JJ's Year 12: First Year of the New HT in a New House

[JJ]

Originally Posted by HAMP

If your into the show 'The Walking dead', then rent the game called 'Dead Island'. If you have time

Video games?! What are those?! I haven't even beaten Dead Space 2 yet, or started Resistance 3!

In any case, first things first for mods. Going 7.1. Here's the plan of attack. I'm going to run speaker wire as such:

Follow the uhh, orange line there. Behind everything like how the current Right Rear is wired...around the bases and loft railings...









And then, drill through the drywall overlooking the living room from the loft to run cable through to the speakers on the otherside:



Which is the eventual look. Whether that thing in the middle is: A. A very cleverly masqueraded acoustical panel or B. Art or a poster of some kind - is dependent on WAF. GAF, rather, sorry. I'll see if I can sneak in some sneaky lighting or some such like I'm famous for.

Also, while I'm in the loft, I'm going to run an Ethernet cable (thanks, Lou, ) down to the PS3 following the same line - it'll all be hidden behind the same type of wire runner I use for the current surrounds while it's against drywall. I get only 5 Mbps wireless down there, not enough for full HD from Netflix or for good streaming, so...wired it is!

I'm down to either Wharfedales (Opus surrounds now, no longer Evos) or MAs, BRFX or BFX.

That center thing has the potential to be something special, though - a "Oooh! Ahhh!" moment when you look up at it.

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by JJ

Video games?! What are those?! I haven't even beaten Dead Space 2 yet, or started Resistance 3!

In any case, first things first for mods. Going 7.1. Here's the plan of attack. I'm going to run speaker wire as such:

Follow the uhh, orange line there. Behind everything like how the current Right Rear is wired...around the bases and loft railings...

And then, drill through the drywall overlooking the living room from the loft to run cable through to the speakers on the otherside:



Which is the eventual look. Whether that thing in the middle is: A. A very cleverly masqueraded acoustical panel or B. Art or a poster of some kind - is dependent on WAF. GAF, rather, sorry. I'll see if I can sneak in some sneaky lighting or some such like I'm famous for.

Also, while I'm in the loft, I'm going to run an Ethernet cable (thanks, Lou, ) down to the PS3 following the same line - it'll all be hidden behind the same type of wire runner I use for the current surrounds while it's against drywall. I get only 5 Mbps wireless down there, not enough for full HD from Netflix or for good streaming, so...wired it is!

I'm down to either Wharfedales (Opus surrounds now, no longer Evos) or MAs, BRFX or BFX.

That center thing has the potential to be something special, though - a "Oooh! Ahhh!" moment when you look up at it.

JJ go look at my gallery. I originally had my speakers firing out from the higher wall in my home and I really was not able to hear the surrounds very well. I had a plant shelf made where I was able to reposition the speakers to fire down toward the chairs. Sort of like ceiling speakers. I am not suggestion you do it the way I did it but you might want to take into consideration to build some sort of box so that you can at least angle the speakers down to the listening area (say 45 degrees).

[HAMP]

It looks like it would be better this way.

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DSC_3363.jpg

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

JJ go look at my gallery. I originally had my speakers firing out from the higher wall in my home and I really was not able to hear the surrounds very well. I had a plant shelf made where I was able to reposition the speakers to fire down toward the chairs. Sort of like ceiling speakers. I am not suggestion you do it the way I did it but you might want to take into consideration to build some sort of box so that you can at least angle the speakers down to the listening area (say 45 degrees).

Bi/di-pole are not designed to be angled down like that or the sound aimed at the listener.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

JJ go look at my gallery. I originally had my speakers firing out from the higher wall in my home and I really was not able to hear the surrounds very well. I had a plant shelf made where I was able to reposition the speakers to fire down toward the chairs. Sort of like ceiling speakers. I am not suggestion you do it the way I did it but you might want to take into consideration to build some sort of box so that you can at least angle the speakers down to the listening area (say 45 degrees).

I'm expecting the GAF to go nuts when I suggest the idea to begin with. I'm not sure if angling them would make that better! How high above the seating area are yours to begin with?

Mine would be - the little red circle there is my ear - 8'0" exactly to the centerline of the drivers in the surrounds backs. I am honestly not sure of how it will sound. But given all the reflective surfaces I have, the dipoles are really the only way to go. You can't pinpoint surround effects too well at all. Really immersive with just those 2 I have now.

Originally Posted by HAMP

It looks like it would be better this way.

I'm thinking that - there's just the little issue of getting them through that one part of the top left corner of the blinds w/o going around them somehow - and I'm not sure if having a big ol' runner right THERE would be gaf approved.

