Ben-Hur (1959) (Ultimate Collector's Edition)

[Jacksmyname]

Another fan here of the big UCE sets.
The printed materials are terrific.
A few days ago I rearranged some things so I could have the sets on display.
Before that they were on the bottom shelves at floor level laying flat.
Now they're standing "up" on the top of my bookcase style shelving units which are about 4 1/2 feet high.
The boxes are just too nice not to display them properly.
Sets I have:
Gone With The Wind
Wizard Of Oz
Sound Of Music
Ten Commandments
Planet Of The Apes (This set isn't like the others but is about the same size because of the excellent book).
The Ben Hur set will absolutely be joining the rest.

[rondanto]

Hope Warner gives us a presentation of Ben HUR comparable to the state of the art presentation of "King of Kings"

[SolidBlu]

will wait for the standard edition, hope warner will release an emerald/scarlett edition...

[garyrc]

Originally Posted by ucfmatt

Will this come with a digital copy? I've never seen the movie but I want my first official viewing to be on my iPod Touch while riding the subway......

This is a joke, right? LOL. If you happen to be serious, I must say that iPod is one of the worst ways to watch almost any film, especially one as moving as Ben-Hur, which also has the world's least appropriate aspect ratio for IPod. I think we should conduct a campaign against movies being playable on IPod, the same way almost all classic film buffs opposed colorization. It took about 55 years for the industry to come up with 70 mm equipment & film good enough to look great on a huge screen. Indeed, Ben-Hur was advertized as being projected on "The World's Largest Screen," even though it wasn't -- even in 70 mm -- in some cities. And then there is the sound. Even though your ear buds may lend a pleasant false spatiality to the grand score, the original's 6 channel sound (the music came through 5 of them) provided real spatiality, as well as terrific dynamics -- dynamics that might be unsafe for your ears if you have the SPL up loud enough to overcome the sound of the subway. Of course the iPod will probably be clipping like crazy at that level unless they use dynamic range compression on the disk, which would be another travesty.

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by Poshteh1

It's funny that the majority of people in the US despise these big collector sets and are importing the standard case from the UK. Whereas I love these big sets and am ordering from the US!

Well, you know, the UK standard release is like 40% the price of the US release.
Maybe some exec figured since Ben-Hur is a super-widescreen film, it ought to come in a super-widescreen box.

[Boob-Ray]

Originally Posted by Jacksmyname

Another fan here of the big UCE sets.
The printed materials are terrific.
A few days ago I rearranged some things so I could have the sets on display.
Before that they were on the bottom shelves at floor level laying flat.
Now they're standing "up" on the top of my bookcase style shelving units which are about 4 1/2 feet high.
The boxes are just too nice not to display them properly.
Sets I have:
Gone With The Wind
Wizard Of Oz
Sound Of Music
Ten Commandments
Planet Of The Apes (This set isn't like the others but is about the same size because of the excellent book).
The Ben Hur set will absolutely be joining the rest.

UCEs are fun to display. I have the big entertainment shelves with the lights on the top cabinets...the Gone With The Wind positively glows with that fire red cover. Usually, getting up to open up a Blu-Ray is a formality -- like changing batteries on the remote. But when you got one of them big boys...it's an adventure!

Couple of years ago, I got that nice, 3 disc The Jazz Singer DVD set. All of the nice programs, photo cards, etc. really made the experience so much richer. That's when I decided all movies I love should come this way.

[Jacksmyname]

Originally Posted by Boob-Ray

UCEs are fun to display. I have the big entertainment shelves with the lights on the top cabinets...the Gone With The Wind positively glows with that fire red cover. Usually, getting up to open up a Blu-Ray is a formality -- like changing batteries on the remote. But when you got one of them big boys...it's an adventure!

Couple of years ago, I got that nice, 3 disc The Jazz Singer DVD set. All of the nice programs, photo cards, etc. really made the experience so much richer. That's when I decided all movies I love should come this way.

