info I'm still a bit fuzzy on some of the smaller audio differences, but learning

How did you manage to get your hands on the mono mix for your remastering project?

As far as I know, all of the VHS and Laserdisc releases had stereo... did you have to reconstruct it yourself?

Also, do you know if the original Betamax release of Star Wars is the theatrical mono mix, or just a folddown of the VHS stereo?

I just picked up "The Story of Star Wars" on vinyl today, it uses the mono mix. Some of the laser effects and explosions sound quite different. Sadly it skips pretty badly, I'll have to look for a replacement.

The mono mix has never been made available on any of the commercial releases. This mix however appeared on a UK ITV broadcast in the 1980s and a recording of it surfaced and was restored by a fan called belbucus. The mono mix was considered the finished version of the mix as this the one that was completed last for the theatrical release.

[Jack Torrence]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Nope.

Viewed on a 100" screen with DLA projection the DVD "extras" of the OT look superior, even when zoomed to fit the screen's 16:9 ratio. Video noise: gone. No flipping/changing discs.

None of that CLV-CAV nonsense either.

Plus they haven't rotted like my THX CAV set.

The only advantage the LDs have is the PCM 2 channel tracks. But the tradeoffs I listed above render it moot (to me anyway).

Same results on a 34" XBR tube and a 60" SXRD RPTV. The DVDs, even non-anamorphic, still look cleaner and crisper than the LDs (on a Pioneer 704).

You need to upgrade your laserdisc player. The Star Wars THX Faces discs through an Elite 97 on a SONY 36XS955 hidef CRT tube look every bit as good or better than the "bonus" dvd set Lucas slapped on as an afterthought on the Special Editions back in the mid 90s. And guess what---they are simply LD transfers from those very same LDs. With INFERIOR SOUND. By definition, they can't be better---they are just laserdisc dupes, and they are nonanamorphic anyway. So why mess with that when you can see the originals with much better sound? Doesn't make sense.

I could care less what something looks like on a 100" screen. I watch LDs on my CRT tube TV and the Star Wars discs look stunning. LDs weren't meant to be watched on a 100" screen without a line doubler. Waste of time.

Sorry to hear about your Def Edition CAV set rotting. I have two pristine ones with no rot.

[Jack Torrence]

Originally Posted by Templar

A few years back, in one of the many quadruple dips into the SW universe, i bought the original trilogy on DVD - apparently they are the unaltered, theatrical versions...

The box set contained the tinkered-with versions as well as the original ones.

yes, those bonus discs slapped onto the Special Edition ones are nonanamorphic copies of-----the laserdiscs I just mentioned above. They are simply laserdisc dupes with inferior sound. Again, the BEST version of the unaltered trilogy is STILL the CAV Def Ed box and the CLV Faces set from the mid 90s.

[Jack Torrence]

Originally Posted by nmycon

He's saying the Laserdiscs look better than the versions included on the DVD. Both the LD and DVD transfers come from the same master, I don't have the LDs (would like to get them ) but for all I know they may very well look better.

They do look better IMO. I have both. Yes they are transfers from those very THX laserdiscs. And of course, the DVD has far INFERIOR sound.

Really, wouldn't the 80's letterboxed laserdiscs be closer to the Theatrical versions than the 1993 or 1995 sets. Since I'm sure there were subtle changes made between '77 and '93:

For Episode IV (not sure about the other 2):

- "Episode IV: A New Hope" is present on EVERY home video release, but wasn't on the 1977 theatrical print
- Threepio's "Tractor Beam" line was omitted from the 1993 and 1995 releases.
- The original '77 mono audio track contains tons of alternate takes of dialog. Aunt Beru's lines were overdubbed by another actor for the mono track!
- "Close the blast doors!" was present in the mono mix, but was omitted until the 1997 SE
- It's worth noting that Ben Burtt remixed the sound in for the '85 VHS/LD release. So you need a pre-85 VHS release to get the closest to the theatrical audio.
- Audio remixed yet again for the 1993 release
- Colour timing changed in certain scenes (R2 in Tatooine Canyon)

I have the previous non THX letterboxed laserdiscs also (from the US and the Japanese set)(as well as the original Jap. and US LD releases). There may have been some subtle changes done for the 1993 Def Ed box set, but those changes were carried through to the Special Editions anyway. What I am saying is that the Laserdiscs (the Def Ed box and the CLV Faces discs) are the CLOSEST and BEST version of the Original Trilogy available. Better than the DVD release thrown in as bonus discs.

