Dolby Atmos coming soon for home use

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by kenoh

So those extra wide and front heights Denon, Onkyo and Marantz advertises can be utilized discretely on upcoming Atmos supported content?

The height positions from DTS Neo:X and Prologic IIz are "supported" though on-ceiling surrounds are still recommended for the best reproduction of top effects.

Wide surrounds were fully implemented in cinema Atmos systems and are again utilized in the at-home version.

This is a very, very preliminary and basic diagram that does not comport to a normal room layout, so don't go poking holes in the walls and ceilings just yet.

Dolby is probably scrambling with white papers since a lot of questions were swirling around Atmos' debut.

Another thing worth mentioning is that ceiling surrounds should have a sound dispersion pattern greater than 90 degrees x 90 degrees, if possible. 8 foot and higher ceilings are highly recommended for the most effective 3D immersion.

[BozQ]

Thanks for the white paper! But why does it support only one subwoofer? Wasn't there a recent demo by Dolby using two subs?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by BozQ

Thanks for the white paper! But why does it support only one subwoofer? Wasn't there a recent demo by Dolby using two subs?

No problem!

There has always been only one Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel ever since the beginning of multi-channel digital audio soundtracks. That is carried over to Atmos as well; just one channel of lower bass frequencies so as not to overload the other speakers in case they could not handle large spikes of deep bass. That particular channel also has a -10 dB headroom padding beyond any of the other channels to help eliminate the potential for digital clipping.

The .1 designation in 5.1 or 7.1 or 24.1.10 always signifies that single LFE output channel.

Any other subwoofer outputs are created by way of digital bass management processing within the receiver or pre-amp's software and usually contain mono summed bass from all the main channels mixed with the LFE channel (when speaker settings are set to SMALL).

Cinema Atmos does have two optional sub outputs that specifically route low bass from the surround speakers using bass management. There is also another optional sub output for summed bass from all the other speakers... for a total of four.

There has been no mention made as to whether home Atmos capable units will ever have the option of at least surround sub outputs besides the standard LFE output (with possible summed bass from the channel bed and objects if speakers are set to SMALL). It may be up to the individual manufacturers to decide on that feature. It would definitely be a nice feature to have separate surround speaker bass management just like in the theater, so the "weight" of a sound object with low bass can transfer from one part of the room to another when they pan the object through 3D space.

[BozQ]

Ah okay. I think I understand.
The screen sub is the active subwoofer, with its own dedicated LFE channel. While the optional surround subs are passive, bass management for all the surround speakers. Have I got that right?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by BozQ

Ah okay. I think I understand.
The screen sub is the active subwoofer, with its own dedicated LFE channel. While the optional surround subs are passive, bass management for all the surround speakers. Have I got that right?

There are multiple ways to handle digital bass management of the various speaker groups between the cinema and the home that are independent of whatever content is contained in the LFE channel.

Each sub is still "active." A "passive" sub, as you put it, might be something more along the lines of a master/slave configuration of multiple subs, where one receives a mono LFE channel + summed bass signal from all the other channels and then you route that same signal through the slave output to another sub or two (or three, etc.) in a daisy-chain. Each sub doesn't have to have a separate sub output from the receiver or pre-amp because they're all receiving the exact same bass signal, so they only need one cord from the receiver or pre-amp.

Dolby Atmos introduced the idea of surround "channel" (I put channel in quotes because the only channels in Atmos are 7.1 to 9.1 channel beds, the rest of the speaker outputs are derived from positional instructions contained in metadata for each sound object) sub outputs that have isolated, routed bass content (via bass management settings) from only those "channels." The front wall speakers' low bass content is routed to their own sub output. This is due to the fact that surround speaker content, thanks to sound objects, can be full frequency. This could potentially cause an overload of bass frequencies if it was all summed to one mono sub output combined with the LFE channel content. Better to separate the hemispheres of the auditorium and give them their own subwoofer content.

Some manufacturers may think that a single mono subwoofer signal (possibly split to multiple jacks) is good enough for home theater use, and others may take Dolby's approach to splitting the front and surround bass to separate outputs, especially with processors that allow for the entire 24.1.10 configuration.

Clear as mud?

[BozQ]

It will take me some time. But I think I'm getting it. Especially when you mentioned that each object allows full frequency range.

