Los Vega's HT - Blu-ray Forum

vega2K · 10-07-2009, 03:31 PM

I never started an upgrade thread for myself, so I thought I would start one now. But my goal is not just to show-off my set-up, but also, hopefully, pass along knowledge and possibly inspire others with ideas.

Here's a recent pic of my set-up, please go to my gallery for more pictures since I will focus more on upgrades here.

First a little background:
My current set-up includes dual displays (60" plasma and 92" electric screen) in a multipurpose room. My goal has always been to set-up a 2.35:1 Constant Image Height (CIH) set-up, but like most of you, I do not have a dedicated HT room, which means I cannot build my own screen, which means my options are limited. My only solution was to find a retractable/electric 2.35:1 screen and the means to project it from my "zoom-less" projector..... oh and by the way, I am not rich - so a $2K+ screen and $2K+ anamorphic lens are out of the question.

2.35:1 Screen solution:
I'm not sure what gave me the idea and I am sure I am not the first to do this, but all of a sudden I thought, "how about a bigger 16:9 screen that I can drop down to a 2.35:1 aspect ratio? I researched this and calculated that I would need at least a 122" diagonal 16:9 acreen, so that I can drop down to the same height as the existing 92" screen, but a width of about 106", hence a 2.35:1 AR. Sure enough, I found an Elite 125" 16:9 electric screen for under $300! My existing screen is also an Elite electric screen. My plan was to hang the second screen below and in front of, but staggered from my first screen. This way the two screens could be dropped down with my Harmony One independently and with no interference. Here's a diagram to better explain my idea.

The beauty of this idea is that I would still have a 60" Plasma and with my existing projector/92" screen, I would still be able to watch 16:9 content from DirecTV and some blu-rays. But now, with a click of a button on my Harmony one, I will also be able to drop down the new screen and watch cinescope/2.35 content - which is the AR of most blu-rays! No more black bars! So here's my new screen set-up with 3 modes:

Mode 1: General/daytime use - Plasma

Mode 2: DirecTV and some Blu-rays - PJ w/ 16:9 Screen

Mode 3: Almost all other Blu-rays - PJ w/ 2.35:1 Screen

Screens in Action:

I am not finished with the vertical adjustment settings on the screens yet and I need to re-program my Harmony One but I'm close. Also note the bigger screen actually provides a 2.40:1 Aspect Ratio which is even better.

Final touches yet to come:
- Black Valance to cover the screen enclosures and chains.
- Masking material placed on the underside of the lower screen to eliminate reflection.
- Cable management coming from screens power and remote cables (not that visible but its there).

So, if you have the room and currently have about a 100" or smaller 16:9 screen, my approach may be an alternative solution. If you check online for 2.35:1 electric screens with some sort of masking, you will see prices ranging from about $2000 to about $3000! The cheapest I have found (for about $1500) is an Elite Osprey Dual Projection Screen which is a new solution and consists simply of a dual screen which drops down from the same enclosure (basically my set-up except I have two enclosures).

2.35:1 Projection solution (WIP):
At this point, if I had the zoom capability of newer projectors, I would be done. Sure, I would loose out on some resolution and black bar pixels would be wasted and possibly have a dimmer image, but I would be done.

So at this point I have two obstacles: (1) there is no way in hell I will spend upwards of $2000 on an Anamorphic lens and even B stock is not do-able (at least not right now) AND (2) I love my projector and I will not replace it. So the search continued, until I read about Do-It-Yourself Anamorphic lenses........

Most projectors have a "vertical stretch" which basically takes a 2.35 image with the top/bottom black bars and stretches it up and down, so that the image ends-up filling the full 16:9 screen (the image becomes skinny). What an anamorphic lens does is stretches the image horizontally (left/right) so that the image looks normal again, but now the image extends beyond the 16:9 screen on the left and on the right, hence the need for a 2.35:1 screen.

Through my research, I have come to learn that one can build an anamorphic lens by the use of what are called "trophy" prisms. These are simply glass wedge shaped recognition awards/trophies that are sold and engraved to give to deserving employees and cost from about $30 to $150 each (here are a couple of links for your information):
http://www.massillonplaque.com/produ...4&productid=85
http://www.precisioncrystal.com/cata...tal-wedge.html

Using two of these (without the engraving of course) and placing them in front of the projector in a certain angle, results in the said horizontal stretch of the image. Here's an image to help explain the concept.

