Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

This is the important question that you avoided:

The thing is, we are all anonymous here. I have no proof that you don’t watch cable, streaming, play digital video games etc..
you could be telling us anything!


Yes, I download VR games digitally. I also buy VR games on disc when available. It’s not possible to buy all VR games on disc.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

It's true that you have no proof that I practice what I preach, you have to take my word for it. But we know that you don't practice what you preach.



It's also not possible to watch all movies on disc or watch all TV shows on disc or play all games on disc. It takes will power to avoid them.

If you are perfectly fine with buying digital when digital is the only option then you aren't giving up anything. If you actually had the conviction to avoid the thing you rally against then people may take you more seriously.

As I have argued in the past, I buy discs for the improved quality.
Gaming is like for like. No difference at all in either version.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

As I have argued in the past, I buy discs for the improved quality.
Gaming is like for like. No difference at all in either version.

So just to be clear you have absolutely no problem with everyone switching over to Kaleidescape? Your only problem with digital is its inferior picture and audio quality (even though the majority of your fears do not mention picture or audio quality at all)?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

So just to be clear you have absolutely no problem with everyone switching over to Kaleidescape? Your only problem with digital is its inferior picture and audio quality (even though the majority of your fears do not mention picture or audio quality at all)?

Just to be clear, you disputed my last post about watch parties then admitted that scenario was very possible. You stated that they may well produce most films that lend themselves to social viewing while a few would be traditional. Do you realise you unwittingly agreed with me? Let’s address that little nugget first.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

So just to be clear you have absolutely no problem with everyone switching over to Kaleidescape? Your only problem with digital is its inferior picture and audio quality (even though the majority of your fears do not mention picture or audio quality at all)?

Not just that but the possibility of the picture/audio degrading due to certain issues. That’s a huge no no. Also, I like stuff I can hold.

[Vilya]

Another day and another ridiculous, fabricated, and fear filled prediction.

This short reply is already more effort than this latest paranoid episode warrants.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, I download VR games digitally. I also buy VR games on disc when available. It’s not possible to buy all VR games on disc.

You constantly make digital content out to be the devil, demonizing it at at every opportunity, yet you are one of the biggest digital content supporters on these forums.

You defend buying buying digital games because the quality of them meets with your approval yet you condemn other people for buying digital movies and TV shows even though their reasons for purchasing them are the same as your reason for buying digital games: both you and they are happy with the quality.

You say that some games are only available digitally and that makes it more than okay to buy them. The same is true for some movies and TV shows, yet you are not so charitably inclined when you criticize those that buy them. It is okay for you to avail yourself of such exclusive digital games, but you see it is as a crime against the arts when others buy exclusive digital video content. You accuse such people of hastening the end of discs, home theaters, and the very movies themselves.

You blame digital movies and TV shows for bringing ruination to cinema and TV shows as an art form. You blame those who buy digital video content for a whole litany of evils. Yet, you do the exact same thing; only the type of digital content is different.

You completely ignore the ownership issues and the fact that digital games can be modified at any time and that the servers that are necessary to play many of them can be turned off at any time. When that applies to digital movies and TV shows, you absolutely rail against it, but you shrug it off when it applies to digital games.

It all boils down to you being the consummate hypocrite. You purchase digital content for the same reasons that other people do, but you chastise them for doing it only because the type of such content is different from the type that you buy.

You probably spend more on digital content than alchav does making you a bigger digital fanboy than he could ever hope to be.

Like with alchav, I don't personally care what either one of you buy as it has no direct impact upon me. It is your holier than thou preaching against digital content while fully indulging in it yourself that earns you the title of hypocrite.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

That's not strictly true.

People buying popular movies like Avengers, James Bond, Transformers, Star-Wars or Mission Impossible digitally instead of physically doesn't matter because they sell so well in all formats that all future movies will continue to be released on all formats.

But people buying shows like Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Halt & Catch Fire, Casual, and Cougar Town digitally instead of physically has caused each of those to skip physical releases for the later seasons.