Either way, I need a ladder...

Yo, I HATE having to consider GAF now.

Originally Posted by HAMP

Bi/di-pole are not designed to be angled down like that or the sound aimed at the listener.

At my old place, I had the tweeters aimed at 2'6" above the ear. This would be a 3x+ jump. But yes, Hamps is right here.

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by JJ

I'm expecting the GAF to go nuts when I suggest the idea to begin with. I'm not sure if angling them would make that better! How high above the seating area are yours to begin with?
Mine would be - the little red circle there is my ear - 8'0" exactly to the centerline of the drivers in the surrounds backs. I am honestly not sure of how it will sound. But given all the reflective surfaces I have, the dipoles are really the only way to go. You can't pinpoint surround effects too well at all. Really immersive with just those 2 I have now.





I'm thinking that - there's just the little issue of getting them through that one part of the top left corner of the blinds w/o going around them somehow - and I'm not sure if having a big ol' runner right THERE would be gaf approved.

Either way, I need a ladder...

Yo, I HATE having to consider GAF now.



At my old place, I had the tweeters aimed at 2'6" above the ear. This would be a 3x+ jump. But yes, Hamps is right here.

Originally mine were set about 10 feet high. They were... in wall direct radiating speakers... not dipole speakers. So they were firing directly into the room and I did not get a sense of surround sound. You might have a better sense of surround since you are contemplating dipole speakers.

If she really is the one you better get use to it now instead of later.

[Aerodude73]

Good idea for the 7.1 setup. Dipole (or Bipole) Surrounds should work wonderful in that design. I know many say the Side and/or Rear Surrounds should be around 2-3' above your Ear, but those REAR Surrounds up high on the wall, how much higher would those be then the SIDE Surrounds? Either way, once you Calibrate it all

[Show spoiler](via an SPL Meter or whatever you have already)

, everything should be taken into account by the system accordingly Anyway to make things sound the way they should.

Good luck. When is this plan set to go down? By the end of ____________ ?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Aerodude73

Good idea for the 7.1 setup. Dipole (or Bipole) Surrounds should work wonderful in that design. I know many say the Side and/or Rear Surrounds should be around 2-3' above your Ear, but those REAR Surrounds up high on the wall, how much higher would those be then the SIDE Surrounds? Either way, once you Calibrate it all

[Show spoiler](via an SPL Meter or whatever you have already)

, everything should be taken into account by the system accordingly Anyway to make things sound the way they should.

Good luck. When is this plan set to go down? By the end of ____________ ?

This weekend I'll run the speaker and ethernet wires and place and paint the runner. I'm still shopping for the perfect 6th and 7th channel and centerpiece for the railing.

I use the MCACC mike and my own SPL for calibration. But I tweak it after that anyway to suit my own taste. I've never followed [receiver] calibrations religiously.

Steve, you can see the placement of the 4th and 5th channels in that same side interior elevation - they're the squares with a horizontal line running through them. 1'6" above ear level are the tweeters.

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

Originally mine were set about 10 feet high. They were... in wall direct radiating speakers... not dipole speakers. So they were firing directly into the room and I did not get a sense of surround sound. You might have a better sense of surround since you are contemplating dipole speakers.

If she really is the one you better get use to it now instead of later.

Ah, see, that may be it. A lot of wire length, the speakers, the power itself could've been factors in the sound there.

I'm getting used to it! The dividing line between domains runs from 1st to 2nd floors, so I need to confirm,

Should be okay, though!

EDIT: Got four of my trusty CDs ready to go audition the GET Triton Twos and B&W CMs tomorrow morning.

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by JJ

This weekend I'll run the speaker and ethernet wires and place and paint the runner. I'm still shopping for the perfect 6th and 7th channel and centerpiece for the railing.

I use the MCACC mike and my own SPL for calibration. But I tweak it after that anyway to suit my own taste. I've never followed [receiver] calibrations religiously.

Steve, you can see the placement of the 4th and 5th channels in that same side interior elevation - they're the squares with a horizontal line running through them. 1'6" above ear level are the tweeters.

EDIT: Got four of my trusty CDs ready to go audition the GET Triton Twos and B&W CMs tomorrow morning.

Right, I've seen other guys mention MCACC & I too "tweak" things after for my own tastes (which inevitably get re-tweaked at Least a few more times as you hear things along the way).

[JJ]

Back from work and back from auditioning.

About to put forth my dissertation on my thoughts once I get settled in.