There are many sources with better details and information about DIY anamorphic lenses available, so I will not reinvent the wheel, but here are a few links which may help (I thank Brain Sturgeon, Big Daddy and the AVS Forum for the resources):
http://www.zuggsoft.com/theater/prism.htm
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=174
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=104914

This is the approach I am taking. I do not expect it to be the best but as an entry-level, get your feet wet, sub $200 approach, I am willing to give it a try. In the next few weeks I plan on making head-way on this, afterall I've already got the freaking screen, so talk about lighting a fire under my @$$. I will post my findings and progress. Stay tuned.

Comments Questions Welcomed.

Fors* · 10-07-2009, 04:49 PM

Great post and also a great

vega! I understand completely what you are trying to do, and for the first time I understand completely what is happening with the screen sizes and using the "stretch" capabilities with a 16:9 screen like I do myself. Unfortunately have already maxed out what width I have for a screen, so I wouldn't be able to do this in my present set-up. But hopefully other members might feel compelled to give this a try.

vega2K · 10-07-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg21

Great post and also a great

vega! I understand completely what you are trying to do, and for the first time I understand completely what is happening with the screen sizes and using the "stretch" capabilities with a 16:9 screen like I do myself. Unfortunately have already maxed out what width I have for a screen, so I wouldn't be able to do this in my present set-up. But hopefully other members might feel compelled to give this a try.

Thanks.

I know about your situation because once I checked out your pictures and saw the incredible precision job you did on the screen placement, I knew this wouldn't work for you. My hope is that since so many are going the pj route and especially those who already have Zoom on their pjs, this would offer a hugely cost effective solution to a CIH 2.35 set-up.

igotcabada · 10-07-2009, 05:17 PM

Thanks for the info vega...

After trying to search for an affordable 2.35 motorized screen for weeks, I think i'm going to go the 1.78 route and see if i can just partrially extend it for 2.35 movies.

One option that the projector people suggested to me, was that DALITE can customize their Cosmopolitan Electrol 1.78 screens by cutting a portion of the bottom off and then finishing it off to create a 2.35 screen. They quoted me around $800 for a 120" one of these.

since i can get a motorized elite screen and the AE3000 for under $2,300, if i'm unhappy with the 1.78 screen and how its working out for me, i will only be out a couple hundred bucks if I want to get thet 2.35 screen..

igotcabada · 10-07-2009, 05:21 PM

questions about the harmony+elite screen..

Can you program the screen to come down to multiple lengths automatically? Or am i going to have to sit there and hit down/up until its perfect for the 2.35 height?

vega2K · 10-07-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igotcabada

questions about the harmony+elite screen..

Can you program the screen to come down to multiple lengths automatically? Or am i going to have to sit there and hit down/up until its perfect for the 2.35 height?

Unfortunately I have not found a way to have the Harmony start and then stop to a given height. However, as you probably know, the Elite screen can be set to drop down to whatever length you need, so that you just press down and it stops where you set it to stop by itself. However, it cannot be set to drop down to multiple lengths.

rded · 10-07-2009, 05:37 PM

Vega,

Its about time dude! Anyway, great job on the HT: I know this thread will be awesome! With that said, when can I come over to gawk and oggle with awe @ your big HT?

Franin · 01-07-2010, 02:29 AM

Dual Electric screens.

Looks great!! Well done!!

vega2K · 01-07-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franin

Dual Electric screens.

Looks great!! Well done!!

Thank you Franin. I checked out your Gallery and gave you a 10! I really love your CIH set-up, you really optimized your space nicely! I'm curious about what impact your accoustic panels had, did you get a chance to test the with and without? I'm sure there is a difference, but how big of a difference did they make? In a room that size, I would expect the difference was huge.

vega2K · 01-09-2010, 10:16 PM

Hello all.

I'm just popping in for a minute. I came across a deal on Eclipse Curtains at Sears going for 50% off here. Sorry for the short notice but the deal ends today 1/9/10! I took advantage and purchased 6 panels of the black suede Reg price $34.99, today $17.49 each, plus the $5 off on purchase of $50+. I did a store pick-up and saved on shipping. Good luck!

