Oppo confirms BDP-103/105 will be last Blu-ray players without online activation

[Ruined]

They are not going to disable movies never sold with online DRM.



But that certainly does not preclude studios making online DRM UHD titles the only option in the future after you've invested tons of cash in 4k hardware /software.



Like boiling a frog, they can now turn up the heat gradually until the consumer has no option but to buy the online drm version or no 4k version at all.



Studios used all the DRM in the initial BD spec (including optional BD+) and then added *more* DRM that wasn't even in the initial spec (Cinavia).



So I think one will need a few truckloads of salt to go with the comment that studios will not use the online activation DRM they put in the UHDBD spec in the future. Especially since leaked Sony documents indicate that the inital UHDBD spec required mandatory online activation for all UHDBD movies, however this was revised to optional in movies but mandatory in all hardware for the final spec.

[F34R]

I just won't buy them if they have online DRM. If I can't use the discs in any compatible player, anywhere, etc., then I won't buy it. That's it.

I don't NEED to have 4k anything to be honest. I would live just fine with 1080p.

[jvonl]

Originally Posted by F34R

I just won't buy them if they have online DRM. If I can't use the discs in any compatible player, anywhere, etc., then I won't buy it. That's it.

I don't NEED to have 4k anything to be honest. I would live just fine with 1080p.

Exactly. Buy it, open it, play it. Nothing else!

[aaronwt2065]

Originally Posted by F34R

I just won't buy them if they have online DRM. If I can't use the discs in any compatible player, anywhere, etc., then I won't buy it. That's it.

I don't NEED to have 4k anything to be honest. I would live just fine with 1080p.

It doesn't matter to me either way. Any electronic device I have is always connected to the internet. If my main internet service goes down I have backup internet options over cellular. This has been the case for a long time at home. Online DRM will make no difference in my use if it's required to play a disc. I'll still continue to buy a bunch of UHD BD titles.

[jvonl]

Originally Posted by aaronwt2065

It doesn't matter to me either way. Any electronic device I have is always connected to the internet. If my main internet service goes down I have backup internet options over cellular. This has been the case for a long time at home. Online DRM will make no difference in my use if it's required to play a disc. I'll still continue to buy a bunch of UHD BD titles.

Perfectly all right as long as you never want to play it on a different player in another room or at a friend's house. Once DRM is implemented your UHD disc is basically a digital movie with fewer playing options than a digital code. All for a resolution bump that few people will ever be able to see.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by aaronwt2065

It doesn't matter to me either way. Any electronic device I have is always connected to the internet. If my main internet service goes down I have backup internet options over cellular. This has been the case for a long time at home. Online DRM will make no difference in my use if it's required to play a disc. I'll still continue to buy a bunch of UHD BD titles.

I guess, if you don't mind paying $30 for a rental. Because when the DRM servers go down, and they will eventually when physical media dies, you could have unlimited backup internet sources and your Online DRM discs still won't play. If studios aren't making money anymore, no reason for them to keep the servers up.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by aaronwt2065

It doesn't matter to me either way. Any electronic device I have is always connected to the internet. If my main internet service goes down I have backup internet options over cellular. This has been the case for a long time at home. Online DRM will make no difference in my use if it's required to play a disc. I'll still continue to buy a bunch of UHD BD titles.

Originally Posted by F34R

I just won't buy them if they have online DRM. If I can't use the discs in any compatible player, anywhere, etc., then I won't buy it. That's it.

I don't NEED to have 4k anything to be honest. I would live just fine with 1080p.

Which begs to ask the question, why is it worth buying new player, new display, new receiver, new discs - all when the studios' endgame appears to be online DRM for a format that hits diminishing returns in quality improvement over 1080p BD? Investing all that money in UHDBD gear and then reverting back to 1080p BDs once online DRM hits makes the investment more questionable than usual IMO.

[JohnAV]

^ Which begs the question why this thread is entitled "Oppo confirms BDP-103/105 will be last Blu-ray players without online activation" if you are going to be paranoid about this whole UHD marketplace?

How about UHD is the end of things? Or UHD might make my life miserable?

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

^ Which begs the question why this thread is entitled "Oppo confirms BDP-103/105 will be last Blu-ray players without online activation" if you are going to be paranoid about this whole UHD marketplace?

