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Old 06-30-2020, 08:45 AM   #821
The Creature The Creature is online now
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I bumped it for you. I presume you're talking about the animated one.
Thanks for that, yes it was the animated one.
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Old 06-30-2020, 10:13 AM   #822
Freakyguy666 Freakyguy666 is online now
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I wish we had more to thank the 3D Titanic for. What I mean by that is, as far as I know this film was the pioneer in the field of the legacy post-conversion, and it's the film that prompted Spielberg to have a go with his dinosaur movie. In total there were five or six(?) properly-done legacy conversions?* When, if things had worked out differently, there could be several dozen or more by now. And, after Judgement Day, I think The Abyss may well have been JC's next effort, which is something I'd love to have seen.

EDIT: I know it's not relevant to discussion about Titanic, but in light of some of the follow-up comments below, I should have specified "live action". I sort of consider legacy CG 3D re-releases not to be in the same category as they were (most of them) fully re-rendered in stereo, and the few cell animated post-conversions are - I assume - far easier to convert than live action due to their vastly reduced amount of detail.
You may include Predator 3d on that “legacy conversion” list. While it’s not top-tier, it improves on the 2D significantly, and unlike Titanic’s pathetic excuse for lack of 3D in certain scenes, it is all 3D.
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:10 PM   #823
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Originally Posted by Freakyguy666 View Post
You may include Predator 3d on that “legacy conversion” list. While it’s not top-tier, it improves on the 2D significantly, and unlike Titanic’s pathetic excuse for lack of 3D in certain scenes, it is all 3D.
That’s a [largely] auto-conversion. So no, not in the same bracket I’d say.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...53&postcount=9
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Old 06-30-2020, 04:33 PM   #824
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That’s a [largely] auto-conversion. So no, not in the same bracket I’d say.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...53&postcount=9
There are automatic processes in all 3D conversions. The difference is the degree to which they are used. Predator 3d qualifies as a legacy conversion that requires manual inputs and costs millions of dollars to implement.

And the results are superior to any auto conversion—and a vast improvement over I, Robot. And as mentioned, 3D is used throughout, unlike Titanic 3D where either due to budget or time or conscious decision-making, elements were left FLAT.
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:14 PM   #825
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There are automatic processes in all 3D conversions. The difference is the degree to which they are used. Predator 3d qualifies as a legacy conversion that requires manual inputs and costs millions of dollars to implement.
Ah Freaky! I do love your black and white view of the world. I like to think that in a parallel universe there’s a version of you arguing that there are manual processes in all auto-conversions so Pred 3D qualifies as an auto-conversion!

I guess the truth is that it’s somewhere in between a proper Conversion Studio effort and a German Auto Conversion. IMHO it’s closer to the latter but you may well argue the opposite.

To my mind, I guess we were referring to efforts that the studio deemed worthy of a theatrical release....but I haven’t seen Pred 3D so I’ll have to defer to yours and others opinions in the Pred 3D thread.

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And the results are superior to any auto conversion—and a vast improvement over I, Robot. And as mentioned, 3D is used throughout, unlike Titanic 3D where either due to budget or time or conscious decision-making, elements were left FLAT.
By flat, do you mean cardboard cutout-esque? Does Pred 3D have greater volume and fewer conversion errors than Titanic in your opinion?
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:00 PM   #826
Freakyguy666 Freakyguy666 is online now
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Ah Freaky! I do love your black and white view of the world. I like to think that in a parallel universe there’s a version of you arguing that there are manual processes in all auto-conversions so Pred 3D qualifies as an auto-conversion!

I guess the truth is that it’s somewhere in between a proper Conversion Studio effort and a German Auto Conversion. IMHO it’s closer to the latter but you may well argue the opposite.

To my mind, I guess we were referring to efforts that the studio deemed worthy of a theatrical release....but I haven’t seen Pred 3D so I’ll have to defer to yours and others opinions in the Pred 3D thread.

By flat, do you mean cardboard cutout-esque? Does Pred 3D have greater volume and fewer conversion errors than Titanic in your opinion?
There are literally million$ of reasons separating the Predator conversion from an “auto-conversion”. I had watched it with much skepticism and was pleasantly surprised. Of course as always it depends on your set-up (screen size, 3d processing, brightness, etc) but it is a substantial improvement over the 2D, especially when the Predator is in “camo” mode.

In titanic, as others have already verified, there are scenes where there was a conscious decision to minimize—if not eliminate—3D, especially in backgrounds. One such example involves the Titanic itself in the background early on in the film.

Watch it with a critical eye and you may find you agree with me more than you care to admit.

That said, I agree that there are degrees of differentiation between Pred 3d’s conversion process and a full-blown “manual” conversion, but keep in mind that a lot more these days is automated in so-called “manual” conversions as well, yet the conversions are SUPERIOR to prior conversions done with more manpower. The point is that a higher manpower-to-automation ratio does not necessarily equate to superior quality. Not anymore at least. I believe you know this.

Last edited by Freakyguy666; 06-30-2020 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 07-01-2020, 12:12 PM   #827
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Originally Posted by Freakyguy666 View Post
That said, I agree that there are degrees of differentiation between Pred 3d’s conversion process and a full-blown “manual” conversion, but keep in mind that a lot more these days is automated in so-called “manual” conversions as well, yet the conversions are SUPERIOR to prior conversions done with more manpower. The point is that a higher manpower-to-automation ratio does not necessarily equate to superior quality. Not anymore at least. I believe you know this.
Well that was my assumption as well but if you look at the cited 'man-hours' to convert movies the trend is upwards not downwards.