Here's a bit more details:

Sears has Eclipse Black-Out Curtains for 50% off from as low as $8.49 each. Save $5 off $50 or more with code SEARS5OFF50. Select in-store pick up to save on shipping, otherwise it starts at $6.95 to ship to home.

Credit goes to my next favorite site Slickdeals.net.

vega2K · 01-16-2010, 11:26 PM

Hello all,

Thought I'd drop by and introduce you to the newest member in my HT family:

MX-125 MkII Subwoofer
Drivers: (2) 12" long-throw MK125
Push pull configuration virtually eliminates even harmonic distortion
Built-in 150 watt RMS amplifier
Active Headroom Maximizer IV design to prevent clipping
Adjustable 50Hz-125Hz low-pass filter with bypass
Frequency Response: 20 - 125 Hz ± 3dB
Weight: 64 lbs
Dimensions: 23" H x 15.25" W x 19 5/8" D

I was really impressed with Subs with multiple drivers in the same unit, such as the Martin Logan Descent, which utilize the configuration to cancel out cabinet noise and vibration. I came across the now bankrupt (but soon returning) Miller & Keisler line of subs. According to a review I found: M&K's MX-125 subwoofer houses two long-throw 12" woofers in a push-pull configuration. These are the same drivers used in the THX-Ultra certified MX-350 MkII subwoofer. This design has one driver facing into the room while the second driver faces up into the bottom of the cabinet. Both drivers are wired electrically out of phase, but acoustically in phase with one another, doubling the amount of acoustical power into the room.

I was lucky enough to find this beauty in Craigslist and finalized the deal today at an unbelievable price of $125!!

I already hooked it up and am totally blown away. I did not know I was missing bass until I tried this one out. Totally awesome!

Here's a few more pics:

The M&K next to my 12" AA for comparison (notice that the AA is on a riser):

Here's a better view of the second 12" Driver:

This sub is in great condition.

A few interesting facts about M&K:
For a while M&K was the highly recognized speaker manufacturer in the US. Their speakers were used in the making of several of the Star Wars movies. The founders have been credited as the first subwoofer makers. In 2007 they went bankrupt, but recently they are being resurrected by a UK company and are now starting to make speakers again. Check abt.com to see some of the new lines, which include high end subs still utilizing the dual configuration shown above.

From my research, the quality of the older M&K speakers are fantastic and can be had at very reasonable prices if you can find them (people have never heard of them or are not interested due to the bankruptcy). But I have also found that parts are very easy to come by on ebay, in fact I am thinking of upgrading the drivers with an upgraded model which are supposed to increase the output by 6db.

I used the funds I had set aside to upgrade the 12" driver on the AA and was able to get a whole Sub unit with two 12" drivers. This purchase came totally unexpected and may be the best purchase of the year!

crazyBLUE · 01-16-2010, 11:33 PM

That thing is A monster vega

I like monsters

That box is as big or bigger than my 15" .

How does it sound tone wise , & without A riser . Nice score vega !

talstarone · 01-19-2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vega2K

Hello all,

Thought I'd drop by and introduce you to the newest member in my HT family:

MX-125 MkII Subwoofer
Drivers: (2) 12" long-throw MK125
Push pull configuration virtually eliminates even harmonic distortion
Built-in 150 watt RMS amplifier
Active Headroom Maximizer IV design to prevent clipping
Adjustable 50Hz-125Hz low-pass filter with bypass
Frequency Response: 20 - 125 Hz ± 3dB
Weight: 64 lbs
Dimensions: 23" H x 15.25" W x 19 5/8" D

I was really impressed with Subs with multiple drivers in the same unit, such as the Martin Logan Descent, which utilize the configuration to cancel out cabinet noise and vibration. I came across the now bankrupt (but soon returning) Miller & Keisler line of subs. According to a review I found: M&K's MX-125 subwoofer houses two long-throw 12" woofers in a push-pull configuration. These are the same drivers used in the THX-Ultra certified MX-350 MkII subwoofer. This design has one driver facing into the room while the second driver faces up into the bottom of the cabinet. Both drivers are wired electrically out of phase, but acoustically in phase with one another, doubling the amount of acoustical power into the room.