Testing Control Items:

- Source: m4a ALACs from a Mac Mini
- DAC: Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2
- Power: Classe CT-M600 600W Monoblocks
- Cables: Transparent Audio Interconnects

Speakers:

1. Control B&W 683s
2. B&W CM9s
3. Golden Ear Technology Triton 2s

Music:
Phil Collins, Barenaked Ladies, Pink Floyd, John Williams, Kenny Loggins, Beethoven







And here I go...

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by JJ

Back from work and back from auditioning.

About to put forth my dissertation on my thoughts once I get settled in.

Hi JJ you did not miss much on the site today. It's been down since 11:30 and just came up and I think you were the first to post.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

Hi JJ you did not miss much on the site today. It's been down since 11:30 and just came up and I think you were the first to post.

Hey Al!

What, so everyone had to actually work today?

Figures the one day I wasn't even near a computer until an hour ago this happens...

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by JJ

Hey Al!

What, so everyone had to actually work today?

Figures the one day I wasn't even near a computer until an hour ago this happens...

It's all your fault. I like the selection of music you used for the auditions.

[JJ]

Testing Control Items:
- Source: m4a ALACs from a Mac Mini
- DAC: Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2
- Power: Classe CT-M600 600W Monoblocks
- Cables: Transparent Audio Interconnects

Speakers (toed in, 12' apart):
1. Control B&W 683s
2. B&W CM9s
3. Golden Ear Technology Triton 2s

Music:
Phil Collins, Barenaked Ladies, Pink Floyd, John Williams, Kenny Loggins, Beethoven

This particular hi-fi store is where I first got the idea for B&Ws in the first place - I passed by in the summer of 2008 when I was doing my research, I had gone in solely for Paradigms, but me and the salesman ended up talking B&Ws, had a quick demo, and I was hooked - 3 months later, they were purchased. So I figured I'd return to the scene of the crime for my auditions - passed by last week and made the appointment for today to audition the Triton 2s and the CM9s.

Yesterday, while I was listening to some CDs I'm very familiar with - (Top Gun soundtrack SACD, DSOTM SACD, SW Ep 3 and Master & Commander soundtrack) - it occurred to me that given the ridiculously different acoustics between my living room and their auditioning room, I should have some sort of control, so I called in and setup so that we could do the three speakers, 683s serving as a control, then CM9s, then the T2s. It made sense - that way I wouldn't be comparing apples to kumquats or whatever the phrase is. Mangoes to boysenberries? Something like that. So this morning, grabbed my iPad for notes, the four CDs above, and went to the dealer.

It turns out they had gone mainly digital - they had Rockport Miras hooked up to Krell (or was it Mark Levinson?) amps last week, but put up the Classe CT M600 amps for me. Another reason I wanted to use the 683s as control - the wiring, power, source would all be different. Bananas to cantaloupes again. As they were digital, they had no CD player hooked up and ready to go ( ) - but we went through the iTunes on their Mac Mini and I selected the artists above and we were on our way.

683s were up first, and I was already quite familiar with them. Nothing new to note - they honestly didn't sound too different from how I had them set up in my old house. But I could begin to hear the drivers instead of the music. This has started to happen to me lately. I could identify when notes were coming out of the tweeters, out of the midrange. But, being my babies, I didn't really mind. It was only when I was listening to music. Bass was good, and the soundstage was defined. I knew these speakers. So after only a few songs, we switched out. I had my basis.

The GoldenEars were next. These are heralded as the second coming, apparently. You'd think Sandy Gross and them had written all the reviews online themselves or bought off the magazines, considering how well the T2s are reviewed. Awards and accolades left and right. $2500 MSRP for the pair, ribbonish tweeters, and a 1200-watt amp that "drives two 5”x 9” front-mounted quadratic subwoofer bass drivers which are coupled to dual side-mounted 7”x10” quadratic planar infrasonic bass radiators." So, plugged in, and let's go.

First of all, I want to state that I HATE how folks review speakers sometimes. I'm an architect (or am now, actually , finally) - but reading how architects describe their buildings is exactly how companies describe their speakers - using superfluous adjectives and ridiculous metaphors that sometimes leave me wondering if I'm sampling a wine instead of listening to a melody. Very rarely do I see negative reviews of speakers above $600 to begin with outside of a few critical notes. So I tend to dismiss a lot of hyperbole as just that. I prefer the reviews of regular folks - but then the catch being, of course, that the average speaker owner thinks that their brand is the greatest thing since sliced bread. And why not? We each have different ears.

