What do you think about 3D? Do you like it? Hate it? Think it's better than 4K?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Anybody who hasn't seen a 3dtv in a home has no business even talking about it. Seeing 3d at the cinemas or a 3dtv in a store is not quite the same as seeing it at home, so if u have only seen it in a store or at the cinemas, then keep your opinion to yourself.

Well, then that's not exactly a shining promotion for the 3D tech "revolution", now is it? In order to experience it properly (and to have a legimate opinion), they either have to be lucky enough to know someone who already has it at home (which few people do), or have to own it themselves (which many people will be reluctant to do without at least being able to properly test it out first, which you just said that can't do at a store).

Except that most people want to be able to test it out before buying, so if in-store displays aren't accurate enough to determine this, how does anyone ever accurately compare anything? Even if someone is lucky enough to know someone who has a 3DTV, they will still only be able to look at that ONE set and have nothing to compare it to, based on your logic.

What a self-destructive set of rules you have there.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by etype55

Well informed. You should probably take a second to learn how 3D works, and the tech required. Because 3D capability is, ispo facto, better 2D. This was my address. You don't like it, I get it. Its cool. But you have a lot of opinion without any information, at least as evidenced by your presumption that 3D detracts from better developed 2D. No law against that of course but it is rather silly.

Pot, meet kettle.

So it's okay for you to spew your OPINIONS on 3D, but it's not okay for others to do the same? What's worse, is you have the nerve to claim your opinions are facts? Everything you've mentioned is simply your opinion. It may be shared by others, but it is still an opinion.

I get a kick out of posters like this who just can't seem to accept the FACT that others do not feel the same as they do about a new (and IMO, fad) technology. I can just picture them seething at their computers, faces red and blood pressure going through the ceiling, all because someone else doesn't share their opinions.

You want to share your opinions, fine, but that doesn't give you the right to simply dismiss the opinions so many other share.

[etype55]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Pot, meet kettle.

So it's okay for you to spew your OPINIONS on 3D, but it's not okay for others to do the same? What's worse, is you have the nerve to claim your opinions are facts? Everything you've mentioned is simply your opinion. It may be shared by others, but it is still an opinion.

I get a kick out of posters like this who just can't seem to accept the FACT that others do not feel the same as they do about a new (and IMO, fad) technology. I can just picture them seething at their computers, faces red and blood pressure going through the ceiling, all because someone else doesn't share their opinions.

You want to share your opinions, fine, but that doesn't give you the right to simply dismiss the opinions so many other share.

You said,

but I'd rather the display manufacturers spend their research time and money on improving the 2D picture as opposed to junking-up sets with 3D capability (hopefully NOT to the detriment of the 2D picture)

You want better 2D, thats perfectly reasonable and you're entitled to it. However, the clear inference here is that 3D distracts manufacturers from improving their 2D. And that is simply not true.

Here's a link http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/04/3d...t-so-bad-then/ A quick google brought this up. More information is available if you want. The 3D market is going to improve your preferred viewing experience.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Except that most people want to be able to test it out before buying, so if in-store displays aren't accurate enough to determine this, how does anyone ever accurately compare anything?

I know someone who has a fairly nice 3D Plasma (I'm not up to speed on all of the model #'s sorry) and he paid a LOT for it pretty much early in the time of the modern 3D resurgence, and he has a lot of other very nice things, and I'll just say that he's not the type to buy 'junk'.... and when it comes to tech stuff, he's pretty much always the first one to buy the new iPhone, or iPad (of which he has 3 ) etc... and even he, whom I consider an early adopter to most things, doesn't have his T.V. professionally calibrated (he did use a disc though)

So my point in all of this.... if a properly calibrated set is such a necessity for Joe-Six-Pack's enjoyment of 3D, and one can't experience this at a store demo, then how many people do you think have experienced 3D under these microscopic conditions?

Think about how many people you know that have an HDTV.... I'm guessing it's a lot now.... I know for me personally, a lot of my friends/family have made the switch to HDTVs.... amongst them, half might have a BD player, and I don't know a single one who had their T.V. professionally calibrated..... NOT ONE... (one may exist, but not to my knowledge)

I'm certainly not suggesting that professional calibration isn't important, because if I get a new T.V. it's the first thing I'm doing after doing whatever suggested break-in-period there is..... I'm suggesting that professional calibration is "snake-oil" in the eyes of most consumers.