The same applies to video games. Major releases sell great in all formats but when indie games don't sell well on physical media future indie games don't bother with physical media. Additionally when games with arbitrary online requirements sell well than that causes future games to institute them as well.

I consider such things to be indirect impacts over which I have zero control. I can still buy the vast majority of what I want on disc. I do all I can to support physical media and that is the limit of my market influence.

The reason for my not caring is largely due to the fact that I have no control (nor should I) over the decisions that other people make for themselves. I do not waste my energy worrying about things beyond my control. All I can do is state my reasons for my purchase choices and hope that they resonate with some of the people some of the time while being realistic enough to know that people will do as they please, my reasons notwithstanding.

[rui no onna]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

But people buying shows like Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Halt & Catch Fire, Casual, and Cougar Town digitally instead of physically has caused each of those to skip physical releases for the later seasons.

Sadly this. One reason I still bought DVDs for Veronica Mars, Smallville, etc. even when it's available in higher quality HD digitally.

Was Daredevil even released on Blu-ray in the US? I imported mine from UK.

Preordered Batman: The Animated Series on Blu-ray as soon as that became available. Same with Batman Beyond. I'm very happy Warner Archive's releasing the complete Teen Titans on Blu-ray and will be preordering that as soon as a preorder link becomes available.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by rui no onna

Sadly this. One reason I still bought DVDs for Veronica Mars, Smallville, etc. even when it's available in higher quality HD digitally.

Was Daredevil even released on Blu-ray in the US? I imported mine from UK.

Preordered Batman: The Animated Series on Blu-ray as soon as that became available. Same with Batman Beyond. I'm very happy Warner Archive's releasing the complete Teen Titans on Blu-ray.

I still buy DVDs and I do so regardless of whether or not there is a higher quality digital version available. I won't buy a digital movie or TV show.

Quality is very important to be certain, but real tangible ownership and unalterable content is even more important.

Incidentally, I have put a self imposed moratorium on buying video games. I have not bought one in ages, maybe not in years. I have such a backlog of games to play that I have decided that I have more than enough. Most of what I own were gifts; my leisure money is spent primarily on movies. Some of these games may not even work now due to the ephemeral nature of digital content.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You constantly make digital content out to be the devil, demonizing it at at every opportunity, yet you are one of the biggest digital content supporters on these forums.

You defend buying buying digital games because the quality of them meets with your approval yet you condemn other people for buying digital movies and TV shows even though their reasons for purchasing them are the same as your reason for buying digital games: both you and they are happy with the quality.

You say that some games are only available digitally and that makes it more than okay to buy them. The same is true for some movies and TV shows, yet you are not so charitably inclined when you criticize those that buy them. It is okay for you to avail yourself of such exclusive digital games, but you see it is as a crime against the arts when others buy exclusive digital video content. You accuse such people of hastening the end of discs, home theaters, and the very movies themselves.

You blame digital movies and TV shows for bringing ruination to cinema and TV shows as an art form. You blame those who buy digital video content for a whole litany of evils. Yet, you do the exact same thing; only the type of digital content is different.

You completely ignore the ownership issues and the fact that digital games can be modified at any time and that the servers that are necessary to play many of them can be turned off at any time. When that applies to digital movies and TV shows, you absolutely rail against it, but you shrug it off when it applies to digital games.

It all boils down to you being the consummate hypocrite. You purchase digital content for the same reasons that other people do, but you chastise them for doing it only because the type of such content is different from the type that you buy.

You probably spend more on digital content than alchav does making you a bigger digital fanboy than he could ever hope to be.

Like with alchav, I don't personally care what either one of you buy as it has no direct impact upon me. It is your holier than thou preaching against digital content while fully indulging in it yourself that earns you the title of hypocrite.

But that’s not a fair argument. Film is my passion. Anyone who uses the internet is using digital. This forum is digital. The dial on my microwave is digital. I don’t see how me owning five VR games amounts to being a hypocrite. I would have to give up on VR otherwise and that’s a format that doesn’t lend itself well to optical discs. It’s dangerous to keep swapping discs in VR and also potentially harmful to the headset as you have to keep removing it.

Posting this now is taking advantage of digital technology. I would rather the internet doesn’t exist, but it does.