With the T2s, I was most excited to hear those tweeters and the powered subs. I've always been a cone and dome guy with a separate powered sub, so this was a new field for me. I will try to restrict my exaggerations, but the Tritons blew my 683s out of the water. There was no speaker there. Not just because the room was dimmed and the T2s disappeared from view, but there really was no distinction as to a "speaker" like I've recently realized w/ my 683s. The bass - coming from a Dynamo w/ a limited LFE, and a powerful but unrefined AA - I was surprised. The T2s deliver bass. Organs, tubas, drums, bass guitars. Holy cow, fellas. Holy cow. Why the heck do I need a subwoofer anymore? But I was moreso taken aback by the tweeters. Voices sounded a hundred times better. There was a…goodness, how do I put this without sounding like a jackass…a certain "brightness, metallic" quality to the 683s that didn't come across on the T2s. I didn't know any better back then, so it was a "Oh, what the hell" situation. But now - this was my favorite part of the T2s. The tweeters. That high frequency range was soooo delicious. Treble you could just eat up all day, to make another silly analogy. I find it hard to explain without delving into the absurd. The ribbonish tweeters were just incredible - the voices, guys. The voices on the songs. My goodness.

In any case, after a good 20 minutes w/ the T2s, we switched out to the CMs. $3000/pr for the 9s. Started off with the same Phil Collins song we had ended with on the T2s - can't recall the title. Instruments sounded great, bass was almost as powerful. Then Phil started singing. "Shut it off," I told Greg, the salesman. "It's a wrap." It was immediate. Listening to the same song on the CMs was an earache. That same kind of "metallicky brightness" was there on the CMs, and my ears picked up on it immediately. It hurt. It was bothersome. It didn't sound natural. At all. I was SHOCKED. I was a B&W fanboy after all - I honestly expected that just for loyalty's sake I'd end up w/ piano white CM9s anyway. Not anymore. I just couldn't listen to these tweeters anymore after having heard the ribbonish ones on the T2s. When I say that my reaction to the differences was instant…it sounded much more natural and "real" with the GoldenEars. I was hooked. That was it. The CMs, to me, sounded just a few smidges better than the 683s. I felt as if I was paying moreso for the beautiful finish and the name.

Afterwards, we discussed my gear, their gear, they had a falling out with WilsonAudio and brought in Rockports, discussed music and room acoustics some more, a few words on the Fathoms I saw in the listening room - but my head was spinning on the inside. He really wanted to know about Emotiva, having heard about it but had no first person experience. We spoke about the other brands I wanted to pick up - how electrostats and Maggies weren't practical for me right now, Monitor Audio Silver and Gold series, Dali, Rega, and Von Schweikert. He owned MA Silver series himself due to having worked at Sound Advice a few years back. Said there was no comparison to the T2s, and that he had been selling them like hotcakes. We also got into a good discussion about what we feel is a "lifestyle" m.o. with B&W lately. We didn't discuss price - I wasn't ready to buy and made that known, but wondered how much I could sell my 600 line for. But so far on my short list, the Triton 2s are definitely at the top.

[DerrellB]

Your thoughts on the CM series is what Landryp2000 and I and most have come to when we demoed them. For the price, they are not as far apart from the 683s then you woudl think.

[JJ]

Derrell, I was taken aback. Definitely nowhere near $1600 worth of an audible difference. This is apparently a consensus? Wow.

[DerrellB]

Originally Posted by JJ

Derrell, I was taken aback. Definitely nowhere near $1600 worth of an audible difference. This is apparently a consensus? Wow.

There was a discussion about them in LD's thread I think and a few people commented. Landry and I were demoing speakers for my current 2 channel system and listened to the cm series bookies and floorstanders and the the bookies from with series with the 683's. We came out unimpressed with the CM line as a whole. They are a good speaker, but not much better than the 683's in our opinion. The look of them does allure you in and just makes you want to like them though. I know it did to me. lol

[Intamin]

Originally Posted by JJ

Testing Control Items:
- Source: m4a ALACs from a Mac Mini
- DAC: Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2
- Power: Classe CT-M600 600W Monoblocks
- Cables: Transparent Audio Interconnects

Speakers (toed in, 12' apart):
1. Control B&W 683s
2. B&W CM9s
3. Golden Ear Technology Triton 2s

Music:
Phil Collins, Barenaked Ladies, Pink Floyd, John Williams, Kenny Loggins, Beethoven

This particular hi-fi store is where I first got the idea for B&Ws in the first place - I passed by in the summer of 2008 when I was doing my research, I had gone in solely for Paradigms, but me and the salesman ended up talking B&Ws, had a quick demo, and I was hooked - 3 months later, they were purchased. So I figured I'd return to the scene of the crime for my auditions - passed by last week and made the appointment for today to audition the Triton 2s and the CM9s.