From the way you describe it, 7.2.4 would be an ideal configuration for me. One sub for the front, one sub for the surrounds.

Looking forward to the instruction manuals for the upcoming receivers.

Truth is, I've been using the Logitech Z5500 hooked up to my PS3 for my Blu-rays. So my exposure to an actual receiver has been very limited. For the past few years, I've been very reluctant to invest in a proper HTS with lossless 7.1 setup because of space constraints in my room and the cost. But I'll be moving to a new house with my wife soon and with this, I'll gladly drop the money for a Dolby Atmos HTS. Obviously, there's still a lot I need to learn and research before I really decide on which configuration and system to get. But for now, I'm aiming for 7.2.4, with Atmos enabled speakers. I don't think I'm crazy enough to fix in-ceiling speakers myself. Heh.

[BozQ]

A thought ran into my head. It would be interesting to see if the upcoming "IMAX" version of Star Trek Into Darkness Blu-ray's Dolby TrueHD 7.1 soundtrack has a larger file than the original release. I'm secretly hoping they sneak in the Atmos track in there.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by BozQ

A thought ran into my head. It would be interesting to see if the upcoming "IMAX" version of Star Trek Into Darkness Blu-ray's Dolby TrueHD 7.1 soundtrack has a larger file than the original release. I'm secretly hoping they sneak in the Atmos track in there.

Me too! And hopefully Warner announces a sort of "deluxe" edition for Gravity (as they did with Argo) with Atmos soon (for the holidays maybe).

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by samlop10

Me too! And hopefully Warner announces a sort of "deluxe" edition for Gravity (as they did with Argo) with Atmos soon (for the holidays maybe).

We should know soon enough. Perhaps even as early as next week.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by BozQ

It will take me some time. But I think I'm getting it. Especially when you mentioned that each object allows full frequency range.

From the way you describe it, 7.2.4 would be an ideal configuration for me. One sub for the front, one sub for the surrounds.

Looking forward to the instruction manuals for the upcoming receivers.

Truth is, I've been using the Logitech Z5500 hooked up to my PS3 for my Blu-rays. So my exposure to an actual receiver has been very limited. For the past few years, I've been very reluctant to invest in a proper HTS with lossless 7.1 setup because of space constraints in my room and the cost. But I'll be moving to a new house with my wife soon and with this, I'll gladly drop the money for a Dolby Atmos HTS. Obviously, there's still a lot I need to learn and research before I really decide on which configuration and system to get. But for now, I'm aiming for 7.2.4, with Atmos enabled speakers. I don't think I'm crazy enough to fix in-ceiling speakers myself. Heh.

Definitely take a listen to those "enabled" speakers before deciding on them. Hopefully, some of the better electronics stores will have Atmos setups that will let you hear the difference between real ceiling and Atmos speakers.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Wide surrounds were fully implemented in cinema Atmos systems and are again utilized in the at-home version.

There's no such thing unless you're referring to the new surrounds that are placed closer to the front of the screen than traditional surrounds, which normally start about 1/3rd of the way back in most theaters.

But those aren't "wide" surrounds. Wides imply positions way beyond the edges of the screen. Obviously that's not possible in a theatre unless the screen is unnaturally small. If they should be called anything, it would be front surrounds, but Dolby doesn't give them a special name.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

There's no such thing unless you're referring to the new surrounds that are placed closer to the front of the screen than traditional surrounds, which normally start about 1/3rd of the way back in most theaters.

But those aren't "wide" surrounds. Wides imply positions way beyond the edges of the screen. Obviously that's not possible in a theatre unless the screen is unnaturally small. If they should be called anything, it would be front surrounds, but Dolby doesn't give them a special name.

A game of semantics. They're speakers that fill in the sonic gap between the traditional side surround positions and the behind the screen speakers.

Dolby's white papers call them front side surround loudspeakers and they're normally aimed towards the MLP like front wides in home theaters previously.

[Penton-Man]

This thread certainly has a lot of talking points. Are any of the Atmos evangelists here planning on stepping up and starting a User’s thread for when product actually becomes available? For I hope this endeavor doesn’t turn out to be another all talk and no action (spending $$) type thing.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

There will certainly be little action if the studios don't step up and produce the Blu-ray and 4k Blu-ray content (both new and fully remixed catalog titles) for Atmos equipment.

Then all this time, trouble, and expense will have been for nothing.

