Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by darthpepsi

It's always the same in Canada, licensing issues. Foreign companies prefer not to deal with it. Our market is also the size of California which doesn't help.

Right. I hope things improve for all you guys. It's bad enough in U.K with Ultraviolet storefront options so weak but we have Netflix, Amazon, Sky, Disney subscription etc..

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys refuse to ignore my logic, we are talking about the Demise of The Disc. Can't you see, Discs are just a means for Storage, doesn't it make sense to just go from Server to Server and keep it all Digital? We are in a Digital World with Cloud Services, like it or not!

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Studios have control over the servers. Customers have control over the discs. That's why discs are a superior option for customers.

You guys are dismal, The Studios can control Discs too, so that's not a good excuse to own Disc. Also Disc gets old fast as soon as a new format comes out...DVD, Blu-ray, and now 4K+. So putting your Collection on a Server you can easily upgrade to the next format.

[wolfpackTri]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are dismal, The Studios can control Discs too, so that's not a good excuse to own Disc. Also Disc gets old fast as soon as a new format comes out...DVD, Blu-ray, and now 4K+. So putting your Collection on a Server you can easily upgrade to the next format.

They will never see the logic behind this. Discs are limited because of storage and the compression algorithm to fit the movie on the disc. Why not give me the ability to download the uncompressed movie if I want? I buy PC games on Steam and I can download the 10-60 GB game and play it and never have to use a disc!

The problem is people are attached to physical objects. They take pride in having shelf after shelf of pieces of plastic. Then, when a new format comes out....you have a shelf of worthless plastic.

Movies are meant to be enjoyed any way possible. Movies are not meant to be kept on a shelf to be stared at or make YouTube videos of collections.

Once Internet speeds get to be 1 GB or more in the US, why would anyone buy a disc? If the studios can make movie buying similar to Steam or EA Origins for PC games, SIGN ME UP!

I sold over 150 Steelbooks and 50 3D movies because I was sick of staring at pieces of metal.

If you love physical objects, you will never go digital. If you love movies and don't care about a case and a disc, go digital.

[mikeinvegas7]

You guys are dismal, The Studios can control Discs too, so that's not a good excuse to own Disc.

I don't think you understand the point people are making when it comes to ownership of the physical disc. Once you actually own the disc, it is yours and no longer the studio's. You can also sell it at some point down the line, which you can't do with a digital film. That's a very fair point.

[crissrudd4554]

I have Netflix and Hulu but I still like to have physical copies. When AC/DC's last CD came out, got it the first day it came out even though I knew I was gonna be throwing it on my iPod and likely not play the CD again. Still I feel better knowing I have the physical copy. If the powers that be should make me lose all my iTunes files and I gotta start from scratch again the CD is right there. I think its a pride thing as well. I feel less of a fan by simply downloading it online rather than purchasing the physical copy. I have all the other ones, why would I go different with this one?? In some cases digital is not always reliable. Not everything on Netflix stays on Netflix. At least if I got the physical copy its there when I want it. As far as physical copies dying out, well I already own most of the movies I'll likely be watching for the rest of my life so in ways it doesn't bother me. Not trying to be a party pooper but not many movies these days catch my attention. The most recent movie I got was Star Wars The Force Awakens and probably the most recent movie I got before that was Harry Potter Deathly Hallows Part 2 so you can see how extensive my tastes have been in recent years. Should physical copies die out, well, if it does it does however should it do so I would give it a few more years. I think DVD alone will be extinct before all physical copies of anything will but thats just me.

[rui no onna]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are dismal, The Studios can control Discs too, so that's not a good excuse to own Disc. Also Disc gets old fast as soon as a new format comes out...DVD, Blu-ray, and now 4K+. So putting your Collection on a Server you can easily upgrade to the next format.

For future released discs and content encryption, sure.

However, if your existing offline Blu-ray player can play all discs you currently own, then nope, studios don't control those anymore. It's not like the studios can just go into your home and take back the discs. Also, first-sale doctrine means you can resell discs should you choose to. Can't do that with digital.