Yesterday, while I was listening to some CDs I'm very familiar with - (Top Gun soundtrack SACD, DSOTM SACD, SW Ep 3 and Master & Commander soundtrack) - it occurred to me that given the ridiculously different acoustics between my living room and their auditioning room, I should have some sort of control, so I called in and setup so that we could do the three speakers, 683s serving as a control, then CM9s, then the T2s. It made sense - that way I wouldn't be comparing apples to kumquats or whatever the phrase is. Mangoes to boysenberries? Something like that. So this morning, grabbed my iPad for notes, the four CDs above, and went to the dealer.

It turns out they had gone mainly digital - they had Rockport Miras hooked up to Krell (or was it Mark Levinson?) amps last week, but put up the Classe CT M600 amps for me. Another reason I wanted to use the 683s as control - the wiring, power, source would all be different. Bananas to cantaloupes again. As they were digital, they had no CD player hooked up and ready to go ( ) - but we went through the iTunes on their Mac Mini and I selected the artists above and we were on our way.

683s were up first, and I was already quite familiar with them. Nothing new to note - they honestly didn't sound too different from how I had them set up in my old house. But I could begin to hear the drivers instead of the music. This has started to happen to me lately. I could identify when notes were coming out of the tweeters, out of the midrange. But, being my babies, I didn't really mind. It was only when I was listening to music. Bass was good, and the soundstage was defined. I knew these speakers. So after only a few songs, we switched out. I had my basis.

The GoldenEars were next. These are heralded as the second coming, apparently. You'd think Sandy Gross and them had written all the reviews online themselves or bought off the magazines, considering how well the T2s are reviewed. Awards and accolades left and right. $2500 MSRP for the pair, ribbonish tweeters, and a 1200-watt amp that "drives two 5”x 9” front-mounted quadratic subwoofer bass drivers which are coupled to dual side-mounted 7”x10” quadratic planar infrasonic bass radiators." So, plugged in, and let's go.

First of all, I want to state that I HATE how folks review speakers sometimes. I'm an architect (or am now, actually , finally) - but reading how architects describe their buildings is exactly how companies describe their speakers - using superfluous adjectives and ridiculous metaphors that sometimes leave me wondering if I'm sampling a wine instead of listening to a melody. Very rarely do I see negative reviews of speakers above $600 to begin with outside of a few critical notes. So I tend to dismiss a lot of hyperbole as just that. I prefer the reviews of regular folks - but then the catch being, of course, that the average speaker owner thinks that their brand is the greatest thing since sliced bread. And why not? We each have different ears.

With the T2s, I was most excited to hear those tweeters and the powered subs. I've always been a cone and dome guy with a separate powered sub, so this was a new field for me. I will try to restrict my exaggerations, but the Tritons blew my 683s out of the water. There was no speaker there. Not just because the room was dimmed and the T2s disappeared from view, but there really was no distinction as to a "speaker" like I've recently realized w/ my 683s. The bass - coming from a Dynamo w/ a limited LFE, and a powerful but unrefined AA - I was surprised. The T2s deliver bass. Organs, tubas, drums, bass guitars. Holy cow, fellas. Holy cow. Why the heck do I need a subwoofer anymore? But I was moreso taken aback by the tweeters. Voices sounded a hundred times better. There was a…goodness, how do I put this without sounding like a jackass…a certain "brightness, metallic" quality to the 683s that didn't come across on the T2s. I didn't know any better back then, so it was a "Oh, what the hell" situation. But now - this was my favorite part of the T2s. The tweeters. That high frequency range was soooo delicious. Treble you could just eat up all day, to make another silly analogy. I find it hard to explain without delving into the absurd. The ribbonish tweeters were just incredible - the voices, guys. The voices on the songs. My goodness.

In any case, after a good 20 minutes w/ the T2s, we switched out to the CMs. $3000/pr for the 9s. Started off with the same Phil Collins song we had ended with on the T2s - can't recall the title. Instruments sounded great, bass was almost as powerful. Then Phil started singing. "Shut it off," I told Greg, the salesman. "It's a wrap." It was immediate. Listening to the same song on the CMs was an earache. That same kind of "metallicky brightness" was there on the CMs, and my ears picked up on it immediately. It hurt. It was bothersome. It didn't sound natural. At all. I was SHOCKED. I was a B&W fanboy after all - I honestly expected that just for loyalty's sake I'd end up w/ piano white CM9s anyway. Not anymore. I just couldn't listen to these tweeters anymore after having heard the ribbonish ones on the T2s. When I say that my reaction to the differences was instant…it sounded much more natural and "real" with the GoldenEars. I was hooked. That was it. The CMs, to me, sounded just a few smidges better than the 683s. I felt as if I was paying moreso for the beautiful finish and the name.

