Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[cminer72]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I think there is too much hate in the world, and I'm not a troll I was here long before you. Like bhampton says Merry Christmas. We are all entitled to our views.

Strange you are attacked for pointing out the obvious. I like my disc collections of old tv shows or Marvel movies for example, but I have far more digital copies than physical and I have three or four digital subscriptions to services. And I watch the digital copies if given the choice due to not having to get up and switch discs. Plus most digital is streamed in Dolby Vision, which is not the case with discs. It is less prominent on disc. The bottom line is disc sales are declining. Partly due to people gravitating towards digital, but also due to stores stocking less discs and specialty stores going our of business (due to declining disc sales). For most people, it's cheaper to have a few subscriptions than to buy multiple discs per month. There are many people who won't buy anything until it's dirt cheap on Black Friday. That doesn't help the cause either. Will plastic discs be a cool niche item like Vinyl in the future? Who knows? But right now, disc sales are declining. That is a fact.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cminer72

Strange you are attacked for pointing out the obvious. I like my disc collections of old tv shows or Marvel movies for example, but I have far more digital copies than physical and I have three or four digital subscriptions to services. And I watch the digital copies if given the choice due to not having to get up and switch discs. Plus most digital is streamed in Dolby Vision, which is not the case with discs. It is less prominent on disc. The bottom line is disc sales are declining. Partly due to people gravitating towards digital, but also due to stores stocking less discs and specialty stores going our of business (due to declining disc sales). For most people, it's cheaper to have a few subscriptions than to buy multiple discs per month. There are many people who won't buy anything until it's dirt cheap on Black Friday. That doesn't help the cause either. Will plastic discs be a cool niche item like Vinyl in the future? Who knows? But right now, disc sales are declining. That is a fact.

Digital HD is also dying on its arse. I’m guessing you didn’t know this?

Stores stocking less discs you say? That might be to do with Amazon.

Boutique labels are actually thriving. Online that is.

You are clueless.

[cminer72]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Digital HD is also dying on its arse. I’m guessing you didn’t know this?

Stores stocking less discs you say? That might be to do with Amazon.

Boutique labels are actually thriving. Online that is.

You are clueless.

Don't know why you think digital is dying? It's on the rise and the reason disc sales are declining. You can read many, many articles confirming this trend. When ultraviolet closed, the other services integrated the library. If Vudu closed, it would likely move to MA. The industry is pushing digital (for collectors) and subscriptions for most everyone else. I feared the loss of physical media too at first. But I am starting to appreciate it. Less clutter. less stuff to obsess over. My collection is safe from natural disasters. If there's a fire or something, I buy a streaming device. I got it all back. I'm not clueless. I just have a better grasp on reality.

[cminer72]

I will concede that there are a bazillion dvd players out there. Less Blu Ray players. Discs will not vanish overnight. But digital is the direction we are going. So there's truth to both arguments.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cminer72

Don't know why you think digital is dying? It's on the rise and the reason disc sales are declining. You can read many, many articles confirming this trend. When ultraviolet closed, the other services integrated the library. If Vudu closed, it would likely move to MA. The industry is pushing digital (for collectors) and subscriptions for most everyone else. I feared the loss of physical media too at first. But I am starting to appreciate it. Less clutter. less stuff to obsess over. My collection is safe from natural disasters. If there's a fire or something, I buy a streaming device. I got it all back. I'm not clueless. I just have a better grasp on reality.

I think you need to revise Digital HD sales figures over the last three years and get back to me. The industry knows this, that’s why you don’t hear any hyperbole from them anymore.

It’s all about subscription now.

[cminer72]

The health of physical media overall is also dependent on the support studios and device manufacturers. They withdrew support for 3D and technically, 3D is "dead". However, discs are still being produced for the format for now. At the CES last spring, there were only 3 new Blu-ray players introduced.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cminer72

I will concede that there are a bazillion dvd players out there. Less Blu Ray players. Discs will not vanish overnight. But digital is the direction we are going. So there's truth to both arguments.

Well, there are 100 million PS4’s out there, all capable of Bluray playback. The new console will be too. Considering they are rock solid players, I think we are ok. Thanks for your concern though.

You carry on accepting second rate crap though.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cminer72

The health of physical media overall is also dependent on the support studios and device manufacturers. They withdrew support for 3D and technically, 3D is "dead". However, discs are still being produced for the format for now. At the CES last spring, there were only 3 new Blu-ray players introduced.

Tell me again, how is Ultraviolet doing?