[rui no onna]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But that’s not a fair argument. Film is my passion. Anyone who uses the internet is using digital. This forum is digital. The dial on my microwave is digital. I don’t see how me owning five VR games amounts to being a hypocrite. I would have to give up on VR otherwise and that’s a format that doesn’t lend itself well to optical discs. It’s dangerous to keep swapping discs in VR and also potentially harmful to the headset as you have to keep removing it.

Posting this now is taking advantage of digital technology. I would rather the internet doesn’t exist, but it does.

Strictly speaking, DVDs, HD-DVDs, Blu-ray and 4K UHD Blu-rays are all digital files stored on optical media.

Primary difference with purchases via iTunes/Vudu/etc. is delivery mechanism (internet vs disc), bitrates (ergo quality) and licensing/ownership.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Then your selection of movies and TV shows on physical media would be much smaller than it currently is. You'd only be able to buy the discs that happened to be available locally. The internet is an absolutely fantastic tool and I certainly wouldn't want it to ever go away.

The internet is digital. It has eliminated many different types of jobs and caused unemployment. How can you support such a format? You reap the benefits of a digital world while refusing to buy digital products. Hypocritical?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The internet is digital. It has eliminated many different types of jobs and caused unemployment. How can you support such a format? You reap the benefits of a digital world while refusing to buy digital products. Hypocritical?

Someone else here likes to say that its "all digital" and it is just as idiotic a thing to say when you say it. The implied equivalency is blatantly false. It makes no more sense than saying food is "all food."

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But that’s not a fair argument. Film is my passion. Anyone who uses the internet is using digital. This forum is digital. The dial on my microwave is digital. I don’t see how me owning five VR games amounts to being a hypocrite. I would have to give up on VR otherwise and that’s a format that doesn’t lend itself well to optical discs. It’s dangerous to keep swapping discs in VR and also potentially harmful to the headset as you have to keep removing it.

Posting this now is taking advantage of digital technology. I would rather the internet doesn’t exist, but it does.

It is a perfectly fair argument.

Labeling movies your "passion" does not give you a free pass to indulge in digital content where and when it suits you all while criticizing others for doing the same thing.

You do not get to define what constitutes a "passion" for anyone but yourself, either. Someone who owns a large collection of digital movies is not less "passionate" than you are just because they buy them differently than you do. Just because they do not appreciate the quality differences between physical and digital formats as much as you do does not make them less of a fan of film.

Of course, you think that because you buy movies on disc that that gives you some sort of imaginary credentials elevating you above the digital customers that you disparagingly refer to as the "unwashed masses", but this is simply more of your delusional, and even elitist, thinking on display. Digital customers just have a difference of opinion on how best to buy, store, and view their purchased content, but that in no way means that they love films less than anyone else here does.

The internet is a wonderful tool that can be used for either good or bad purposes, but that is not the fault of the tool. The internet is a an absolute godsend for vast numbers of people for innumerable uses and you will find very few people that will share your wish that it had never existed. You sound like a Luddite in the extreme.

You remain a hypocrite because you openly support digital content while criticizing others for doing the same. All of your protestations and denials are just your weak attempts to rationalize your behavior while you continue to belittle others that also support digital content. Plainly put, you are no different than anyone else who buys digital content. You have your reasons for buying digital content and other people have their reasons. Your reasons are not better than those of anyone else.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The internet is digital. It has eliminated many different types of jobs and caused unemployment. How can you support such a format? You reap the benefits of a digital world while refusing to buy digital products. Hypocritical?

The internet has created more jobs than it has cost. Are you planning to give up your car because of the adverse impact that the automotive industry had upon the horse and buggy business? In general, technology creates more new jobs than it eliminates.

"In the next four years, more than 75 million jobs may be lost as companies shift to more automation, according to new estimates by the World Economic Forum. But the projections have an upside: 133 million new jobs will emerge during that period."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...ic-forum-says/

The internet is about far more than shopping. While it does give access to the widest selection of goods, both physical and digital, and services possible to people across the world, it provides far, far more than just that.