Afterwards, we discussed my gear, their gear, they had a falling out with WilsonAudio and brought in Rockports, discussed music and room acoustics some more, a few words on the Fathoms I saw in the listening room - but my head was spinning on the inside. He really wanted to know about Emotiva, having heard about it but had no first person experience. We spoke about the other brands I wanted to pick up - how electrostats and Maggies weren't practical for me right now, Monitor Audio Silver and Gold series, Dali, Rega, and Von Schweikert. He owned MA Silver series himself due to having worked at Sound Advice a few years back. Said there was no comparison to the T2s, and that he had been selling them like hotcakes. We also got into a good discussion about what we feel is a "lifestyle" m.o. with B&W lately. We didn't discuss price - I wasn't ready to buy and made that known, but wondered how much I could sell my 600 line for. But so far on my short list, the Triton 2s are definitely at the top.

Great write up! Like you, I hate most audio reviews; the adjectives used irk me, but I always find myself with a lack of words to describe what I'm hearing. Your views on the CMs pretty much reflect what I heard. Beautiful speakers, but a harsher treble and not very neutral. Sounds like the T2s are winners; I'm intrigued now and will research these guys some more. Good luck with the rest of the search; I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of your impressions with the speakers you audition.

EDIT: Just looked up the Triton 2s, and you should try to audition Def Tech Mythos ST'ss or STS's just to compare. They look to have a very similar design philosophy in a near identical form.

Second Edit: Just read big daddy's post in the Golden Ear thread. No wonder they look almost the same!

Final Edit: Just remembered these speakers, the Evolution Acoustics Micro One. They won best in show at CES, had rave reviews at other audio shows this year, and had more great reviews at RMAF. They're only $2500 too...http://evolutionacoustics.com/mmmicroone.html
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...ll=1#post71114 http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...618-MMMicroOne

"That music for me was simply the best I heard at the show and probably any where else. This was played in Jonathan Tinn's rom by Mike Spitz from ATR who brought with a fully restored and beautiful ATR 102 Arria. Mike played on his machine St James Infirmary by Louis Armstrong at 30ips and it was beyond belief the best thing I have ever heard on tape. Plus these were played through Jonathan's Evolution Acoustics Micromini One. I have never heard such an amazing soundstage let alone through book shelf speakers that were all of $2500." Coming from a guy that owns Wilson X-2 Alexandria's. Might not fit the decor though...

[ZIPPO]

Originally Posted by JJ

Testing Control Items:
- Source: m4a ALACs from a Mac Mini
- DAC: Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2
- Power: Classe CT-M600 600W Monoblocks
- Cables: Transparent Audio Interconnects

Speakers (toed in, 12' apart):
1. Control B&W 683s
2. B&W CM9s
3. Golden Ear Technology Triton 2s

Music:
Phil Collins, Barenaked Ladies, Pink Floyd, John Williams, Kenny Loggins, Beethoven

This particular hi-fi store is where I first got the idea for B&Ws in the first place - I passed by in the summer of 2008 when I was doing my research, I had gone in solely for Paradigms, but me and the salesman ended up talking B&Ws, had a quick demo, and I was hooked - 3 months later, they were purchased. So I figured I'd return to the scene of the crime for my auditions - passed by last week and made the appointment for today to audition the Triton 2s and the CM9s.

Yesterday, while I was listening to some CDs I'm very familiar with - (Top Gun soundtrack SACD, DSOTM SACD, SW Ep 3 and Master & Commander soundtrack) - it occurred to me that given the ridiculously different acoustics between my living room and their auditioning room, I should have some sort of control, so I called in and setup so that we could do the three speakers, 683s serving as a control, then CM9s, then the T2s. It made sense - that way I wouldn't be comparing apples to kumquats or whatever the phrase is. Mangoes to boysenberries? Something like that. So this morning, grabbed my iPad for notes, the four CDs above, and went to the dealer.

It turns out they had gone mainly digital - they had Rockport Miras hooked up to Krell (or was it Mark Levinson?) amps last week, but put up the Classe CT M600 amps for me. Another reason I wanted to use the 683s as control - the wiring, power, source would all be different. Bananas to cantaloupes again. As they were digital, they had no CD player hooked up and ready to go ( ) - but we went through the iTunes on their Mac Mini and I selected the artists above and we were on our way.