Titanic - 14 months x 450 people = 6300 man-hours (man-months?!)
Jurassic Park - 9.5 months x 700 people = 6650 man-months
T2 - 8 Months x 1800 people = 14400 man-months

I, Robot / Predator? - 3 months x 3 people = 9 man-months

Can anyone cite the number of people and length of time to convert a modern movie such as something from the Marvel or Star Wars franchises?

I've no doubt that at somepoint AI will advance to a point that the conversion is automated and the human input is entirely from a creative standpoint. For me, that's what'll revitalize 3D at home again - content at minimal cost.

Last edited by Rickyrockard; 07-01-2020 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:03 PM   #828
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T2 - 8 Months x 1800 people = 14400 man-months



I've no doubt that at somepoint AI will advance to a point that the conversion is automated and the human input is entirely from a creative standpoint. For me, that's what'll revitalize 3D at home again - content at minimal cost.
I mean they could've just gotten Skynet to do it, right???
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Old 07-01-2020, 06:59 PM   #829
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I mean they could've just gotten Skynet to do it, right???
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Old 07-02-2020, 04:17 AM   #830
Freakyguy666 Freakyguy666 is online now
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Originally Posted by Rickyrockard View Post
Well that was my assumption as well but if you look at the cited 'man-hours' to convert movies the trend is upwards not downwards.

Titanic - 14 months x 450 people = 6300 man-hours (man-months?!)
Jurassic Park - 9.5 months x 700 people = 6650 man-months
T2 - 8 Months x 1800 people = 14400 man-months

I, Robot / Predator? - 3 months x 3 people = 9 man-months

Can anyone cite the number of people and length of time to convert a modern movie such as something from the Marvel or Star Wars franchises?

I've no doubt that at somepoint AI will advance to a point that the conversion is automated and the human input is entirely from a creative standpoint. For me, that's what'll revitalize 3D at home again - content at minimal cost.
The relative lack of man-hours in Titanic’s conversion vs the other 2 legacy conversions reinforces the notion that Titanic’s 3D is not as good as hyped by most on this thread.

Wrt improving technology, I recall hearing in the interviews with the 3D studio that handles conversions for MCU they cited advances in technology that allow them to output the conversions much more quickly than when they first started conversions. The conversion timeframe reference was comparing more recent MCU with the very first Avengers.

Last edited by Freakyguy666; 07-02-2020 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 07-02-2020, 08:22 AM   #831
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Originally Posted by Freakyguy666 View Post
The relative lack of man-hours in Titanic’s conversion vs the other 2 legacy conversions reinforces the notion that Titanic’s 3D is not as good as hyped by most on this thread.

Wrt improving technology, I recall hearing in the interviews with the 3D studio that handles conversions for MCU they cited advances in technology that allow them to output the conversions much more quickly than when they first started conversions. The conversion timeframe reference was comparing more recent MCU with the very first Avengers.
I think you really need to get over the fact that many 3D fans (me included) really enjoyed it and thought the 3D enhanced the film.
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Old 07-02-2020, 09:11 AM   #832
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I think you really need to get over the fact that many 3D fans (me included) really enjoyed it and thought the 3D enhanced the film.
I think you really need to get over the fact your enjoyment and an objective measure of the strength of 3D quality are not necessarily proportional.
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Old 07-02-2020, 09:15 AM   #833
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I think you really need to get over the fact your enjoyment and an objective measure of the strength of 3D quality are not necessarily proportional.
All that matters here is that people enjoyed the experience. Period. That’s why we are here, to enjoy 3D. Reading over the last few pages, it seems to personally irritate you that many have really enjoyed this disc. It comes across like you are trying to preach to people who already have a good understanding of 3D and how it works.

Let it go.
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Old 07-02-2020, 09:55 AM   #834
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Great looking disc, great 3D, great movie!
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Old 07-02-2020, 04:20 PM   #835
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Originally Posted by Freakyguy666 View Post
I think you really need to get over the fact your enjoyment and an objective measure of the strength of 3D quality are not necessarily proportional.
Although Alice would disagree, I believe the Duchess may have had a point:

'If everybody minded their own business,' the Duchess said, in a hoarse growl, 'the world would go round a deal faster than it does.'

Certainly the earth isn't going to stop spinning because people have different opinions about the look of a film. In this instance I'm happy with the 3-D effect on display in a movie not originally shot with 3-D in mind. I don't think anyone is handing out prizes for Best Conversion, so the argument is purely academic.

Carry on.
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Old 07-02-2020, 05:46 PM   #836
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Although Alice would disagree, I believe the Duchess may have had a point:

'If everybody minded their own business,' the Duchess said, in a hoarse growl, 'the world would go round a deal faster than it does.'

Certainly the earth isn't going to stop spinning because people have different opinions about the look of a film. In this instance I'm happy with the 3-D effect on display in a movie not originally shot with 3-D in mind. I don't think anyone is handing out prizes for Best Conversion, so the argument is purely academic.

Carry on.
Thanks for reinforcing precisely my thoughts.
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Old 07-02-2020, 05:49 PM   #837
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All that matters here is that people enjoyed the experience. Period. That’s why we are here, to enjoy 3D. Reading over the last few pages, it seems to personally irritate you that many have really enjoyed this disc. It comes across like you are trying to preach to people who already have a good understanding of 3D and how it works.

Let it go.
Since you’ve clearly failed to comprehend the situation, I’ll clarify it:

If given a choice between titanic in 2D, 4k, hdr, or 3D, I would choose the 3D every time. It is a very good conversion for the most part. I enjoy many of the scenes within it.

But is it top tier 3D like many have tried to suggest? Absolutely not.

Cheers!
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Old 07-02-2020, 06:43 PM   #838
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Enough repetitive bickering please.
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