Agreed.
I'm also surprised that more films don't get releases like Gone With The Wind, etc.
I'm also surprised that so many people knock them.
The prices are usually very resonable for what they include.
Yes, some of the items might be a bit gimmicky, but that's part of the fun.
And most of what's included is great stuff.
How anyone wouldn't like the Sound Of Music set, for example, is beyond me.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by garyrc

During one sequence toward the end of the film (avoiding a spoiler) the sound was so powerful that it created a wind in the theater.

While I agree that 70mm discrete sound in roadshow theatres in the 1950s/60s sounded spectacular for the time, I doubt very much that it "created wind in the theatre". While loudspeaker systems of that time were far more efficient than today's models, I'd be surprised if total output from all amplifiers was more than 200 watts in that era (although you could drive an Altec-Lansing Voice of the Theatre speaker with a 1-watt transistor radio). Combined with the fact that the 5 channels were mounted behind the screen and that surrounds of the day were very small speakers, you were more likely to feel wind from the air conditioning (or someone blowing cigarette smoke on the back of your neck) than from the sound system.

[Boob-Ray]

Originally Posted by Jacksmyname

I'm also surprised that more films don't get releases like Gone With The Wind, etc.

Very true. Only the biggest of the biggest films seem to get UCE-treatment. Most new Blu-Ray releases, many of which are old favorites, are given Zippy packaging design -- often $7.99, bargain-bin treatment.

I'm sure if recent classics like Big Lebowski and O' Brother Where Art Thou? got a little more packaging attention, as an additional option, they would get some takers. In this day-n'-age...companies should be a little more creative and strike where the fish are biting.

But what do "consumers" know.

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by Boob-Ray

UCEs are fun to display. I have the big entertainment shelves with the lights on the top cabinets...the Gone With The Wind positively glows with that fire red cover. Usually, getting up to open up a Blu-Ray is a formality -- like changing batteries on the remote. But when you got one of them big boys...it's an adventure!

Couple of years ago, I got that nice, 3 disc The Jazz Singer DVD set. All of the nice programs, photo cards, etc. really made the experience so much richer. That's when I decided all movies I love should come this way.

The way I see it (just my opinion), blu-rays are for watching and not for displaying. Either way, I think my three shelves containing 250 blu-rays makes for an impressive display anyway, and certainly others here have much larger displays.

I think it's cool that a UCE is being released for this classic film, but I think that it shouldn't be the only option for consumers. Now I know how the digibook haters feel when they have no choice but to wait months for a cheaper release.

[garyrc]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

While I agree that 70mm discrete sound in roadshow theatres in the 1950s/60s sounded spectacular for the time, I doubt very much that it "created wind in the theatre". While loudspeaker systems of that time were far more efficient than today's models, I'd be surprised if total output from all amplifiers was more than 200 watts in that era (although you could drive an Altec-Lansing Voice of the Theatre speaker with a 1-watt transistor radio). Combined with the fact that the 5 channels were mounted behind the screen and that surrounds of the day were very small speakers, you were more likely to feel wind from the air conditioning (or someone blowing cigarette smoke on the back of your neck) than from the sound system.

The wind came at the same time during the showing (you may know the sequence I mean -- not the chariot race) all of the times I saw Ben-Hur in 70mm, afternoon and evening, cold weather or warm. The wind came from the front, dead ahead. The concrete floor also shook in a very obvious way during that sequence in the rows near the screen (~~ 9th row).