If my mother's owner's manual didn't tell her she needed to put premium gas in her car, she'd certainly just get regular gas.... People don't research this stuff on their own, that's just the way it is.


Having said ALL of that.... I think every set should be properly calibrated, but the lack of a properly calibrated set certainly shouldn't affect the average consumer's decision on whether or not to buy 3D T.V.s, glasses, movies, etc... I think the other reasons I pointed out earlier are the true hurdles....

I can see that if you're a big fan of 3D content, you would be a little puzzled as to figure out why everyone else doesn't see the great value in it that you do, but saying 3D is the same as 2D but "better" is really an inaccurate way to look at it.... it's like trying to convince me that I should watch my concert Blu-rays in 5.1 rather than stereo.... I prefer stereo, and I understand why some may prefer 5.1, but I will never understand how someone could tell me that I am WRONG for not preferring 5.1, and that's what a lot of people on both sides of this debate are doing... telling the other side they're wrong for enjoying/not enjoying 3D.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Well, then that's not exactly a shining promotion for the 3D tech "revolution", now is it? In order to experience it properly (and to have a legimate opinion), they either have to be lucky enough to know someone who already has it at home (which few people do), or have to own it themselves (which many people will be reluctant to do without at least being able to properly test it out first, which you just said that can't do at a store).

Except that most people want to be able to test it out before buying, so if in-store displays aren't accurate enough to determine this, how does anyone ever accurately compare anything? Even if someone is lucky enough to know someone who has a 3DTV, they will still only be able to look at that ONE set and have nothing to compare it to, based on your logic.

What a self-destructive set of rules you have there.

I should have been a bit clearer in my last post. I should have added, If people are going to places like best buy to view 3dtv's, and is where they are getting their opinion of it from, then no wonder they are not liking it. I actually went and tried different model 3dtv's out in a proper dedicated showroom at a store which sells high end equipment before I bought 1, which is what everybody should make an effort to do if they truly want to see what 3d at home can do, and before opening their mouth and spreading propaganda about it.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I actually went and tried different model 3dtv's out in a proper dedicated showroom at a store which sells high end equipment before I bought 1, which is what everybody should make an effort to do if they truly want to see what 3d at home can do, and before opening their mouth and spreading propaganda about it.

Do you think you're in the majority on that?

Again... I'm not saying someone should or shouldn't enjoy 3D, and I'm also not saying people should make uninformed opinions about it.

My point is, if that is what is really "needed" then you really can't deny that it's an obstacle to adoption because the average consumer isn't going to see 3D under the same conditions you did.....

Adoption will be fueled the same way as it was for HDTV and Blu-ray.... when WalMart, and Target have displays up.....

Vizio is the #1 T.V. manufacturer, and you can argue with people until you're blue in the face that whatever other t.v. is better, and I know, because I have friends who have them, and they say "they all look about the same"

Consumer behavior is a scary scary thing sometimes.

[etype55]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Do you think you're in the majority on that?

Again... I'm not saying someone should or shouldn't enjoy 3D, and I'm also not saying people should make uninformed opinions about it.

My point is, if that is what is really "needed" then you really can't deny that it's an obstacle to adoption because the average consumer isn't going to see 3D under the same conditions you did.....

Adoption will be fueled the same way as it was for HDTV and Blu-ray.... when WalMart, and Target have displays up.....

Vizio is the #1 T.V. manufacturer, and you can argue with people until you're blue in the face that whatever other t.v. is better, and I know, because I have friends who have them, and they say "they all look about the same"

Consumer behavior is a scary scary thing sometimes.

I'm betting friends visiting friends that own 3DTV is the ember beneath the new market. It will be slow, but steady. We've hosted a number of people that were curious. Most loved it, one was ambivalent and one other gets motion sickness. Overall the reaction is extremely positive. Word of mouth takes the longest to mature but its becomes a steamroller if the product is good enough.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I should have been a bit clearer in my last post. I should have added, If people are going to places like best buy to view 3dtv's, and is where they are getting their opinion of it from, then they are idiots, and no wonder aren't liking it. I actually went and tried different model 3dtv's out in a proper dedicated showroom at a store which sells high end equipment before I bought 1, which is what everybody should make an effort to do if they truly want to see what 3d at home can do, and before opening their mouth and spreading propaganda about it.

You made some good arguments for those that may not have researched 3D as thoroughly as they should, but all of that will be completely ignored because of your last statement. Opinions are not propaganda, and to paint them as such is insulting and demeaning.