683s were up first, and I was already quite familiar with them. Nothing new to note - they honestly didn't sound too different from how I had them set up in my old house. But I could begin to hear the drivers instead of the music. This has started to happen to me lately. I could identify when notes were coming out of the tweeters, out of the midrange. But, being my babies, I didn't really mind. It was only when I was listening to music. Bass was good, and the soundstage was defined. I knew these speakers. So after only a few songs, we switched out. I had my basis.

The GoldenEars were next. These are heralded as the second coming, apparently. You'd think Sandy Gross and them had written all the reviews online themselves or bought off the magazines, considering how well the T2s are reviewed. Awards and accolades left and right. $2500 MSRP for the pair, ribbonish tweeters, and a 1200-watt amp that "drives two 5”x 9” front-mounted quadratic subwoofer bass drivers which are coupled to dual side-mounted 7”x10” quadratic planar infrasonic bass radiators." So, plugged in, and let's go.

First of all, I want to state that I HATE how folks review speakers sometimes. I'm an architect (or am now, actually , finally) - but reading how architects describe their buildings is exactly how companies describe their speakers - using superfluous adjectives and ridiculous metaphors that sometimes leave me wondering if I'm sampling a wine instead of listening to a melody. Very rarely do I see negative reviews of speakers above $600 to begin with outside of a few critical notes. So I tend to dismiss a lot of hyperbole as just that. I prefer the reviews of regular folks - but then the catch being, of course, that the average speaker owner thinks that their brand is the greatest thing since sliced bread. And why not? We each have different ears.

With the T2s, I was most excited to hear those tweeters and the powered subs. I've always been a cone and dome guy with a separate powered sub, so this was a new field for me. I will try to restrict my exaggerations, but the Tritons blew my 683s out of the water. There was no speaker there. Not just because the room was dimmed and the T2s disappeared from view, but there really was no distinction as to a "speaker" like I've recently realized w/ my 683s. The bass - coming from a Dynamo w/ a limited LFE, and a powerful but unrefined AA - I was surprised. The T2s deliver bass. Organs, tubas, drums, bass guitars. Holy cow, fellas. Holy cow. Why the heck do I need a subwoofer anymore? But I was moreso taken aback by the tweeters. Voices sounded a hundred times better. There was a…goodness, how do I put this without sounding like a jackass…a certain "brightness, metallic" quality to the 683s that didn't come across on the T2s. I didn't know any better back then, so it was a "Oh, what the hell" situation. But now - this was my favorite part of the T2s. The tweeters. That high frequency range was soooo delicious. Treble you could just eat up all day, to make another silly analogy. I find it hard to explain without delving into the absurd. The ribbonish tweeters were just incredible - the voices, guys. The voices on the songs. My goodness.

In any case, after a good 20 minutes w/ the T2s, we switched out to the CMs. $3000/pr for the 9s. Started off with the same Phil Collins song we had ended with on the T2s - can't recall the title. Instruments sounded great, bass was almost as powerful. Then Phil started singing. "Shut it off," I told Greg, the salesman. "It's a wrap." It was immediate. Listening to the same song on the CMs was an earache. That same kind of "metallicky brightness" was there on the CMs, and my ears picked up on it immediately. It hurt. It was bothersome. It didn't sound natural. At all. I was SHOCKED. I was a B&W fanboy after all - I honestly expected that just for loyalty's sake I'd end up w/ piano white CM9s anyway. Not anymore. I just couldn't listen to these tweeters anymore after having heard the ribbonish ones on the T2s. When I say that my reaction to the differences was instant…it sounded much more natural and "real" with the GoldenEars. I was hooked. That was it. The CMs, to me, sounded just a few smidges better than the 683s. I felt as if I was paying moreso for the beautiful finish and the name.

Afterwards, we discussed my gear, their gear, they had a falling out with WilsonAudio and brought in Rockports, discussed music and room acoustics some more, a few words on the Fathoms I saw in the listening room - but my head was spinning on the inside. He really wanted to know about Emotiva, having heard about it but had no first person experience. We spoke about the other brands I wanted to pick up - how electrostats and Maggies weren't practical for me right now, Monitor Audio Silver and Gold series, Dali, Rega, and Von Schweikert. He owned MA Silver series himself due to having worked at Sound Advice a few years back. Said there was no comparison to the T2s, and that he had been selling them like hotcakes. We also got into a good discussion about what we feel is a "lifestyle" m.o. with B&W lately. We didn't discuss price - I wasn't ready to buy and made that known, but wondered how much I could sell my 600 line for. But so far on my short list, the Triton 2s are definitely at the top.