In a much smaller 70 mm theater in San Francisco (the St Francis), they used 125 watts per channel RMS, for a total of 625 watts from the 5 front channels combined. The amps were by Ampex --at least they were embossed with the Ampex name, and Ampex was retained to do much of the original 70 mm Todd-AO theatrical sound. I assume in the larger theater (the Coronet) they used for the 1959/1960 70 mm showings of Ben-Hur, even bigger amps were used. It's my understanding that Ben-Hur tended to play in theaters that were originally equipped by Ampex for 70 mm Todd-AO, even though BH was in Camera 65, and the speakers used were often James B. Lansing -- there is a picture of one of these speaker systems on the Lansing Heritage website in an article that discusses 70 mm Todd-AO and JBL.. They were fully horn loaded, and the bass horn had a large flat surface to either side and above and below, that was part of the actual box, and served to provide additional loading. The JBL ones I've seen had this loading surface, while the Altecs had a different way of achieving a similar effect -- they had large, braced plywood "wings" to either side of the primary speaker enclosure. At the Coronet, the surrounds were in the ceiling, of all places, and were large wood enclosures pretty much flush mounted in the ceiling, with the approximately 1" wide front wooden edges just barely protruding from the ceiling. They were about 2.5 feet by 3 feet or more across the downward facing front (mouth) of the enclosure. My audiophile friends and I spent much time staring at them, and finally brought a pair of binoculars, to take a closer look. They looked a lot like JBL C40 (or C34, but I doubt it) rear loaded horn enclosures with each having 15" woofers (which those two enclosures would usually have). While it is true that some ordinary CinemaScope theaters would often have very small surround boxes with a 15" D130 or similar crammed into them, they didn't have near the impact that the ceiling horns had at the Coronet. There is the sound of splintering wood in the first half of Ben-Hur that apparently came from the left behind the screen channels and also from the surrounds. People in the audience could be seen leaning to the right to dodge the impact. Very funny, but dramatic.

IMO the analog magnetic sound for the early 70 mm films was actually better, warmer, and more dynamic than in the later films, right up to and including IMAX -- this even though the old speakers started to roll off just below 40 Hz. THX moved away from horn loaded bass, and, IMO, lost some impact above 40 Hz, but still in the bass range. To me, the sound for Ben-Hur, Oklahoma!, Around the World in 80 Days(1956), South Pacific, etc. was much better than the sound in Star Wars, or Close Encounters, for instance.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by garyrc

To me, the sound for Ben-Hur, Oklahoma!, Around the World in 80 Days(1956), South Pacific, etc. was much better than the sound in Star Wars, or Close Encounters, for instance.

"Close Encounters" at the Ziegfeld in NYC used bolted speakers with 3/4" plywood fronts as well as 8 Cerwin-Vega baby earthquake speakers and 21 Bose 901 surround speakers and sounded absolutely fantastic.

That and "Apocalypse Now" at the same theatre were my best sound experiences during that era. "Star Wars" at the Loews Astor Plaza in 70mm was okay, but nowhere near as good as Close Encounters.

In the 1960s, "West Side Story" at the Rivoli and "How The West Was Won" at the Loews Cinerama were my best sound experiences.

[garyrc]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

In the 1960s, "West Side Story" at the Rivoli and "How The West Was Won" at the Loews Cinerama were my best sound experiences.

I believe that the Rivoli was probably equipped similarly to the Cornet, since both were set up for the first 70 mm Todd-AO film, Oklahoma!, and both ran the 70 mm version of Around the World in 80 Days (1956). I think both theaters were equipped when Mike Todd still was connected with Magna Theater Corp, which was in charge of "four walling" theaters and bringing in 70 mm.

As incredible as it may seem, West Side Story did not seem to have quite the warmth and extreme dynamics of Oklahoma!, 80 Days & Ben-Hur, although it had greater dynamic contrasts -- by far -- than the usual film. 80 Days may have been helped by the 114 piece orchestra and the fact that Mike Todd recommended the sound levels, and according to his son, had a physical struggle with his AD, who happened to be sitting next to him, over the remote sound level box at the Rivoli premiere, because Todd had the sound turned up so far. All I can say is that all of the above mentioned films had gorgeous sound when I saw them in 70mm. Some suffered greatly when later released in 35 mm, especially when cursed with optical sound, in a few cases.

[Boob-Ray]

Originally Posted by wilky61

The way I see it (just my opinion), blu-rays are for watching and not for displaying. Either way, I think my three shelves containing 250 blu-rays makes for an impressive display anyway, and certainly others here have much larger displays.

I think it's cool that a UCE is being released for this classic film, but I think that it shouldn't be the only option for consumers. Now I know how the digibook haters feel when they have no choice but to wait months for a cheaper release.

Totally 1000% agree. -- deluxe versions should be "a version" and not the "only option." As a result my deluxe version is somewhat less unique. I also completely respect "uniformity of collection" -- one of the things I really like about (most) Criterions. It looks awesome to have a wall of movies like that.