Again, why is it SO hard for people to accept the fact that not everyone shares their love and OPINION of 3D? That's all it really is is an opinion. It's something a person likes/dislikes. I prefer a simple turkey and cheese sandwich. Don't sit there and try to tell me my opinion/like is wrong because you think the toasted herb-roasted turkey and 4-cheese sub with all of the fixin's from Quiznos is simply an improvement over my simple sandwich, and therefore I'm a Luddite if I can't appreciate that obvious improvement.

[etype55]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

You made some good arguments for those that may not have researched 3D as thoroughly as they should, but all of that will be completely ignored because of your last statement. Opinions are not propaganda, and to paint them as such is insulting and demeaning.

Again, why is it SO hard for people to accept the fact that not everyone shares their love and OPINION of 3D? That's all it really is is an opinion. It's something a person likes/dislikes. I prefer a simple turkey and cheese sandwich. Don't sit there and try to tell me my opinion/like is wrong because you think the toasted herb-roasted turkey and 4-cheese sub with all of the fixin's from Quiznos is simply an improvement over my simple sandwich, and therefore I'm a Luddite if I can't appreciate that obvious improvement.

No one has yet to explain the perplexing behavior of stalking product forums one disapproves of. You gotta admit its rather odd. And did you have a chance to check out the link I found for you?



@betaman : next time you waste the time to dissect a post you should at least answer main points.

Here I'll make it simple for you.

Can the 3DTV opponents critique in context? In fact, why are they here in the first place. Read above

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Do you think you're in the majority on that?

Again... I'm not saying someone should or shouldn't enjoy 3D, and I'm also not saying people should make uninformed opinions about it.

My point is, if that is what is really "needed" then you really can't deny that it's an obstacle to adoption because the average consumer isn't going to see 3D under the same conditions you did.....

Adoption will be fueled the same way as it was for HDTV and Blu-ray.... when WalMart, and Target have displays up.....

Vizio is the #1 T.V. manufacturer, and you can argue with people until you're blue in the face that whatever other t.v. is better, and I know, because I have friends who have them, and they say "they all look about the same"

Consumer behavior is a scary scary thing sometimes.

I expected someone like u above all people to think a bit more before saying whats written in your paragraph I have highlighted, because exactly the same thing applies when people want to really test what a 2d tv can do, which is what a lot of members on blu-ray.com are like. We are a community of people who do care about the quality of our equipment, that's what most of us are doing here and why we enjoy things such as blu-ray, better blacks, hd audio, sacd etc.

People who don't care, usually have trouble wanting to part with their money in the 1st place, which is why they generally own $200 HTIB systems. 3dtv's are not marketed at those types of people at this point in time, ATM 3d isn't for people who care about every cent they spend, because people like that will only invest in the tech when it costs less than $500.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I expected someone like u above all people to think a bit more before saying whats written in your paragraph I have highlighted, because exactly the same thing applies when people want to really test what a 2d tv can do, which is what a lot of members on blu-ray.com are like. We are a community of people who do care about the quality of our equipment, that's what most of us are doing here and why we enjoy things such as blu-ray, better blacks, hd audio, sacd etc..

I'm not disagreeing that we are a community of folks on the leading edge, especially compared to the average consumer.... I'm just pointing out that it was mentioned that if you don't see 3D in this manner, then you'll have a negative opinion of it, and you, me, others here, are in the minority when it comes to seeking out "Better" than cookie-cutter electronics etc...

I think 3D has to sell people AT RETAIL, and if it doesn't, then that's obviously a huge obstacle.....

I think we're agreeing, but it doesn't seem like it eh

Originally Posted by etype55

@betaman : next time you waste the time to dissect a post you should at least answer main points.

Here I'll make it simple for you.

Can the 3DTV opponents critique in context? In fact, why are they here in the first place. Read above

What "context" would that be?

First, I'm not an "opponent" I just think it's silly to be close-minded to the fact that there are barriers to entry when it comes to adoption, and also that 3D can in fact be a matter of preference.... I can't use an example that is exactly like 3D vs. 2D because it's a rather unique thing, but my analogy of 5.1 vs. 2.0 for concerts is pretty close..... I just don't see how you can fault a person for preferring one over the other.

[etype55]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I'm not disagreeing that we are a community of folks on the leading edge, especially compared to the average consumer.... I'm just pointing out that it was mentioned that if you don't see 3D in this manner, then you'll have a negative opinion of it, and you, me, others here, are in the minority when it comes to seeking out "Better" than cookie-cutter electronics etc...