Mind, I'm not against distribution over the internet. I already rip my Blu-rays to a local server and I rarely handle discs aside from the initial rip. I'd be perfectly willing to pay retail disc prices for digital downloads with two important caveats:

1.) Same quality as Blu-ray - pretty much what Kaleidescape is already doing now.

2.) Use of a standard format with no DRM or unobtrusive DRM - e.g. watermarking with my personal info is okay to discourage sharing/piracy but I don't want to be restricted in what devices and software my purchased movie or TV show will play on.

I don't like the current wild west nature of video distribution over the internet. I reckon lack of inter-operability between services is just a barrier to consumer adoption.

My guess, Amazon and iTunes probably have a large marketshare for paid digital video downloads and rentals due to branded hardware (Fire TV, Fire tablets, Apple TV, iPads, iPhones, etc). Problem? iTunes only works with Apple stuff while Amazon Video isn't available on the Apple TV at the moment. No Vudu or any native Ultraviolet apps for the Apple TV and Fire TV, either. Roku is pretty much as close as you get to a universal playback device but of course, Apple has to do its own thing so no iTunes support.

Meanwhile, Netflix works on just about anything and it's cheap provided you're willing to wait a few months to watch new releases. On a side note, availability is kinda why I prefer Disney's Keychest over Ultraviolet - DMA transfers over to iTunes, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Vudu, etc.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by rui no onna

For future released discs and content encryption, sure.

However, if your existing offline Blu-ray player can play all discs you currently own, then nope, studios don't control those anymore. It's not like the studios can just go into your home and take back the discs. Also, first-sale doctrine means you can resell discs should you choose to. Can't do that with digital.

Mind, I'm not against distribution over the internet. I already rip my Blu-rays to a local server and I rarely handle discs aside from the initial rip. I'd be perfectly willing to pay retail disc prices for digital downloads with two important caveats:

1.) Same quality as Blu-ray - pretty much what Kaleidescape is already doing now.

2.) Use of a standard format with no DRM or unobtrusive DRM - e.g. watermarking with my personal info is okay to discourage sharing/piracy but I don't want to be restricted in what devices and software my purchased movie or TV show will play on.

I don't like the current wild west nature of video distribution over the internet. I reckon lack of inter-operability between services is just a barrier to consumer adoption.

My guess, Amazon and iTunes probably have a large marketshare for paid digital video downloads and rentals due to branded hardware (Fire TV, Fire tablets, Apple TV, iPads, iPhones, etc). Problem? iTunes only works with Apple stuff while Amazon Video isn't available on the Apple TV at the moment. No Vudu or any native Ultraviolet apps for the Apple TV and Fire TV, either. Roku is pretty much as close as you get to a universal playback device but of course, Apple has to do its own thing so no iTunes support.

Meanwhile, Netflix works on just about anything and it's cheap provided you're willing to wait a few months to watch new releases. On a side note, availability is kinda why I prefer Disney's Keychest over Ultraviolet - DMA transfers over to iTunes, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Vudu, etc.

All the blurays I have now, I will enjoy for many years to come. Agreed.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by wolfpackTri

They will never see the logic behind this. Discs are limited because of storage and the compression algorithm to fit the movie on the disc. Why not give me the ability to download the uncompressed movie if I want? I buy PC games on Steam and I can download the 10-60 GB game and play it and never have to use a disc!

The problem is people are attached to physical objects. They take pride in having shelf after shelf of pieces of plastic. Then, when a new format comes out....you have a shelf of worthless plastic.

Movies are meant to be enjoyed any way possible. Movies are not meant to be kept on a shelf to be stared at or make YouTube videos of collections.

Once Internet speeds get to be 1 GB or more in the US, why would anyone buy a disc? If the studios can make movie buying similar to Steam or EA Origins for PC games, SIGN ME UP!

I sold over 150 Steelbooks and 50 3D movies because I was sick of staring at pieces of metal.