How about UHD is the end of things? Or UHD might make my life miserable?

OH SNAP!

[Show spoiler]

[jvonl]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

^ Which begs the question why this thread is entitled "Oppo confirms BDP-103/105 will be last Blu-ray players without online activation" if you are going to be paranoid about this whole UHD marketplace?

How about UHD is the end of things? Or UHD might make my life miserable?

Yes, UHD and DRM are universal, but the thread was simply a response to Oppo's announcement. Because of Oppo's stature with videophiles, their press release caught more attention than a corresponding announcement from Sony would have. Want a new title? How about UHD is unnecessary because of the law of diminishing returns (and DRM makes it stupid)? Or, we couldn't sell you on 3-D so let's try UHD, and, by the way, DRM makes it even more stupid? John, why don't you explain why UHD and DRM are a benefit for consumers instead of focusing on what you call paranoia? The bump in resolution will not be visible to most consumers, and, oh yeah, DRM makes it stupid. The studios wanted DRM to be mandatory from the beginning, so what makes you think it will never be put into effect? UHD will not make anyone's life miserable, but DRM very well might! There can be little doubt that the studios want to eliminate physical media, and if they succeed, why would they keep their UHD servers running? They wouldn't, so say goodbye to your DRM activated UHD titles. Greed is good may be the corporate mantra, but not so much for consumers.

[JohnAV]

Beg your pardon, but there was no announcement.

Originally Posted by Ruined

So I spoke with an Oppo rep.

Once their UHD players are out, they are going to discontinue their 1080p BD player line.

They also confirmed they will be implementing all features of AACS2.0 as required by the BDA, which includes online disc activation.

All UHD players have to comply with their respective licensing per BDA. All conjecture here is based on stolen/leaked proprietary documentation from Sony.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

^ Which begs the question why this thread is entitled "Oppo confirms BDP-103/105 will be last Blu-ray players without online activation" if you are going to be paranoid about this whole UHD marketplace?

How about UHD is the end of things? Or UHD might make my life miserable?

As mentioned several times already and noted in the thread subject, because Oppo will be discontinuing their 1080p BD line shortly after UHDBD player is released according to their reps.

If Oppo continued their 1080p BD line like other manufacturers it would not be an issue for me. Their decision will eventually only give the option of a UHDBD player if people want an Oppo, while some may have no desire to get one due to DRM or other reason.

[jvonl]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Beg your pardon, but there was no announcement.

All UHD players have to comply with their respective licensing per BDA. All conjecture here is based on stolen/leaked proprietary documentation from Sony.

So sorry, I equated the info from Oppo as an announcement. Why don't you answer my questions about the benefits of UHD and DRM to the consumer? Too tough for you? Again, you poke at paranoia and thread titles without saying anything about the ACTUAL ISSUES people are concerned with. I guess your belief in the innate goodness of the studios is just greater than mine. Wouldn't take much... Try again.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Ruined

As mentioned several times already and noted in the thread subject, because Oppo will be discontinuing their 1080p BD line shortly after UHDBD player is released according to their reps. If Oppo continued their 1080p BD line like other manufacturers it would not be an issue for me.

Logically its doesn't make sense to continue to sell a universal BD player when you can sell a universal UHD player that plays BD as is. But again there has been no press releases about what your focused on, only the usually emails that occasionally someone posts:

Example

Dave,

We will not have a UHD player until sometime in late-2016 or early-2017.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119

[jvonl]

Originally Posted by Ruined

As mentioned several times already and noted in the thread subject, because Oppo will be discontinuing their 1080p BD line shortly after UHDBD player is released according to their reps.

If Oppo continued their 1080p BD line like other manufacturers it would not be an issue for me. Their decision will eventually force people into a UHDBD player if people want an Oppo, while some may have no desire to do so for DRM or other reason.

Exactly! Going all in on the NEXT BIG THING is foolish. By the time I can afford OLED they will all be 4K, if they aren't already. No problem. But, it surely would be nice to have a quality player unencumbered by useless crap. Hence, the wish for Oppo to continue with the 103/105 into the future, even if they make no new 1080 models. Worst case, I buy another 103D before they are gone. Oh well....

