Jacob's Ladder - September 14th 2010

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Edward R. Meow

My interpretation for the movie is that it

[Show spoiler]should not be viewed as a dream, but rather a purgatory-like state. Jacob isn't dying during the film, he's already dead following the opening scene, and his soul is undergoing judgement by God.

Any information he learns, about the government experiments, is revealed to him through divine means, as a way of helping him come to terms with moving on. By accepting what happened, he is able to move forth to Heaven.

But had he rejected acceptance, he would have wound up in hell, as he saw a vision of in the hospital scene. The various horrors he witnesses through the film are the demons 'leaking' through, coming to claim his soul if he is unable to move on.

Thus Jacob is 'climbing' the ladder to heaven, by coming to terms with his life.

Not sure about the commentaries, but I've read that the screenwriter & director had two different visions for the film.

The screenwriter wanted it to be a very religious & spiritual film based in Jewish, Christian, & Buddhist beliefs; while the director says he purposefully cut out some of the more overtly religious content, to make the film more about near-death experiences & the Vietnam war.

I view the former as far more fitting, and ultimately the best interpretation for how the film actually came out in the end.

Thanks. Great interpretation. That’s much more meaningful than

[Show spoiler]solely a dream or hallucinations before dying.

[Edward R. Meow]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Thanks. Great interpretation. That’s much more meaningful than

[Show spoiler]solely a dream or hallucinations before dying.

You're welcome, something I forget to add

[Show spoiler]In the film, I view the character Jezzie (Elizabeth Pena) as a sort of succubus/stand-in for sexual sin.

In medieval Christian writings, the name Jezebel is often associated with sexual lust and temptation, misleading men down a path of sin. The similar names, combined with how sexual Jezzie's character is in the film (nude in several scenes, seducing Jacob in others, as well as that party scene), seems to draw a comparison between the two.

A major part of Jacob's issues in the film surround his broken family, and him leaving his wife for Jezzie. Jezzie also burns the photograph of his son, which suggests to me that she's doing what she can to lead him away from proper closure.

It's not until he begins pushing her away towards the film's end that he's able to break free and move on. I don't think she's a literal demon, as she does help him in other ways (such as with the ice bath), but is more broadly representative of earthly sinful temptations. In Jacob's case, infidelity.

I will add though that I last saw this movie about 6 months ago, so I may be misremembering some details.

[Hypnosifl]

On Jezzie,

[Show spoiler]I think that in the context of the purgatory/bardo world, Jacob's wife divorced him before he got together with Jezzie, infidelity wasn't the cause of the end of their marriage. The script here has some lines that are in the movie a little after 24:30:

LOUIS: Her problem is that you spent eight years getting a PhD and then went to work for the post office.

JACOB: What can I tell you, Louis? After Nam I didn't want to think anymore.

Right before that it has some lines that didn't make it into the movie, about how his wife was hoping he'd become a professor and make enough money for them to get away from the house she grew up in:

JACOB What? She threw me out, remember. She wanted some professor to carry her far away from Brooklyn. Only we didn't make it. She can't forgive me that she still lives in the same house she grew up in.

Also although Jezzie does burn the photos, in a later scene (at around 31:50) she does try to get him to talk about his past:

JEZZIE Maybe it's all the pressure, Jake. The money. Things like that. Or your wife.

JACOB Why do you bring her up?

JEZZIE 'Cause she's always on your mind.

JACOB When was the last time I said a word?

JEZZIE It has nothin' to do with talkin'.

JEZZIE (continuing) Or maybe it's the war.

JEZZIE (continuing) It's still there, Jake. (she points to his brain) Even if you never say a word about it. You can't spend two years in Vietnam ...

Also an interesting bit of dialogue in the script that didn't make it to the movie, which prefigures Louis' speech about seeing devils or angels depending on how attached you are to your former life, and I think goes against the idea that her role was just to hold him back from the spiritual progress he needed to make:

JEZZIE So tell me ... am I still an angel?

JACOB (smiling broadly) With wings. You transport me, you know that? You carry me away.

JEZZIE We're all angels, you know ... (she bites his earlobe. He winces) ... and devils. It's just what you choose to see.

I think there could be different interpretations of how "real" people like Jezzie and Louis are even if this is an afterlife experience--maybe it's almost like the alternate reality in It's a Wonderful Life, an actual what-if world where he makes it back from Vietnam and starts to suffer periodic hallucinations about demons etc. due to the drug they gave him (maybe aggravated by actual government agents harassing them to keep them from talking). In that case, even if events in this reality are sort of guided so the people play some kind of symbolic or spiritual role for him, they are also real in terms of having their own life and motivations and not existing exclusively to play those roles.

[Edward R. Meow]

Originally Posted by Hypnosifl

On Jezzie,

[Show spoiler]I think that in the context of the purgatory/bardo world, Jacob's wife divorced him before he got together with Jezzie, infidelity wasn't the cause of the end of their marriage. The script here has some lines that are in the movie a little after 24:30:

LOUIS: Her problem is that you spent eight years getting a PhD and then went to work for the post office.

JACOB: What can I tell you, Louis? After Nam I didn't want to think anymore.

Right before that it has some lines that didn't make it into the movie, about how his wife was hoping he'd become a professor and make enough money for them to get away from the house she grew up in:

JACOB What? She threw me out, remember. She wanted some professor to carry her far away from Brooklyn. Only we didn't make it. She can't forgive me that she still lives in the same house she grew up in.

Also although Jezzie does burn the photos, in a later scene (at around 31:50) she does try to get him to talk about his past:

JEZZIE Maybe it's all the pressure, Jake. The money. Things like that. Or your wife.