If you love physical objects, you will never go digital. If you love movies and don't care about a case and a disc, go digital.

Silly argument. I still watch DVD's from 15 years ago on my Bluray player. 4K players (Oppo, yum yum) will still play blurays in the future. How is that a short lived, worthless collection of plastic. Also, many of us like collectors packaging, booklets, artwork etc..
Digital HD is so sterile, it makes me want to puke.

It could also be argued that we are the true film fans. We want to watch a film with the best A/V possible. You guys and your Digital HD are lke supermarket brand cola. Not too bad, but weak as piss compared to the real deal.

Finally, why would anyone buy a disc you say? Same reason they buy them now. All these crapfest blogs and tech sites that live in big city bubbles claimed the same a few year back when iTunes went 1080p. Oh, how I laugh now. (I am a Apple fan by the way lol) I know some people Who use the 720p option because it looks better!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by mikeinvegas7

I don't think you understand the point people are making when it comes to ownership of the physical disc. Once you actually own the disc, it is yours and no longer the studio's. You can also sell it at some point down the line, which you can't do with a digital film. That's a very fair point.

How are the studios controlling my blurays. I can watch them any time I want. Same will be true in ten years, even if new releases are not on Bluray. I have a Oppo player from 2003 that still plays every DVD that I throw at it.

These guys are making reasons up now. The truth is, Digital ownership is shaky ground and I agree with your post 100%

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are dismal, The Studios can control Discs too, so that's not a good excuse to own Disc. Also Disc gets old fast as soon as a new format comes out...DVD, Blu-ray, and now 4K+. So putting your Collection on a Server you can easily upgrade to the next format.

Dismal? We are not the guys joining a Bluray forum to preach about the demise of disc. You are jumping on a bandwagon that does not have a clear path and could go tits-up quite easilly.

[Jumpman]

Back and worth, around and around we go in this thread. Goodness.

Can we all just call a truce and just agree to disagree on this subject?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Back and worth, around and around we go in this thread. Goodness.

Can we all just call a truce and just agree to disagree on this subject?

Yes when Digital HD is dead altogether. Happy to do that then.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes when Digital HD is dead altogether. Happy to do that then.

This is how you get in trouble...with a comment like that.

Dude, it ain't going away. Just like with DVD, Blu, and UHD, Digital HD is going to have a place beside those physical options. This gives the customers a choice of how they want to view things.

It's really that simple. How we consume and view our entertainment is changing daily. We're in a period of time right now where everyone's trying to figure out the best way forward on this subject and there are no easy answers. The answer right now is just let customers choose how they want to view entertainment.

This ain't a bad thing. The reign that physical had at the dawn of the DVD era is over. It still exists and it will continue to exist...just not at the pace and quantity that it once was.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

This is how you get in trouble...with a comment like that.

Dude, it ain't going away. Just like with DVD, Blu, and UHD, Digital HD is going to have a place beside those physical options. This gives the customers a choice of how they want to view things.

It's really that simple. How we consume and view our entertainment is changing daily. We're in a period of time right now where everyone's trying to figure out the best way forward on this subject and there are no easy answers. The answer right now is just let customers choose how they want to view entertainment.

This ain't a bad thing. The reign that physical had at the dawn of the DVD era is over. It still exists and it will continue to exist...just not at the pace and quantity that it once was.

I have no problem with choice. If everything was on physical and digital then digital wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But the studios would prefer to just have digital so as it grows in popularity more and more titles will only be available on digital.

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are dismal, The Studios can control Discs too, so that's not a good excuse to own Disc. Also Disc gets old fast as soon as a new format comes out...DVD, Blu-ray, and now 4K+. So putting your Collection on a Server you can easily upgrade to the next format.

I'm confused by both of these points.

Firstly, how do the studios control any of the discs in our collections? We can play them, sell them, or give them away without any involvement from the studios.