I think 3D has to sell people AT RETAIL, and if it doesn't, then that's obviously a huge obstacle.....

I think we're agreeing, but it doesn't seem like it eh



What "context" would that be?

I never even spoke about market barriers. You're debating thin air with that line.


Really .. you just asked what context would be? You can do better than that.

And I never faulted anyone for preferring 2D ..what are you reading dude?

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

You made some good arguments for those that may not have researched 3D as thoroughly as they should, but all of that will be completely ignored because of your last statement. Opinions are not propaganda, and to paint them as such is insulting and demeaning.

Again, why is it SO hard for people to accept the fact that not everyone shares their love and OPINION of 3D? That's all it really is is an opinion. It's something a person likes/dislikes. I prefer a simple turkey and cheese sandwich. Don't sit there and try to tell me my opinion/like is wrong because you think the toasted herb-roasted turkey and 4-cheese sub with all of the fixin's from Quiznos is simply an improvement over my simple sandwich, and therefore I'm a Luddite if I can't appreciate that obvious improvement.

It's not hard, it's got nothing at all to do with someone having their own opinion if that's what it truly is, but for someone to have an opinion in the 1st place, then they have to fully understand everything they are talking about, otherwise they are spreading false rumors (much like how some people who dislike blu-ray do, and talk crap about it when they know nothing about it). To have an opinion u have to of experienced something properly for yourself, if an opinion has come from someone else or from not using the product correctly, then that really becomes propaganda if they start telling everyone who will listen.

At the end of the day there are far too many people who have created an opinion based on walking past them in a store (just like best buy) and looking at them for 5-10 minutes. One of my best mates spent almost the entire of last year bad mouthing 3d based on the cinemas and seeing 3dtv in a store for 5 minutes. He hated it, then his parents bought a Panasonic 3dtv just before Christmas, and now his whole opinion on them has changed, he thinks they are the best thing since sliced bread. Just like him, that's exactly how most peoples opinions will end up once they get 1 in their home. The honest truth is, if 3d tech was incorporated into hdtv's 3-5 years ago, most people who complain about it would like the feature, people who continue to bad mouth the tech, find excuses not to like it, but there are other motives behind them not liking it in most circumstances, they don't truly hate it, it's just their ignorance gets a hold of them.

[NewOrder79]

I'm also glad i bought a 3D tv because i always thought that "LED LCD" are better. If it wasn't for 3D i would have never bought a plasma i'm glad i did because i can't believe how amazing the picture quality is on a plasma. And i really notice that 600hz.

[NewOrder79]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

It's not hard, it's got nothing at all to do with someone having their own opinion if that's what it truly is, but for someone to have an opinion in the 1st place, then they have to fully understand everything they are talking about, otherwise they are spreading false rumors (much like how some people who dislike blu-ray do, and talk crap about it when they know nothing about it). To have an opinion u have to of experienced something properly for yourself, if an opinion has come from someone else or from not using the product correctly, then that really becomes propaganda if they start telling everyone who will listen.

At the end of the day there are far too many people who have created an opinion based on walking past them in a store (just like best buy) and looking at them for 5-10 minutes. One of my best mates spent almost the entire of last year bad mouthing 3d based on the cinemas and seeing 3dtv in a store for 5 minutes. He hated it, then his parents bought a Panasonic 3dtv just before Christmas, and now his whole opinion on them has changed, he thinks they are the best thing since sliced bread. Just like him, that's exactly how most peoples opinions will end up once they get 1 in their home. The honest truth is, if 3d tech was incorporated into hdtv's 3-5 years ago, most people would like using the feature, people who continue to bad mouth the tech, find excuses not to like it, but there are other motives behind them not liking it in most circumstances, but they don't truly hate it, it's just their ignorance gets a hold of them.

I think it has a lot to do with the whole i can't afford it so i will say it sucks to reassure myself i don't want one. When it comes to video games that's all it is, kids that can't afford to own a 360 and a PS3 bash one or the other to make themselves feel better they don't have both. Yea some people truly don't like them and can afford them. But i still say the amount of people that bash them yet can't afford them and have never experienced them properly outweigh the group of people that can afford them and have sat down in someones home and experienced it properly set up. 1000 to 1 maybe even more.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by NewOrder79

I'm also glad i bought a 3D tv because i always thought that "LED LCD" are better. If it wasn't for 3D i would have never bought a plasma i'm glad i did because i can't believe how amazing the picture quality is on a plasma. And i really notice that 600hz.