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by jvonl

So sorry, I equated the info from Oppo as an announcement. Why don't you answer my questions about the benefits of UHD and DRM to the consumer? Too tough for you? Again, you poke at paranoia and thread titles without saying anything about the ACTUAL ISSUES people are concerned with. I guess your belief in the innate goodness of the studios is just greater than mine. Wouldn't take much... Try again.

This has been such a long journey to get UHD recording and playback agreed to by the industry and studios, that there really isn't anything that is of a surprise and a concern at this point. To be honest, if something was going to be that restrictive to the consumers, there be no point making products for the marketplace.

[jvonl]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

This has been such a long journey to get UHD recording and playback agreed to by the industry and studios, that there really isn't anything that is of a surprise and a concern at this point. To be honest, if something was going to be that restrictive to the consumers, there be no point making products for the marketplace.

Good point. So why is DRM still required on all 4-K players? Get rid of that requirement if they aren't going to use it. I still see no real world 4-K benefit for most consumers unless they have large screens or if they will be sitting two feet from the tv. No one has ever said to me that my 720 Kuro is no good. I spent many hours watching 720 and 1080 side by side before concluding that 1080 provided no benefit at my viewing distance. So, what benefit will 4-K bring, other than making money for the manufacturers?

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by jvonl

Good point. So why is DRM still required on all 4-K players? Get rid of that requirement if they aren't going to use it. I still see no real world 4-K benefit for most consumers unless they have large screens or if they will be sitting two feet from the tv. No one has ever said to me that my 720 Kuro is no good. I spent many hours watching 720 and 1080 side by side before concluding that 1080 provided no benefit at my viewing distance. So, what benefit will 4-K bring, other than making money for the manufacturers?

To prevent counterfets from impacting sales of licensed content is the main goal. Yes we know HDCP continues to bother consumers who purchase their media legally.

There were some workarounds for HDCP 2.2 as shown in this article which the industry used watermarks to trace the source of the theft. See Is the HDCP 2.2 copy protection broken by movie pirates? This is probably a basis for some of the discussion in this thread and why they allowed those options that concern Ruined present in the latest HDCP.

It was apparent like in the previous HDCP incident that hardware was involved, so a couple of companies got taken to court. The first is
Ace Deal Settles 4K Copy Protection Stripping Lawsuits: Pays Money; Promises to be Good in the Future
The second and clearly more a violation was LegendSky’s HDFury devices which faked identification of a non-HDCP 2.2 device downstream. See Company being sued by Warner and DCP for helping 4K content piracy claims “fair use” protection.

Both of these companies tried to capitalize on a workaround of DRM, which got them in very hot water. Neither did the "fair use" work because its no longer legal to make optical media backups which don't incorporate anything that would prevent more copying.

Yes the few make it terrible for many of us if you know what i mean.

As for benefits of 4K that is quite obvious, HDR and WCG immediately impress one even if the content is 1080P rather then 4K as more lifelike colors, whiter whites and blacker blacks, everything just sizzles and pops. The higher resolution allows less artifacts to be present distorting the content you are looking at so even if you feel your eyes can't discern 4K from 1080P to a great degree it all looks much more lifelike like looking more at the actual image say through a window. Hope this helps.

[Ruined]

Sony BMG Rootkit
SonY SecuROM
Cinavia

It would be nice to think studios won't go overboard exploiting DRM, but unfortunately history demonstrates otherwise. If they ain't gonna use it, then it shouldn't be in there at all.

[albey000]

Originally Posted by Ruined

As mentioned several times already and noted in the thread subject, because Oppo will be discontinuing their 1080p BD line shortly after UHDBD player is released according to their reps.

If Oppo continued their 1080p BD line like other manufacturers it would not be an issue for me. Their decision will eventually only give the option of a UHDBD player if people want an Oppo, while some may have no desire to get one due to DRM or other reason.

Hi Ruined.
I like the fact that OPPO make 4-different models of BD players at the moment, and i think it would be silly of OPPO to pull the plug on all of these models and replace with just one player at whatever price it will be. Think 105 price rather than 103. They really need to see how the new 4K players sell, before making any decisions on pulling the rest.

P.S - I personally will not buy Disc's that need to be activated online to play.