Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by master Gandhi

I don't see how physical media is hassle-free compared to streaming. Streaming is about as hassle-free as it gets IMO. I don't have to worry about scratched discs or manufacturing errors or adding clutter to my shelves (unless we're talking about a sweet-looking steelbook/digibook/lenticular slipcover. Heh).

Originally Posted by tele1962

What you do have to worry about is time spent on film restoration, extras, PQ, none ownership, incorrect aspect ratio, cut versions, no booklets, no commentary, older films being totally ignored or aired in none restored state, grain being stripped from film and so much more. Much more worrying than clutter on shelves i think.

Here we go again with comments against HD Digital when you don't have true access to a High End Provider like Vudu. The only questionable comment is Ownership, but what is Ownership it's all relative, The Studios really own the Movie Rights. You can have the best of all worlds, keep your Disc Collection but don't abandon Video Streaming because when all is said and done Streaming is here to stay.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The only thing, Movie Downloads have restrictions and the Files are compressed for easy handling.

The downloads from iTunes contain exactly the same video stream as the streamed versions.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

I'm not on fiber (I'm on 100mbps cable internet), but I still have very little issues with streaming, and I stream almost everything I watch. I don't have a cable TV provider, just internet, and I hardly ever pop in a disc anymore. I would like to eventually move someplace that has high-end fiber internet, though. I'm thinking Texas perhaps.

Your 100Mbps are more than enough for any of the streams available today. No need for fiber (for this particular application).

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Here we go again with comments against HD Digital when you don't have true access to a High End Provider like Vudu. The only questionable comment is Ownership, but what is Ownership it's all relative, The Studios really own the Movie Rights. You can have the best of all worlds, keep your Disc Collection but don't abandon Video Streaming because when all is said and done Streaming is here to stay.

You say my only questionable comment is regarding ownership, while carefully avoiding all the others. Every downloaded movie is another nail in the coffin of physical media. Also as i said before you are quite wrong regarding your download being of Blu Ray quality.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The only thing, Movie Downloads have restrictions and the Files are compressed for easy handling.

Originally Posted by Fiffy

The downloads from iTunes contain exactly the same video stream as the streamed versions.

Enough said about iTunes, that's where Vudu is superior, they have Variable BitRate according to Bandwidth and Access. So I have Fiber and Direct Trunking to the Vudu Server giving me a Higher BitRate and Blu-ray Quality.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by tele1962

You say my only questionable comment is regarding ownership, while carefully avoiding all the others. Every downloaded movie is another nail in the coffin of physical media. Also as i said before you are quite wrong regarding your download being of Blu Ray quality.

You're right, even with Vudu the Downloads are compressed, but the Streaming Quality with Vudu is according to Bandwidth and Access with their Variable BitRate giving you Blu-ray and UHD.

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right, even with Vudu the Downloads are compressed, but the Streaming Quality with Vudu is according to Bandwidth and Access with their Variable BitRate giving you Blu-ray and UHD.

It really isn't. Try googling blu ray v vudu for a better understanding.
You seem to be avoiding my other points ?

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Enough said about iTunes, that's where Vudu is superior, they have Variable BitRate according to Bandwidth and Access.

They do use adaptive streaming (just like Netflix and many other streaming services), but its purpose is to accommodate customers with slow Internet access like DSL. The maximum bitrate is still limited. I have not found any definitive information on Vudu's web site, but I did some quick measurements on my router which indicate that Vudu HDX streams max out at about 8Mbps (and that includes protocol overhead that downloaded files don't have).

Apple apparently always uses the maximum bitrate when streaming, and as a result customers with slow Internet speeds see longer buffering periods. It's really more like progressive download than streaming. But you can easily avoid problems by downloading the movie first.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by tele1962

What you do have to worry about is time spent on film restoration, extras, PQ, none ownership, incorrect aspect ratio, cut versions, no booklets, no commentary, older films being totally ignored or aired in none restored state, grain being stripped from film and so much more. Much more worrying than clutter on shelves i think.

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right, even with Vudu the Downloads are compressed, but the Streaming Quality with Vudu is according to Bandwidth and Access with their Variable BitRate giving you Blu-ray and UHD.

Originally Posted by tele1962

It really isn't. Try googling blu ray v vudu for a better understanding.
You seem to be avoiding my other points ?

I read those Articles on Google, and most are a few years old, things have changed since then. If you have ever Backed-up and Ripped any DVD or Blu-ray Video Files, and put them on a Server attached to your Home Network. Then Stream these Files to your Home Theater, you would know what I am talking about. Full BitRate uncompressed Video Streaming....It's Possible! As for your other points, some have been addressed like Extras, Cut Versions, Commentary, Older Films, and Restorations. Aspect Ratio has always been a controversial subject, most people don't like the Black Bars but the Film Purist want the best Original Undistorted Quality. Even Blu-ray fails with true Aspect Ratio at times. So Bottom Line Streaming Video will and has replaced Disc, it's just a matter of time. Nobody wants to pay full price for Disc anymore, and they sit on the selves of stores, so if anything this will be the demise of The Disc.