The first pressing of '93 Empire Strikes Back (from Definitive Edition) is missing 10 seconds of video for some reason.

That was fixed on subsequent Def Ed box sets, and the CLV Faces discs.

The audio and colour timing would have been changed for all 3 films. So yes, while the 1995 and 1995 Laserdiscs are nice to own (wish I had them)...

The closest to the theatrical versions, they are not.

Wrong. They ARE the closest to the theatrical versions AVAILABLE on home video. You keep missing the point.

I think the closest you could possibly get (for A New Hope) would be to play a 1992 Letterboxed laserdisc (same as the '89 release, but fixed the matting issue) with the audio of the original VHS release. (The original Betamax tape has mono audio, but I think it's just a folddown, rather than the theatrical audio track)

For ESB it would be the '89 release and ROTJ the '90 release. Both with the audio from the original VHS release.

That would be the absolute closest to the original trilogy you would be able to get, without actually editing the material yourself.

That is not what I was talking about. What you described is NOT AVAILABLE on a home video product without editing and cobbling together bits and pieces of things here and there. Once again, THE LASERDISC VERSIONS from 1993 and 1995 are the CLOSEST HOME VIDEO RELEASES WE HAVE TO THE ORIGINAL THEATRICAL VERSIONS.

------

[Jack Torrence]

Originally Posted by adywan

These lines were present in 35mm mono mixes of the film in its 1977 theatrical release (which more people would have seen the movies presented this way because there weren't as cinemas were equipped with dolby stereo sound systems as there were with mono only systems).

I saw all the Star Wars movies in theaters in gorgeous Dolby Stereo when they came out. I can't imagine listening to those in mono. I would have felt cheated. That was one of big selling points of the movie, and I saw it in the best equipped theater possible. I feel sorry for anyone that missed out on that theater experience.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jack Torrence

By definition, they can't be better---they are just laserdisc dupes, and they are nonanamorphic anyway. So why mess with that when you can see the originals with much better sound? Doesn't make sense.

Her's where you get it completely wrong.

The masters for both the LD the DVD versions are NOT LaserDiscs, it is digital tape. They didn't dub an LD to DVD.

They also tweaked the master to include the original crawl of Star Wars: no "Episode IV: A NEW HOPE" lines.

They look better: component format, no added color noise, no analog artifacts. I invite anyone to run them side by side on a calibrated monitor.

[adywan]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Her's where you get it completely wrong.

The masters for both the LD the DVD versions are NOT LaserDiscs, it is digital tape. They didn't dub an LD to DVD.

They also tweaked the master to include the original crawl of Star Wars: no "Episode IV: A NEW HOPE" lines.

They look better: component format, no added color noise, no analog artifacts. I invite anyone to run them side by side on a calibrated monitor.

It depends on which version of the laserdisc you are watching and the quality of your player. The 93 versions, which the master version was used for the 2006 bonus discs suffers badly with digital noise reduction smearing. It has destroyed a lot of detail. It also suffers terribly with bad anti-aliasing problems too.

Here are some examples. Now the laserdisc snapshots weren't captured from a high end laserdisc player and no sharpening or any other processing was done to the pictures.

2006 bonus disc

laserdisc capture:

2006 bonus disc

laserdisc capture:

2006 bonus disc

laserdisc capture:

2006 bonus disc (how many eyes does a stormtrooper have?)

laserdisc capture:

[Chordata]

Realized this weekend that I have about 130 unopened SW action figures from the 1995-2000 timeframe (doesn't include vehicles, beast assortments, cinema scene packs, etc., which include figures) in storage.

Can't wait for my young kids to see and open these suckers. It'll be like my dream Christmas from when I was a kid.

Appears that some of them sell for lots of $$, which was the hope when I bought them years ago, but I'd rather let the kiddos play with them.

[Jack Torrence]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Her's where you get it completely wrong.

The masters for both the LD the DVD versions are NOT LaserDiscs, it is digital tape. They didn't dub an LD to DVD.