VERY GOOD READ!
LMFAO! This is why I don't run a separate sub in my living room, the built-ins in the three front channels are more than enough.

Big Daddy recommended this speaker manufacturer( http://www.htd.com/Products/level-three-speakers ), for affordable ribbon tweeter speakers.
Most big manufacturers are starting to offer ribbon tweeter speakers also.
BTW, the new GoldenEar bookself speakers ( Aon 2 & Aon 3 ) plus their ForceField subs, have a trapezoid shape like your TV stand.

Sandy Gross has the Midas touch when it comes to speakers...
from: http://www.avguide.com/blog/high-per...-part-2?page=1

"As in the Triton Two floorstander, a crucial key to the Aon 3’s sound is the remarkably smooth integration it achieves between its HVFR tweeter and the adjoining mid-bass driver (Heil-type drivers can be tricky to integrate with piston-type drivers, but Gross and Givogue have certainly mastered the art). The other aspect of the speak that caught my ear was its surprisingly deep bass extension, which is pretty remarkable considering its compact size (see photo of Sandy Gross holding the Aon 3 in his arms)."

aon.jpg forceField_overview.jpg

prism_lg.jpg

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Intamin

Great write up! Like you, I hate most audio reviews; the adjectives used irk me, but I always find myself with a lack of words to describe what I'm hearing. Your views on the CMs pretty much reflect what I heard. Beautiful speakers, but a harsher treble and not very neutral. Sounds like the T2s are winners; I'm intrigued now and will research these guys some more. Good luck with the rest of the search; I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of your impressions with the speakers you audition.

EDIT: Just looked up the Triton 2s, and you should try to audition Def Tech Mythos ST'ss or STS's just to compare. They look to have a very similar design philosophy in a near identical form.

Second Edit: Just read big daddy's post in the Golden Ear thread. No wonder they look almost the same!

Final Edit: Just remembered these speakers, the Evolution Acoustics Micro One. They won best in show at CES, had rave reviews at other audio shows this year, and had more great reviews at RMAF. They're only $2500 too...http://evolutionacoustics.com/mmmicroone.html
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...ll=1#post71114 http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...618-MMMicroOne

"That music for me was simply the best I heard at the show and probably any where else. This was played in Jonathan Tinn's rom by Mike Spitz from ATR who brought with a fully restored and beautiful ATR 102 Arria. Mike played on his machine St James Infirmary by Louis Armstrong at 30ips and it was beyond belief the best thing I have ever heard on tape. Plus these were played through Jonathan's Evolution Acoustics Micromini One. I have never heard such an amazing soundstage let alone through book shelf speakers that were all of $2500." Coming from a guy that owns Wilson X-2 Alexandria's. Might not fit the decor though...

Alex, glad we're on the same page. Drives me nuts, the whole thing. I'm really disappointed about the CMs. I wanted to like them. There's no way now I go back to B&W until I'm in the 800 price range, and then I'll audition then.

I've just never been a fan of DefTech for some reason, if they're similar to the T2s, is there even a point?

I sent an email to Jonathan at Blue Light Audio to see if there were any local dealers. Are you kidding? Those speakers look BEAUTIFUL. Red, black, AND white? The spec sheet alone is impressive. $2500 w/ stands puts them right at the level of the T2s.



Alex, I do want to note - I'm about 80% home theater v. 20% music. What do you feel about the differences in this when choosing a speaker? Will a music-oriented speaker still fit into an HT role? I always assumed as much - after all, music is far more detailed than a movie soundtrack...what are your thoughts?

Originally Posted by ZIPPO

VERY GOOD READ!
Sandy Gross has the Midas touch when it comes to speakers...
LMFAO! This is why I don't run a separate sub in my living room, the built-ins in the three front channels are more than enough.

Big Daddy recommended this speaker manufacturer( http://www.htd.com/Products/level-three-speakers ), for affordable ribbon tweeter speakers.
Most big manufacturers are starting to offer ribbon tweeter speakers also.
BTW, the new GoldenEar bookself speakers ( Aon 2 & Aon 3 ) plus their ForceField subs, have a trapezoid shape like your TV stand.
Attachment 39555 Attachment 39556

Attachment 39557

Thanks, Zip! And Sandy really does - I was reading over on avs about how this is his final act and his best. Everything comes in threes, you know.

If I really have no reason to keep the Dynamo, I can sell it too. Along w/ the AA Sub 12 - fund the T2s quicker if I end up going that route. They really are at the top of the list right now. Then again, I've only demo'd two types...

I did notice the "Trapezoid" theme everywhere...