I was lucky enough to find this beauty in Craigslist and finalized the deal today at an unbelievable price of $125!!

I already hooked it up and am totally blown away. I did not know I was missing bass until I tried this one out. Totally awesome!

Here's a few more pics:

The M&K next to my 12" AA for comparison (notice that the AA is on a riser):

Here's a better view of the second 12" Driver:

This sub is in great condition.

A few interesting facts about M&K:
For a while M&K was the highly recognized speaker manufacturer in the US. Their speakers were used in the making of several of the Star Wars movies. The founders have been credited as the first subwoofer makers. In 2007 they went bankrupt, but recently they are being resurrected by a UK company and are now starting to make speakers again. Check abt.com to see some of the new lines, which include high end subs still utilizing the dual configuration shown above.

From my research, the quality of the older M&K speakers are fantastic and can be had at very reasonable prices if you can find them (people have never heard of them or are not interested due to the bankruptcy). But I have also found that parts are very easy to come by on ebay, in fact I am thinking of upgrading the drivers with an upgraded model which are supposed to increase the output by 6db.

I used the funds I had set aside to upgrade the 12" driver on the AA and was able to get a whole Sub unit with two 12" drivers. This purchase came totally unexpected and may be the best purchase of the year!

Vega,my Friend.That New Sub is a Beauty.
I remember seeing ads for their subs in the early and mid 1990's Audio Magazines.
They were Truly Highly Regarded for the Performance and construction.

That may go down as the best find of the Year.
To locate that sub for that price is Amazing.

The whole sub is around the same price the Basic Entry Level Subs cost now.But performs like Subs costing 7 or 8 times the incredible price you paid.

Congratulations and it looks as if you have a Great Member of your Sub Family.

So will you end up upgrading the Driver in the AA now.Or will the AA be retired for use in another room or an entirely new home?