They also tweaked the master to include the original crawl of Star Wars: no "Episode IV: A NEW HOPE" lines.

They look better: component format, no added color noise, no analog artifacts. I invite anyone to run them side by side on a calibrated monitor.

I already ran a comparison. You are wrong. The LDs look just as good if not better, and the sound of course crushes the DVDs. The DVDs were COPIES of the laserdisc. Its just a dupe.

You are wrong. Deal with it.

[Jack Torrence]

Originally Posted by adywan

It depends on which version of the laserdisc you are watching and the quality of your player. The 93 versions, which the master version was used for the 2006 bonus discs suffers badly with digital noise reduction smearing. It has destroyed a lot of detail. It also suffers terribly with bad anti-aliasing problems too.

Here are some examples. Now the laserdisc snapshots weren't captured from a high end laserdisc player and no sharpening or any other processing was done to the pictures.

2006 bonus disc

laserdisc capture:

2006 bonus disc

laserdisc capture:

2006 bonus disc

laserdisc capture:

2006 bonus disc (how many eyes does a stormtrooper have?)

laserdisc capture:

I rest my case. And the LD look even better on a great LD player like an Elite 97 through its composite output. Some people need to upgrade their LD player. LMAO.

[Jack Torrence]

Until Lucas backs down and agrees to put the ORIGINAL trilogy, the theatrical releases, on blu-ray, the LASERDISCS of the Trilogy (the THX Definitive Collection) and the "Faces" CLV transfers released in the mid 90s are still THE BEST EXISTING ways to view the theatrical releases. I am so glad I have had these laserdiscs for about 18 years now and kept my laserdisc players and discs. While all you putzes are pining for the real thing, I have been enjoying the real thing for almost 2 decades.

I laughed while you bozos were watching Star Wars on pan and scan VHS tapes and I am still laughing because you had the inferior DVD releases and now no original trilogy on BR either.

VIVA LASERDISC! VIVA THE BEST WAY----STILL---TO VIEW THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!!!

[Blu-man08]

Originally Posted by Jack Torrence

Until Lucas backs down and agrees to put the ORIGINAL trilogy, the theatrical releases, on blu-ray, the LASERDISCS of the Trilogy (the THX Definitive Collection) and the "Faces" CLV transfers released in the mid 90s are still THE BEST EXISTING ways to view the theatrical releases. I am so glad I have had these laserdiscs for about 18 years now and kept my laserdisc players and discs. While all you putzes are pining for the real thing, I have been enjoying the real thing for almost 2 decades.

I laughed while you bozos were watching Star Wars on pan and scan VHS tapes and I am still laughing because you had the inferior DVD releases and now no original trilogy on BR either.

VIVA LASERDISC! VIVA THE BEST WAY----STILL---TO VIEW THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!!!

That's alright. When your LD collection gives way to laser rot and your equipment breaks down with no replacements in sight, we'll be laughing right back at you because you had the inferior technology.

[Jack Torrence]

Originally Posted by Blu-man08

That's alright. When your LD collection gives way to laser rot and your equipment breaks down with no replacements in sight, we'll be laughing right back at you because you had the inferior technology.

If the discs don't have laserrot by now, they won't ever have it. On top of that I have multiple copies of the Def Ed box set AND the CLV Faces discs. On top of that, I have multiple LD players. On top of that, I have been watching the original trilogy now in the BEST POSSIBLE home video versions for 18 years, while dorkniblets like you are playing with yourself. Bwwwhhhaaaahhhhaaaaa. On top of that, if Lucas never puts the original trilogy on Blu-Ray, you will NEVER have the best versions UNLESS you have laserdisc. Bwwwhhhaaaaahhhhaahhhaa.

[Deciazulado]

why respond to someone that has been banned?

If you didn't do that these things wouldn't carry on for pages.

This one has the right idea:

Originally Posted by ApolloOne

Guys, I'm sure you realize that taking the bait and engaging in conversations only encourages them.

[Mavrick]

Could someone explain this thread to me? I have no idea how I even came to be subscribed to this thread.....

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

Could someone explain this thread to me? I have no idea how I even came to be subscribed to this thread.....

It's a thread about the Star Wars movies. No idea why someone renamed it to include "UOT Strikes Back" and "Pez dispensers".