There is nothing to notice. The 600Hz "subfield drives" in todays plasmas are more marketing than much anything else. It helps the set achieve 1080 lines of measured motion resolution, but I would argue that the average person would never be able to distinguish the difference between a set with it versus a set without it.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I'm not disagreeing that we are a community of folks on the leading edge, especially compared to the average consumer.... I'm just pointing out that it was mentioned that if you don't see 3D in this manner, then you'll have a negative opinion of it, and you, me, others here, are in the minority when it comes to seeking out "Better" than cookie-cutter electronics etc...

I think 3D has to sell people AT RETAIL, and if it doesn't, then that's obviously a huge obstacle.....

I think we're agreeing, but it doesn't seem like it eh



What "context" would that be?

First, I'm not an "opponent" I just think it's silly to be close-minded to the fact that there are barriers to entry when it comes to adoption, and also that 3D can in fact be a matter of preference.... I can't use an example that is exactly like 3D vs. 2D because it's a rather unique thing, but my analogy of 5.1 vs. 2.0 for concerts is pretty close..... I just don't see how you can fault a person for preferring one over the other.

I know what u are saying, and in a way I agree, but it's not quite that black and white. Lighting, distance, dirty glasses, calibration etc all come into play with the 3d experience, and in most stores these things are the opposite to what need to be.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by etype55

I never even spoke about market barriers. You're debating thin air with that line.


Really .. you just asked what context would be? You can do better than that.

And I never faulted anyone for preferring 2D ..what are you reading dude?

Originally Posted by etype55

In my opinion and according to the sales figures, 3DTV is NOT a fad. This time, its here to stay. And I'm absolutely confident in that because I've been watching my Panny VT25 for a couple of months now.

I can't see how me reading this, then discussing market barriers etc. is really that far off-base.

And as far as other points I was making.... not every reply is directed to you.

And really.... I am curious what context you're referring to... sorry I can't 'do better than that' but if you're argument is so proficient that you don't feel the need to clarify your points, then I'll just bow out now.

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I know what u are saying, and in a way I agree, but it's not quite that black and white. Lighting, distance, dirty glasses, calibration etc all come into play with the 3d experience, and in most stores these things are the opposite to what need to be.

exactly.... so that would be something that would probably hurt the adoption of the format, given that most people (those outside of forums like this etc.) won't put in the time/effort needed to make an informed decision....

I still think this is a minor thing though, because people should be able to at least get a feel for 3D from the retail-demos.... albeit a poorly presented one.

[etype55]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I can't see how me reading this, then discussing market barriers etc. is really that far off-base.

And as far as other points I was making.... not every reply is directed to you.

And really.... I am curious what context you're referring to... sorry I can't 'do better than that' but if you're argument is so proficient that you don't feel the need to clarify your points, then I'll just bow out now.

Of all I said in that post, thats what you stuck on? And now you want me to clarify the value context in a discussion. Talk about straw man.

Just bow out then, I see no value in discussing this further with you.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I can't see how me reading this, then discussing market barriers etc. is really that far off-base.

And as far as other points I was making.... not every reply is directed to you.

And really.... I am curious what context you're referring to... sorry I can't 'do better than that' but if you're argument is so proficient that you don't feel the need to clarify your points, then I'll just bow out now.




exactly.... so that would be something that would probably hurt the adoption of the format, given that most people (those outside of forums like this etc.) won't put in the time/effort needed to make an informed decision....

I still think this is a minor thing though, because people should be able to at least get a feel for 3D from the retail-demos.... albeit a poorly presented one.

I don't think it will hurt 3d, it'll just be slower to take off, much like with blu-ray. Eventually, in a few years time most model hdtv's will just come with it as a standard feature, and people who haven't bought an hdtv yet (like my dad) will buy 1 which will have the feature. Plus some peoples hdtv's will pack it in over the next few years, and what they replace it with will most probably have 3d incorporated as a standard. Some will use it and others won't, but it will be out there in more peoples homes. Right now 3d isn't huge, which is to be expected when it has only been available for home use for just over a year, but over the next few years it will experience growth, and will become something bigger than it is currently. I understand that there are people who don't like (I didn't either this time last year ) and may never either, as it's not for everyone, and that's fair enough.