10-07-2009, 03:31 PM	#1
vega2K Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Home Theater Gallery:68 Blu-ray collection:345 Trading Score:228	Los Vega's HT I never started an upgrade thread for myself, so I thought I would start one now. But my goal is not just to show-off my set-up, but also, hopefully, pass along knowledge and possibly inspire others with ideas. Here's a recent pic of my set-up, please go to my gallery for more pictures since I will focus more on upgrades here. First a little background: My current set-up includes dual displays (60" plasma and 92" electric screen) in a multipurpose room. My goal has always been to set-up a 2.35:1 Constant Image Height (CIH) set-up, but like most of you, I do not have a dedicated HT room, which means I cannot build my own screen, which means my options are limited. My only solution was to find a retractable/electric 2.35:1 screen and the means to project it from my "zoom-less" projector..... oh and by the way, I am not rich - so a $2K+ screen and $2K+ anamorphic lens are out of the question. 2.35:1 Screen solution: I'm not sure what gave me the idea and I am sure I am not the first to do this, but all of a sudden I thought, "how about a bigger 16:9 screen that I can drop down to a 2.35:1 aspect ratio? I researched this and calculated that I would need at least a 122" diagonal 16:9 acreen, so that I can drop down to the same height as the existing 92" screen, but a width of about 106", hence a 2.35:1 AR. Sure enough, I found an Elite 125" 16:9 electric screen for under $300! My existing screen is also an Elite electric screen. My plan was to hang the second screen below and in front of, but staggered from my first screen. This way the two screens could be dropped down with my Harmony One independently and with no interference. Here's a diagram to better explain my idea. The beauty of this idea is that I would still have a 60" Plasma and with my existing projector/92" screen, I would still be able to watch 16:9 content from DirecTV and some blu-rays. But now, with a click of a button on my Harmony one, I will also be able to drop down the new screen and watch cinescope/2.35 content - which is the AR of most blu-rays! No more black bars! So here's my new screen set-up with 3 modes: Mode 1: General/daytime use - Plasma Mode 2: DirecTV and some Blu-rays - PJ w/ 16:9 Screen Mode 3: Almost all other Blu-rays - PJ w/ 2.35:1 Screen Screens in Action: I am not finished with the vertical adjustment settings on the screens yet and I need to re-program my Harmony One but I'm close. Also note the bigger screen actually provides a 2.40:1 Aspect Ratio which is even better. Final touches yet to come: - Black Valance to cover the screen enclosures and chains. - Masking material placed on the underside of the lower screen to eliminate reflection. - Cable management coming from screens power and remote cables (not that visible but its there). So, if you have the room and currently have about a 100" or smaller 16:9 screen, my approach may be an alternative solution. If you check online for 2.35:1 electric screens with some sort of masking, you will see prices ranging from about $2000 to about $3000! The cheapest I have found (for about $1500) is an Elite Osprey Dual Projection Screen which is a new solution and consists simply of a dual screen which drops down from the same enclosure (basically my set-up except I have two enclosures). 2.35:1 Projection solution (WIP): At this point, if I had the zoom capability of newer projectors, I would be done. Sure, I would loose out on some resolution and black bar pixels would be wasted and possibly have a dimmer image, but I would be done. So at this point I have two obstacles: (1) there is no way in hell I will spend upwards of $2000 on an Anamorphic lens and even B stock is not do-able (at least not right now) AND (2) I love my projector and I will not replace it. So the search continued, until I read about Do-It-Yourself Anamorphic lenses........ Most projectors have a "vertical stretch" which basically takes a 2.35 image with the top/bottom black bars and stretches it up and down, so that the image ends-up filling the full 16:9 screen (the image becomes skinny). What an anamorphic lens does is stretches the image horizontally (left/right) so that the image looks normal again, but now the image extends beyond the 16:9 screen on the left and on the right, hence the need for a 2.35:1 screen. Through my research, I have come to learn that one can build an anamorphic lens by the use of what are called "trophy" prisms. These are simply glass wedge shaped recognition awards/trophies that are sold and engraved to give to deserving employees and cost from about $30 to $150 each (here are a couple of links for your information): http://www.massillonplaque.com/produ...4&productid=85 http://www.precisioncrystal.com/cata...tal-wedge.html Using two of these (without the engraving of course) and placing them in front of the projector in a certain angle, results in the said horizontal stretch of the image. Here's an image to help explain the concept. There are many sources with better details and information about DIY anamorphic lenses available, so I will not reinvent the wheel, but here are a few links which may help (I thank Brain Sturgeon, Big Daddy and the AVS Forum for the resources): http://www.zuggsoft.com/theater/prism.htm http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=174 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=104914 This is the approach I am taking. I do not expect it to be the best but as an entry-level, get your feet wet, sub $200 approach, I am willing to give it a try. In the next few weeks I plan on making head-way on this, afterall I've already got the freaking screen, so talk about lighting a fire under my @$$. I will post my findings and progress. Stay tuned. Comments Questions Welcomed. Last edited by vega2K; 10-07-2009 at 08:00 PM.

01-16-2010, 11:26 PM	#11
vega2K Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Home Theater Gallery:68 Blu-ray collection:345 Trading Score:228	Hello all, Thought I'd drop by and introduce you to the newest member in my HT family: MX-125 MkII Subwoofer Drivers: (2) 12" long-throw MK125 Push pull configuration virtually eliminates even harmonic distortion Built-in 150 watt RMS amplifier Active Headroom Maximizer IV design to prevent clipping Adjustable 50Hz-125Hz low-pass filter with bypass Frequency Response: 20 - 125 Hz ± 3dB Weight: 64 lbs Dimensions: 23" H x 15.25" W x 19 5/8" D I was really impressed with Subs with multiple drivers in the same unit, such as the Martin Logan Descent, which utilize the configuration to cancel out cabinet noise and vibration. I came across the now bankrupt (but soon returning) Miller & Keisler line of subs. According to a review I found: M&K's MX-125 subwoofer houses two long-throw 12" woofers in a push-pull configuration. These are the same drivers used in the THX-Ultra certified MX-350 MkII subwoofer. This design has one driver facing into the room while the second driver faces up into the bottom of the cabinet. Both drivers are wired electrically out of phase, but acoustically in phase with one another, doubling the amount of acoustical power into the room. I was lucky enough to find this beauty in Craigslist and finalized the deal today at an unbelievable price of $125!! I already hooked it up and am totally blown away. I did not know I was missing bass until I tried this one out. Totally awesome! Here's a few more pics: The M&K next to my 12" AA for comparison (notice that the AA is on a riser): Here's a better view of the second 12" Driver: This sub is in great condition. A few interesting facts about M&K: For a while M&K was the highly recognized speaker manufacturer in the US. Their speakers were used in the making of several of the Star Wars movies. The founders have been credited as the first subwoofer makers. In 2007 they went bankrupt, but recently they are being resurrected by a UK company and are now starting to make speakers again. Check abt.com to see some of the new lines, which include high end subs still utilizing the dual configuration shown above. From my research, the quality of the older M&K speakers are fantastic and can be had at very reasonable prices if you can find them (people have never heard of them or are not interested due to the bankruptcy). But I have also found that parts are very easy to come by on ebay, in fact I am thinking of upgrading the drivers with an upgraded model which are supposed to increase the output by 6db. I used the funds I had set aside to upgrade the 12" driver on the AA and was able to get a whole Sub unit with two 12" drivers. This purchase came totally unexpected and may be the best purchase of the year! Last edited by vega2K; 01-16-2010 at 11:31 PM.