In the simplest of descriptions, the internet is a massive and wondrous communication system.

I could spend a great amount of time listing the uses and the benefits of the internet beyond that of mere consumerism, but why should I make the effort when you are either dumber than a bag of hammers or you are being deliberately obtuse. I prefer to think the former, but I am still going to save myself the trouble.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The internet has created as many, maybe more, jobs than it has cost. Are you planning to give up your car because of the adverse impact that the automotive industry had upon the horse and buggy business?

The internet is about far more than shopping. While it does give access to the widest selection of goods, both physical and digital, and services possible to people across the world, it provides far, far more than just that.

In the simplest of descriptions, the internet is a massive and wondrous communication system.

I could spend a great amount of time listing the uses and the benefits of the internet beyond that of mere consumerism, but why should I make the effort when you are either dumber than a bag of hammers or you are being deliberately obtuse. I prefer to think the former, but I am still going to save myself the trouble.

This line of posts is in relation to Penguin. He has a extremist approach and I’m trying to point out that there are limits to his stance. He won’t buy digital media but he will use digital tools to buy discs. He is having his cake and eating it. How is that different to what he accuses me of?

It’s just a bit of flippancy on my part. Penguin too likes to preach. He has taken it upon himself to take up the third royal chair in this little community of ours poking the lion whenever he sees fit.

The internet is a quite incredible tool, but in truth, film wouldn’t be under threat if it didn’t exist. It has created a world where attention spans are stretched to the limit by too much media and too many choices. I quite liked the time before the internet. A thriving shopping centre, a thriving music industry and a unthreatened film industry.
People also talked to one another far more without being welded to 5 inch rectangle slabs.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

This line of posts is in relation to Penguin. He has a extremist approach and I’m trying to point out that there are limits to his stance. He won’t buy digital media but he will use digital tools to buy discs. He is having his cake and eating it. How is that different to what he accuses me of?

It’s just a bit of flippancy on my part. Penguin too likes to preach. He has taken it upon himself to take up the third royal chair in this little community of ours poking the lion whenever he sees fit.

Sorry, but your argument is absurd. Using the internet for shopping purposes is no different than using the telephone before it or even the mail order catalog before that.

The internet is an evolved communication system. We are not discussing how we communicate, but rather what we buy.

Penguin does not excoriate digital customers like you do. He says why he prefers physical media and that's what he buys without exception. That may seem extreme to some, but at least he is being true to his convictions.

You heavily criticize those that buy digital content while buying plenty of it yourself. Thus, the charge of hypocrite is sustained.

As to your addendum: Films are not under any threat; all of that is just your stock and trade bullshit that you make up wholesale and peddle far and wide. Nothing objective supports any shred of this nonsense that you spew.

People using social media and mobile phones to communicate is their choice and they are not harbingers of doom because they chat in a manner that you dislike. Younger people in general, and their usage of mobile devices in particular, irrationally frightens you.

Attention spans are fine for the 10,000th time. The world scientific community has thoroughly researched the matter in multiple studies and reported these facts. You have no evidence with which to refute their findings, and no credentials or standing with which to do so, and no rational human being would accept your paranoid rantings as anything but what they are: The science isn't wrong. You are wrong and your being perpetually wrong is the one consistent thing across all of your posts that have any reference to the future.

[PenguinInfinity]

At it's best the internet provides access to a huge number of resources to people all across the world. I wholeheartedly support that.

At it's worst the internet allows companies to institute absolute control over their properties and allows companies and governments to obtain private information. I absolutely do not support that.

Many great things have been done with the internet and many terrible things have been with the internet. That makes it pretty much just like every tool. I don't hate the internet any more than I hate cars, cameras, axes, ovens, pens, or envelopes. They are all just tools that can be used for good or bad things.

Personally I feel that the internet has done far more good than harm.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

He won’t buy digital media but he will use digital tools to buy discs.

I've made my stance clear on that a few times. Tools are easy to replace. If one of them is taken away someone else can make a functionally identical replacement. The same thing can't happen with art: there is no such thing as a functionally identical replacement for an individual movie, TV show, video game, song, or book.