Is Sony going to play ball?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

...Is Sony going to play ball?

Well, I know of one executive at Sony who is real good at “taking the ball and running with it”… http://www.cinemalowdown.com/2012/11...exclusive.html

[FilmFreakosaurus]

That doesn't make me feel very encouraged.

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Just spent a week straight building my buddies home theater with another week straight plus more owrk after that to go. Today is the day most of the cables arrive. The rest should be here tomorrow. Now I get to work on wiring this room for 9.5.4 surround sound. Figured we'd "future-proof" as much as we could think out. There will be a bi-amped front stage, front, side and rear surrounds, 2 sub locations in the front, 2 in the rear, hook-up for butt-kickers and finally front and rear Atmos ceiling speakers. And we've never even seen a film in Atmos yet!

If only the D-Box guys would get their heads out of their butts and produce better, cheaper and easier to use home equipment. Then we'd have it all!

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

If only the D-Box guys would get their heads out of their butts and produce better, cheaper and easier to use home equipment. Then we'd have it all!

D-Box has been dead for years! D-Box is just another stupid gimmick and useless feature, that has become practically nonexistent (like BD-Live). Approximately 99.9 % of home theaters owners, are not even equipped with D-Box! I wouldn't install D-Box in my home theater, if somebody offered to give it to me.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

Just spent a week straight building my buddies home theater with another week straight plus more owrk after that to go. Today is the day most of the cables arrive. The rest should be here tomorrow. Now I get to work on wiring this room for 9.5.4 surround sound. Figured we'd "future-proof" as much as we could think out. There will be a bi-amped front stage, front, side and rear surrounds, 2 sub locations in the front, 2 in the rear, hook-up for butt-kickers and finally front and rear Atmos ceiling speakers. And we've never even seen a film in Atmos yet!

If only the D-Box guys would get their heads out of their butts and produce better, cheaper and easier to use home equipment. Then we'd have it all!

Is the ceiling around 8 feet tall? If so, keep the side and rear speakers at no more than one foot up from the listener's ears to better separate the ceiling and main level surrounds.

If you're wiring for 9 mains in a Dolby Atmos layout, keep in mind that the "wides" are actually front side surrounds angled towards the MLP. The positioning is not the same as in DTS Neo: X and older Dolby ProLogic IIz post processing modes. That's why Dolby Surround upmixing doesn't output signal to the new "wides." 9.1.2 and 9.1.4 configurations give you a basic side wall pan-through array.

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by slimdude

D-Box has been dead for years! D-Box is just another stupid gimmick and useless feature, that has become practically nonexistent (like BD-Live). Approximately 99.9 % of home theaters owners, are not even equipped with D-Box! I wouldn't install D-Box in my home theater, if somebody offered to give it to me.

How can something be "dead for years" when it's never been alive? D-Box is uber elitist in their pricing so of course 99.9% of HT owners don't have it. Good work on that approximation. I'd say that 99.999999999999999999% of HT owners haven't even HEARD of D-Box. You need tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear, subscriptions and so on to own it.

D-Box, however, is NOT another stupid gimmick and useless feature like BD-Live. It seems pretty evident you have no clue just what D-Box is.

If the cost per chair was $500 plus the price of the chair, the controller another $500 using HDMI and came with full support not some expensive yearly subscription and you could get the same quality experience in home that you can get in theater (which should actually be better since you can properly isolate your feet) this HT would be equipped with at least 3 D-Box seats.

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Is the ceiling around 8 feet tall? If so, keep the side and rear speakers at no more than one foot up from the listener's ears to better separate the ceiling and main level surrounds.

If you're wiring for 9 mains in a Dolby Atmos layout, keep in mind that the "wides" are actually front side surrounds angled towards the MLP. The positioning is not the same as in DTS Neo: X and older Dolby ProLogic IIz post processing modes. That's why Dolby Surround upmixing doesn't output signal to the new "wides." 9.1.2 and 9.1.4 configurations give you a basic side wall pan-through array.

We are wiring for any possible future consideration we can currently think of. Trying to cram any more speakers into the room would just be placing speakers on top of speakers. There is the space for a conceivable front-side stage along with the side surrounds and rears, plus a rear center and 4 ceiling speakers. Putting wiring in now is cheaper and easier than trying to retrofit things in the future. At present it will only be a 7.1 set-up.