Secondly, how is upgrading digital any easier than upgrading physical? You still have to buy the new version and you can't even get any money for the old version. If you don't care about resale value (which would put it on par with digital in that regard) you can just take all your outdated discs to Goodwill, you may consider them to be "worthless plastic" but other don't.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

This is how you get in trouble...with a comment like that.

Dude, it ain't going away. Just like with DVD, Blu, and UHD, Digital HD is going to have a place beside those physical options. This gives the customers a choice of how they want to view things.

It's really that simple. How we consume and view our entertainment is changing daily. We're in a period of time right now where everyone's trying to figure out the best way forward on this subject and there are no easy answers. The answer right now is just let customers choose how they want to view entertainment.

This ain't a bad thing. The reign that physical had at the dawn of the DVD era is over. It still exists and it will continue to exist...just not at the pace and quantity that it once was.

I'm not in trouble lol.

How do you know that? Digital HD might flatline soon. Many pundits thought iTunes downloads were the last word but look how they are fading away due to subscription. There has to be a market there, it's not a charity. All the time evidence so far points to subscription rather than est. ignore that at your peril.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

I’m loving Netflix more and more. Just finished watching 20 episodes of NARCOS and absolutely loved it! Pablo Escobar was one mean son of a *****!

I read quite a while back that people watch more TV episodes than movies on Netflix now days. I know i'm like that. In the last 5 years Iv'e watched hundreds of TV series and maybe 5 movies, between Netflix and Amazon video. Perhaps this will be the future for those services, as both are making their own original series...and good ones too!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by huskerbear

I read quite a while back that people watch more TV episodes than movies on Netflix now days. I know i'm like that. In the last 5 years Iv'e watched hundreds of TV series and maybe 5 movies, between Netflix and Amazon video. Perhaps this will be the future for those services, as both are making their own original series...and good ones too!

Yes but they won't want to lose grip on movies altogether.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The point is, collecting will die with Bluray. Amazon and Netflix will see to that.

I actually didn't start collecting until Ultraviolet came along. At first I was buying the disc to get the code...then I decided I really didn't want the discs so I just bought codes, and today I mostly buy from the monthly Vudu sales. I have paid full price for digital copies many times too...$20-$30, mostly when the disc, which is sometimes cheaper, doesn't have a digital copy. Am I typical? I have no idea, but I do believe digital will continue to grow. Right now they are just getting people use to it by including a digital copy with a disc but, someday that will go away, and we will all pay full price.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by huskerbear

I actually didn't start collecting until Ultraviolet came along. At first I was buying the disc to get the code...then I decided I really didn't want the discs so I just bought codes, and today I mostly buy from the monthly Vudu sales. I have paid full price for digital copies many times too...$20-$30, mostly when the disc, which is sometimes cheaper, doesn't have a digital copy. Am I typical? I have no idea, but I do believe digital will continue to grow. Right now they are just getting people use to it by including a digital copy with a disc but, someday that will go away, and we will all pay full price.

Exactly, which is why it won't have legs. £7.99 for all you can eat versus full price Digital HD. It isn't going to happen.

As for growth, I think they would have liked to see much better figures than what is being reported. Slower growth is never good this early in a format's life. Especially, When you consider that iTunes, Amazon, Disney are included in that as well. Of course, IMO, they wil use subscription as a false sign of hope for ALL Digital streaming but take those services away and wouldn't it be interesting? Same for Bluray and this horrid digital code trend.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by huskerbear

I actually didn't start collecting until Ultraviolet came along. At first I was buying the disc to get the code...then I decided I really didn't want the discs so I just bought codes, and today I mostly buy from the monthly Vudu sales. I have paid full price for digital copies many times too...$20-$30, mostly when the disc, which is sometimes cheaper, doesn't have a digital copy. Am I typical? I have no idea, but I do believe digital will continue to grow. Right now they are just getting people use to it by including a digital copy with a disc but, someday that will go away, and we will all pay full price.

It's a niche of a niche I think. Same a folk who pay full price for Amazon or iTunes digital copies.