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I read those Articles on Google, and most are a few years old, things have changed since then. If you have ever Backed-up and Ripped any DVD or Blu-ray Video Files, and put them on a Server attached to your Home Network. Then Stream these Files to your Home Theater, you would know what I am talking about. Full BitRate uncompressed Video Streaming....It's Possible! As for your other points, some have been addressed like Extras, Cut Versions, Commentary, Older Films, and Restorations. Aspect Ratio has always been a controversial subject, most people don't like the Black Bars but the Film Purist want the best Original Undistorted Quality. Even Blu-ray fails with true Aspect Ratio at times. So Bottom Line Streaming Video will and has replaced Disc, it's just a matter of time. Nobody wants to pay full price for Disc anymore, and they sit on the selves of stores, so if anything this will be the demise of The Disc.

Not from VUDU it's not, as you claim.

Sorry none have been addressed, you are entirely in the hands of the provider of your streaming service, i say again and will post this link again when will any streaming service provide this (posted a few times now but gone unanswered):

Deep Red - The Arrow Video Story - YouTube

I am guessing you are one of these guys who prefers no film grain and no " black bars " but anyone who cares about PQ which is i am guessing most on here do, would want to see them as intended. If done by people who care about older films aspect ratio will be as close as they can get it, where as with these providers it is what they give you without any care and attention to detail.

PS
What films do you watch?

You are of course entitled to watch what you want, but you are missing out big style with streaming.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I read those Articles on Google, and most are a few years old, things have changed since then. If you have ever Backed-up and Ripped any DVD or Blu-ray Video Files, and put them on a Server attached to your Home Network. Then Stream these Files to your Home Theater, you would know what I am talking about. Full BitRate uncompressed Video Streaming....It's Possible! As for your other points, some have been addressed like Extras, Cut Versions, Commentary, Older Films, and Restorations. Aspect Ratio has always been a controversial subject, most people don't like the Black Bars but the Film Purist want the best Original Undistorted Quality. Even Blu-ray fails with true Aspect Ratio at times. So Bottom Line Streaming Video will and has replaced Disc, it's just a matter of time. Nobody wants to pay full price for Disc anymore, and they sit on the selves of stores, so if anything this will be the demise of The Disc.

If nobody want to pay full price for a disc anymore, then most likely nobody will pay full price for a streamed movie that has lower quality than the blu-ray and you don't actually "own". I'm more likely to pay full price for a blu-ray than a digital movie. I don't think I will be buying digital movies anymore but back when I did I could not justify spending more than $7.99 on a digital movie and even then I kind of had to think it through at that price. Sometimes I'm willing to spend up to $14.99 on a blu-ray, depending on the movie but usually I spend less than $10 on a blu-ray. When you compare buying discs, you should not compare it to subscription streaming, you should compare it to digital purchases.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by tele1962

Not from VUDU it's not, as you claim.

Sorry none have been addressed, you are entirely in the hands of the provider of your streaming service, i say again and will post this link again when will any streaming service provide this (posted a few times now but gone unanswered):

Not sure what you mean? "Deep Red" is available on Vudu, iTunes, Amazon Video and probably other places.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PCFan

If nobody want to pay full price for a disc anymore, then most likely nobody will pay full price for a streamed movie that has lower quality than the blu-ray and you don't actually "own". I'm more likely to pay full price for a blu-ray than a digital movie. I don't think I will be buying digital movies anymore but back when I did I could not justify spending more than $7.99 on a digital movie and even then I kind of had to think it through at that price. Sometimes I'm willing to spend up to $14.99 on a blu-ray, depending on the movie but usually I spend less than $10 on a blu-ray. When you compare buying discs, you should not compare it to subscription streaming, you should compare it to digital purchases.

This is the point I am trying to make, Disc and Digital are the same the only difference is access. If most people don't want to spend less than $10 on a Blu-ray Disc, it won't last. So don't blame Digital on the Disc demise, only look to Disc Buyers for this. The Studios will only look for the highest profits for a particular Product. If Discs are not making the profit, it will fall back to Digital HD. I see the Disc Demise all in the hands of the Disc Buyers!

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by tele1962

I am guessing you are one of these guys who prefers no film grain and no " black bars " but anyone who cares about PQ which is i am guessing most on here do, would want to see them as intended. If done by people who care about older films aspect ratio will be as close as they can get it, where as with these providers it is what they give you without any care and attention to detail.

PS
What films do you watch?

You are of course entitled to watch what you want, but you are missing out big style with streaming.

You're right I'm not a Film Purist, I just enjoy all Movies from the latest ones to the Classic ones like ones from Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, Steve McQueen, and Tom Hanks. Film Grain and Black Bars don't even enter my mind anymore, I just enjoy the Movie. I do enjoy PQ and Sound, and I get all this from my Streaming experience.

[knight17]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Enough said about iTunes, that's where Vudu is superior, they have Variable BitRate according to Bandwidth and Access. So I have Fiber and Direct Trunking to the Vudu Server giving me a Higher BitRate and Blu-ray Quality.