[cminer72]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/08/the-...-13-years.html

Subscription will continue to expand. Digital HD will still allow for sales and rental. Physical media will continue to decline more rapidly. I already said that Ultraviolet ownership was integrated into other providers. So not sure what that has to do with anything. Still have the hundreds of movies I redeemed on Ultraviolet. I lost zero.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cminer72

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/08/the-...-13-years.html

Subscription will continue to expand. Digital HD will still allow for sales and rental. Physical media will continue to decline more rapidly. I already said that Ultraviolet ownership was integrated into other providers. So not sure what that has to do with anything. Still have the hundreds of movies I redeemed on Ultraviolet. I lost zero.

Disc will outlast Digital HD.

Subscription will indeed expand but that’s not really a HT solution now is it? Not with all the exclusives, censoring and removal of titles. It’s a bag of hurt for enthusiasts. I think you are probably just a casual. Go and play Pokemon.

[cminer72]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Disc will outlast Digital HD.

Not according to consumer trends. But believe what you want if it helps you sleep at night.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cminer72

Strange you are attacked for pointing out the obvious. I like my disc collections of old tv shows or Marvel movies for example, but I have far more digital copies than physical and I have three or four digital subscriptions to services. And I watch the digital copies if given the choice due to not having to get up and switch discs. Plus most digital is streamed in Dolby Vision, which is not the case with discs. It is less prominent on disc. The bottom line is disc sales are declining. Partly due to people gravitating towards digital, but also due to stores stocking less discs and specialty stores going our of business (due to declining disc sales). For most people, it's cheaper to have a few subscriptions than to buy multiple discs per month. There are many people who won't buy anything until it's dirt cheap on Black Friday. That doesn't help the cause either. Will plastic discs be a cool niche item like Vinyl in the future? Who knows? But right now, disc sales are declining. That is a fact.

First, there is no need to state the obvious because its, well, f*cking obvious, and that is one of the annoying things about him. The other is that he enjoys being an irritant. He delights in telling us that discs are dead and that no one buys them, which is patently not true, so he is either saying this because he is a colossal idiot or because he wants to be a horse's ass. Actually, he's both.

No one refutes that disc sales are declining. Purchases of video content in general are declining and this has been the case for several years. Digital sales are still growing, but the rate at which they are growing has fallen sharply down to just 6.67% as of Q3 2019. It was 14.43% in 2018.

4K disc sales were seeing robust sales growth these last couple of years, 70% growth in 2018, and that growth rate has also dropped sharply. Neither the growth rate in 4K disc sales, which well exceed that of digital, and the anemic growth rate in digital sales have been enough to reverse the overall decline in purchases. More people are renting instead of buying, period.

Total purchase revenue in 2014: $8.49 billion.
Total purchase revenue in 2015: $7.99 billion.
Total purchase revenue in 2016: $7.50 billion.
Total purchase revenue in 2017: $6.87 billion.
Total purchase revenue in 2018: $6.49 billion.
Total purchase revenue as of Q3 2019: $4.19 billion.

Overall purchases declined 5.47% in 2018; after three quarters of 2019, that decline is 8.66%.

https://www.degonline.org/industry-data/

The best selection and prices of discs are found online; that has also been the case for many years. I have been buying the vast majority of my discs online for a decade now. What stores stock is largely irrelevant and those of us that buy discs mostly do so online.

Discs are a niche market. Multi-channel surround sound home theater systems are a niche market. The majority of the masses spend little on either, settling for $7 per month SVOD services and their TV's built-in speakers.

Niche markets cater to enthusiasts, of which there are plenty, across many categories of merchandise. Those of us that value actually owning what we buy in the best possible quality are well served. We are getting more titles released on disc each year, despite declining sales, which shows that discs are profitable enough of an endeavor for the studios to give us more titles.

[cminer72]

I'm not a casual. I bought my first 3D tv in 2009. I bought my first 4K 3D tv in 2013, before HDR. I bought a 4k player as soon as it was available. I bought a newer tv for HDR and then another one after that. Currently on a Sony OLED. I own 3 different game consoles. Hundreds of games and movies, physical and digital. You are the one who is clueless. I've been on the cutting edge all along. I just face reality. So let's begin again.

[cminer72]

And I have never played Pokémon.

[Vilya]

We play PokeTheBear here in this thread.

[cminer72]

Originally Posted by Vilya

First, there is no need to state the obvious because its, well, f*cking obvious, and that is one of the annoying things about him. The other is that he enjoys being an irritant. He delights in telling us that discs are dead and that no one buys them, which is patently not true, so he is either saying this because he is a colossal idiot or because he wants to be a horse's ass. Actually, he's both.