JACOB Why do you bring her up?

JEZZIE 'Cause she's always on your mind.

JACOB When was the last time I said a word?

JEZZIE It has nothin' to do with talkin'.

JEZZIE (continuing) Or maybe it's the war.

JEZZIE (continuing) It's still there, Jake. (she points to his brain) Even if you never say a word about it. You can't spend two years in Vietnam ...

Also an interesting bit of dialogue in the script that didn't make it to the movie, which prefigures Louis' speech about seeing devils or angels depending on how attached you are to your former life, and I think goes against the idea that her role was just to hold him back from the spiritual progress he needed to make:

JEZZIE So tell me ... am I still an angel?

JACOB (smiling broadly) With wings. You transport me, you know that? You carry me away.

JEZZIE We're all angels, you know ... (she bites his earlobe. He winces) ... and devils. It's just what you choose to see.

I think there could be different interpretations of how "real" people like Jezzie and Louis are even if this is an afterlife experience--maybe it's almost like the alternate reality in It's a Wonderful Life, an actual what-if world where he makes it back from Vietnam and starts to suffer periodic hallucinations about demons etc. due to the drug they gave him (maybe aggravated by actual government agents harassing them to keep them from talking). In that case, even if events in this reality are sort of guided so the people play some kind of symbolic or spiritual role for him, they are also real in terms of having their own life and motivations and not existing exclusively to play those roles.

Some great finds with those deleted lines, thanks for sharing!

[LanceL]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Edward R. Meow

My interpretation for the movie is that it should not be viewed as a dream, but rather a purgatory-like state. Jacob isn't dying during the film, he's already dead following the opening scene, and his soul is undergoing judgement by God.

Any information he learns, about the government experiments, is revealed to him through divine means, as a way of helping him come to terms with moving on. By accepting what happened, he is able to move forth to Heaven.

But had he rejected acceptance, he would have wound up in hell, as he saw a vision of in the hospital scene. The various horrors he witnesses through the film are the demons 'leaking' through, coming to claim his soul if he is unable to move on.

Thus Jacob is 'climbing' the ladder to heaven, by coming to terms with his life.




Not sure about the commentaries, but I've read that the screenwriter & director had two different visions for the film.

The screenwriter wanted it to be a very religious & spiritual film based in Jewish, Christian, & Buddhist beliefs; while the director says he purposefully cut out some of the more overtly religious content, to make the film more about near-death experiences & the Vietnam war.

I view the former as more fitting, and ultimately the best interpretation for how the film actually came out in the end.

Not a big fan of this movie, but after reading this, I might have to watch it again with all that in mind.

[slip220]

No news about a 4K release?

[DaylightsEnd]

Originally Posted by slip220

No news about a 4K release?

Way the hell overdue.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by DaylightsEnd

Way the hell overdue.

God yes. Really hoping a boutique announces this one of these days.

[SeanJoyce]

This reminds me, I still have to pick up the Blu-ray.

Thanks y'all!

[SpiderNerd09]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

This reminds me, I still have to pick up the Blu-ray.

Thanks y'all!

If you want the most content, get the Via Vision Blu-Ray.
Tons of newly produced extras.

[Wtdk]

Originally Posted by Edward R. Meow

My interpretation for the movie is that it

[Show spoiler]should not be viewed as a dream, but rather a purgatory-like state. Jacob isn't dying during the film, he's already dead following the opening scene, and his soul is undergoing judgement by God.

Any information he learns, about the government experiments, is revealed to him through divine means, as a way of helping him come to terms with moving on. By accepting what happened, he is able to move forth to Heaven.

But had he rejected acceptance, he would have wound up in hell, as he saw a vision of in the hospital scene. The various horrors he witnesses through the film are the demons 'leaking' through, coming to claim his soul if he is unable to move on.

Thus Jacob is 'climbing' the ladder to heaven, by coming to terms with his life.

Not sure about the commentaries, but I've read that the screenwriter & director had two different visions for the film.

The screenwriter wanted it to be a very religious & spiritual film based in Jewish, Christian, & Buddhist beliefs; while the director says he purposefully cut out some of the more overtly religious content, to make the film more about near-death experiences & the Vietnam war.

I view the former as more fitting, and ultimately the best interpretation for how the film actually came out in the end.

When I was a script reader at Dino DeLaurentiis and had to write coverage on this, that was the conclusion I came to as well. That was just on the script alone.

[einnorw]

This would be a great title for Kino Lober to pick up, I can picture the slip cover already.

[Wtdk]

Surprisingly, despite some of the changes made by the director, the filmed version is very close to the script that was on The Black List (or the equivalent of that back then).

[JackForrester]

It is, there's just a lot of horror stuff that got cut.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by einnorw

This would be a great title for Kino Lober to pick up, I can picture the slip cover already.

I would love for someone to pick this up. I have to imagine it happens at some point. And it badly needs it.

[Piriven]

Originally Posted by slip220

No news about a 4K release?

Yes!

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=36634

I’m so stoked for this.

I imported the German blu-ray a few years back for some extra grain, but the film has always needed a proper restoration. Day 1 for me.

I wish Adrianne Lyne had made more horror, this film almost reaches David Lynch levels of haunting imagery.

Like this is how excited I am right now…

[slip220]

Originally Posted by Piriven

Yes!

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=36634

I’m so stoked for this.

I imported the German blu-ray a few years back for some extra grain, but the film has always needed a proper restoration. Day 1 for me.

I wish Adrianne Lyne had made more horror, this film almost reaches David Lynch levels of haunting imagery.

Like this is how excited I am right now…

[Piriven]

Originally Posted by slip220

We all are.