Higher bit-rate is a possibility but it could never match the quality of a blu-ray. If it were to do so, each movie on a BD-50 should be around 45GB (streaming or downloading size) and each movie on a BD-25 should be around 20GB in size.

The servers need to be able to hold these file sizes regardless of it being streamed or downloaded. Now try multiplying that with all of the movies on offer and one can see that is not the case. The best possible scenario would mean it be compressed to around 15GB or less.

HD Streaming will never match what Blu ray offers.

4K UHD Streaming will never match what 4K UHD Blu ray offers.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right I'm not a Film Purist, I just enjoy all Movies from the latest ones to the Classic ones like ones from Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, Steve McQueen, and Tom Hanks. Film Grain and Black Bars don't even enter my mind anymore, I just enjoy the Movie. I do enjoy PQ and Sound, and I get all this from my Streaming experience.

If I'm going to buy a movie I want it in it's original aspect ratio if possible and I would want it in it's best image quality and without image distortion. I was disappointed when I bought a digital movie through one of the digital services and discovered that the blu-ray was 2.35:1 but the one in the digital service was 1.78:1. Also in another digital service I have a movie in my account that is squished, not cropped, to 1.33:1 but the blu-ray version is 1.78:1. That was a waste of my money because I don't want to watch a distorted image, even if the image quality is acceptable. I also have another movie in my digital account that is stretched from 1.37:1 to 1.78:1. Would you enjoy a film you bought if the image was distorted?

[stonesfan129]

I love that many Blu-ray discs have a UV code that I can punch into Vudu so I can stream the movie when I'm not at home.

But they have to come out with more stuff that allows you to transfer your existing discs into digital streams. I am not going to pay $15-20 again for content I already bought. And the price needs to be reflective of the quality (or lack thereof) you're getting with a stream.

So for me, physical.

Originally Posted by PCFan

If I'm going to buy a movie I want it in it's original aspect ratio if possible and I would want it in it's best image quality and without image distortion. I was disappointed when I bought a digital movie through one of the digital services and discovered that the blu-ray was 2.35:1 but the one in the digital service was 1.78:1. Also in another digital service I have a movie in my account that is squished, not cropped, to 1.33:1 but the blu-ray version is 1.78:1. That was a waste of my money because I don't want to watch a distorted image, even if the image quality is acceptable. I also have another movie in my digital account that is stretched from 1.37:1 to 1.78:1. Would you enjoy a film you bought if the image was distorted?

The Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises were like this in iTunes. Blu-ray contains the IMAX scenes that use the whole screen. iTunes versions are cropped for those scenes. And they cost the same price new. So what is the point of buying them digitally? Not to mention, what happens if the provider decides not to license the content out to whatever provider somebody likes to use?

I have a Hulu account, but I only have it because I want Comedy Central and a few other TV shows that I can't get other places (not without a cable TV subscription). I can't remember the last time I watched a whole movie via Hulu because most of the movies there seem to be less popular stuff people likely wouldn't buy.

That's like today, I watched my Blu-ray of Jack Reacher (2012) on my new-to-me LG BP-550 (I got it so I could play my home movies via USB flash drive, and to play FLAC files from my external HDD). It looks and sounds great. How many streaming services have this movie that is 4 years old?

Content is king.

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right I'm not a Film Purist, I just enjoy all Movies from the latest ones to the Classic ones like ones from Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, Steve McQueen, and Tom Hanks. Film Grain and Black Bars don't even enter my mind anymore, I just enjoy the Movie. I do enjoy PQ and Sound, and I get all this from my Streaming experience.

There we have it another of the general public who does not care or understand how a movie should look and is quite happy to see the back of physical media. I only wish these people could be shown the difference.

This i hope does not come over the wrong way but in that case why do you post on Blu Ray.Com, surely we are here for the best viewing experience we can achieve.

[wolfpackTri]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I love that many Blu-ray discs have a UV code that I can punch into Vudu so I can stream the movie when I'm not at home.

But they have to come out with more stuff that allows you to transfer your existing discs into digital streams. I am not going to pay $15-20 again for content I already bought. And the price needs to be reflective of the quality (or lack thereof) you're getting with a stream.

So for me, physical.

Vudu has the ability to do this. It's called Disc to Digital. http://www.vudu.com/disc_to_digital.html

Download the Vudu to Go app and you can do it on your PC if you have a bluray drive.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by tele1962

There we have it another of the general public who does not care or understand how a movie should look and is quite happy to see the back of physical media. I only wish these people could be shown the difference.

This i hope does not come over the wrong way but in that case why do you post on Blu Ray.Com, surely we are here for the best viewing experience we can achieve.

It depends on the display one has too. Even on my little 24" 1080P LED Samsung monitor, the difference between a Blu-ray and anything less is night and day. I can't notice huge differences in the sound other than that the HD tracks are clearer and have more "oomph." But when the video is compressed, you can easily see the loss of film grain and fine details in the picture. With extreme examples, it's also very easy to see artifacts such as banding in dark areas.