No one refutes that disc sales are declining. Purchases of video content in general are declining and this has been the case for several years. Digital sales are still growing, but the rate at which they are growing has fallen sharply down into low single digit growth.

4K disc sales were seeing robust sales growth these last couple of years, 70% growth in 2018, and that growth rate has also dropped sharply. Neither the growth rate in 4K disc sales, which well exceed that of digital, and the anemic growth rate in digital sales has been enough to reverse the overall decline in purchases. More people are renting instead of buying, period.

The best selection and prices of discs are found online; that has also been the case for many years. I have been buying the vast majority of my discs online for a decade now. What stores stock is largely irrelevant and those of us that buy discs mostly do so online.

Discs are a niche market. Multi-channel surround sound home theater systems are a niche market. The majority of the masses spend little on either, settling for $7 month SVOD services and their TV's built-in speakers.

Niche markets cater to enthusiasts, of which there are plenty, across many categories of merchandise. Those of us that value actually owning what we buy in the best possible quality are well served. We are getting more titles released on disc each year, despite declining sales, which shows that discs are profitable enough of an endeavor for the studios to give us more titles.

I agree with pretty much all of this. There are others on here distorting facts to make themselves feel better. I still buy discs. I'm just shifting to digital more and more. Digital sales and rentals are different than subscription and they can work in unison with subscription to make more money. It costs the studios very little and allows them to make money on multiple fronts.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I think there is too much hate in the world, and I'm not a troll I was here long before you. Like bhampton says Merry Christmas. We are all entitled to our views.

You are a troll and how long you have plagued this site is irrelevant. You deliberately repeat falsehoods, such as "no one buys discs anymore", to provoke a response and that is precisely what a troll does. You state the obvious like it was your own personal and unique insight with the same intent to annoy.

You are entitled to your opinions; if you want to say that streaming is fantastic, that's just fine, but when you then try to make a comparison to 4K discs when you have never seen one, by your own admission, that is not acceptable. Giving opinions about products that you do not own, have not seen, and that you have no experience with is dishonest.

If you want to predict that discs will one day cease to be made, that's okay, too. You are just one more among many that have been telling us this for years and years. These predictions are not revelations to anyone. When you state this prediction in the past tense as if it has already occurred, well, that is not okay because it is not true and you know it is not true. Willfully and constantly stating untruths solely to provoke a reaction is the textbook behavior of a troll.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cminer72

I agree with pretty much all of this. There are others on here distorting facts to make themselves feel better. I still buy discs. I'm just shifting to digital more and more. Digital sales and rentals are different than subscription and they can work in unison with subscription to make more money. It costs the studios very little and allows them to make money on multiple fronts.

I have slowly begun to redeem the codes that come with my discs as I like having access to my content when I am away from home, but I only purchase content on disc. I feel it is a far better value, with 4K discs especially as I get the 4K disc, the blu-ray, and the digital code all for one price. I get the 4K disc for the best quality presentation, the blu-ray as a back-up, with both discs providing actual unchanging ownership, and the digital code for remote access.

[cminer72]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have slowly begun to redeem the codes that come with my discs as I like having access to my content when I am away from home, but I only purchase content on disc. I feel it is a far better value, with 4K discs especially as I get the 4K disc, the blu-ray, and the digital code all for one price. I get the 4K disc for the best quality presentation, the blu-ray as a back-up, with both discs providing actual unchanging ownership, and the digital code for remote access.

But if there was a catastrophe, you only need to buy a streaming device and have access to all that you lost physically. It is a nice backup. I also used to share access on Vudu when that was a thing. Better than loaning movies. I am also OCD about physical things being perfect. So going digital has relieved a lot of anxiety for me.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cminer72

But if there was a catastrophe, you only need to buy a streaming device and have access to all that you lost physically. It is a nice backup. I also used to share access on Vudu when that was a thing. Better than loaning movies. I am also OCD about physical things being perfect. So going digital has relieved a lot of anxiety for me.

I see digital as a back-up of last resort and there is insurance to mitigate the highly unlikely total loss of physical possessions due to catastrophe. I could also store the secondary blu-ray from a 4K combo pack offsite if I were that concerned about disaster striking, but I am not one to worry about such things as one day my belongings and I will part company no matter what precautions I take.

Digital titles are of lesser quality and they can disappear, whatever the likelihood, and they are subject to censoring, editing, and all other manner of revisionism. I very much like the fact that the content that I buy on disc can not be changed at the whim of whomever. And again, my disc purchase gives me the best of both worlds.