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10-07-2009, 04:49 PM	#2
Fors* Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Pottstown, PA Home Theater Gallery:160 4K collection:12 Blu-ray collection:142 Trading Score:11	Great post and also a great vega! I understand completely what you are trying to do, and for the first time I understand completely what is happening with the screen sizes and using the "stretch" capabilities with a 16:9 screen like I do myself. Unfortunately have already maxed out what width I have for a screen, so I wouldn't be able to do this in my present set-up. But hopefully other members might feel compelled to give this a try.

10-07-2009, 05:17 PM	#4
igotcabada Special Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Location:NC Home Theater Gallery:22 Blu-ray collection:37	Thanks for the info vega... After trying to search for an affordable 2.35 motorized screen for weeks, I think i'm going to go the 1.78 route and see if i can just partrially extend it for 2.35 movies. One option that the projector people suggested to me, was that DALITE can customize their Cosmopolitan Electrol 1.78 screens by cutting a portion of the bottom off and then finishing it off to create a 2.35 screen. They quoted me around $800 for a 120" one of these. since i can get a motorized elite screen and the AE3000 for under $2,300, if i'm unhappy with the 1.78 screen and how its working out for me, i will only be out a couple hundred bucks if I want to get thet 2.35 screen..

10-07-2009, 05:21 PM	#5
igotcabada Special Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Location:NC Home Theater Gallery:22 Blu-ray collection:37	questions about the harmony+elite screen.. Can you program the screen to come down to multiple lengths automatically? Or am i going to have to sit there and hit down/up until its perfect for the 2.35 height?

10-07-2009, 05:37 PM	#7
rded Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Aug 2008 Location:555 Naim Street Blu-ray collection:254 Trading Score:1	Vega, Its about time dude! Anyway, great job on the HT: I know this thread will be awesome! With that said, when can I come over to gawk and oggle with awe @ your big HT?

01-07-2010, 02:29 AM	#8
Franin Active Member Member since:Dec 2009 Location:Perth Australia	Dual Electric screens. Looks great!! Well done!!

01-09-2010, 10:16 PM	#10
vega2K Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Home Theater Gallery:68 Blu-ray collection:345 Trading Score:228	Hello all. I'm just popping in for a minute. I came across a deal on Eclipse Curtains at Sears going for 50% off here. Sorry for the short notice but the deal ends today 1/9/10! I took advantage and purchased 6 panels of the black suede Reg price $34.99, today $17.49 each, plus the $5 off on purchase of $50+. I did a store pick-up and saved on shipping. Good luck! Here's a bit more details: Sears has Eclipse Black-Out Curtains for 50% off from as low as $8.49 each. Save $5 off $50 or more with code SEARS5OFF50. Select in-store pick up to save on shipping, otherwise it starts at $6.95 to ship to home. Credit goes to my next favorite site Slickdeals.net.

01-16-2010, 11:33 PM	#12
crazyBLUE Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Aug 2008 Location:Pacific Northwest Home Theater Gallery:89 Blu-ray collection:479 DVD collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 38 Trading Score:30	That thing is A monster vega I like monsters That box is as big or bigger than my 15" . How does it sound tone wise , & without A riser . Nice score vega !

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