I do look at UCEs as being almost like movie posters. Memorabilia for the display case. Ideally...if I had a dedicated Home Theater Room (someday.....) I would have all my UCEs displayed in a special location...maybe even pull out some of the lobby cards etc, I don't know. I would definitely have a few choice movie posters on the wall...but I'd have something special for the UCEs. That stuff is really cool -- and in the grand scheme of things, they cost just a little more than the plastic budget package. Not always...but you know what I mean.

The standard, plastic packages are for the media closet -- behind the black curtain -- in the projector room. UCEs go in the lobby.


Anyway...I CAN NOT wait for Ben Hur!!!!!!!

[Boob-Ray]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

"Close Encounters" at the Ziegfeld in NYC used bolted speakers with 3/4" plywood fronts as well as 8 Cerwin-Vega baby earthquake speakers and 21 Bose 901 surround speakers and sounded absolutely fantastic.

That and "Apocalypse Now" at the same theatre were my best sound experiences during that era. "Star Wars" at the Loews Astor Plaza in 70mm was okay, but nowhere near as good as Close Encounters.

In the 1960s, "West Side Story" at the Rivoli and "How The West Was Won" at the Loews Cinerama were my best sound experiences.

That sounds awesome!

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by Poshteh1

It's funny that the majority of people in the US despise these big collector sets and are importing the standard case from the UK. Whereas I love these big sets and am ordering from the US!

For myself: I live in a tiny stone cottage, and the space required by these huge sets, no matter how lavish they look, is a luxury I can't afford.

Besides, I've learnt from experience that the extras ultimately mean nothing to me. I have all three 4-disc sets of the three LotR EE films, and I've never even loaded any of the extras discs in my player - but I liked the packaging that looks like old books. (I wish those EEs on Blu-ray would come in a films-only set, because I'd simply swap the 6 film discs over and keep the existing DVD packages.)

[Poshteh1]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

For myself: I live in a tiny stone cottage, and the space required by these huge sets, no matter how lavish they look, is a luxury I can't afford.

Besides, I've learnt from experience that the extras ultimately mean nothing to me. I have all three 4-disc sets of the three LotR EE films, and I've never even loaded any of the extras discs in my player - but I liked the packaging that looks like old books. (I wish those EEs on Blu-ray would come in a films-only set, because I'd simply swap the 6 film discs over and keep the existing DVD packages.)

Completely understand, I do think that studios should give consumers a choice though, and not just offer these expensive sets as the only option, it's not everyone's taste!

[jaaguir]

Originally Posted by SolidBlu

will wait for the standard edition, hope warner will release an emerald/scarlett edition...

Me too.
I just hope they don't go with a movie-only edition and leave out the blu-ray discs with the extras.
They released a version like this for GwtW and TWoO, and also the 3-disc emerald/scarlett editions that you mention (which I own). I figure they draw some conclusion about that from sales, and I just hope it was the right one (for my interests!).

[rickah88]

I don't understand how people still balk at UCE's?
Folks, this is business 101: Sell them higher! You buy a car, what's on display: the fully loaded models. You buy a house, the realator will always push the higher end house for which you qualify. Go to any A/V store, high end equipment will always be out in front for everyone to see.
Why should this change for blu-ray's? The UCE comes out first, then several months later a standard edition will come out. If studios did it the other way around, UCE's would never sell as much.
It's also why retailors stock up for holiday spending: Impulse buyers come out in droves.
It's always been this way, and it always will be.

[Constitution 101]

Originally Posted by rickah88

I don't understand how people still balk at UCE's?
Folks, this is business 101: Sell them higher! You buy a car, what's on display: the fully loaded models. You buy a house, the realator will always push the higher end house for which you qualify. Go to any A/V store, high end equipment will always be out in front for everyone to see.
Why should this change for blu-ray's? The UCE comes out first, then several months later a standard edition will come out. If studios did it the other way around, UCE's would never sell as much.
It's also why retailors stock up for holiday spending: Impulse buyers come out in droves.
It's always been this way, and it always will be.

That bit of truth is always SO refreshing on a site like this. The large majority of what you read is complaining about companies doing what's in their best financial interest(maximizing profit). As if any of us do anything different in our daily lives.